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-   -   What are the use of pepper spray procedures? (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720383)

montananshelby 11-05-2019 02:52 PM

What are the use of pepper spray procedures?
 
Hey, WA CCO. Want to share the use of pepper spray procedures with us? Not the policy that says it's okay, but the procedures. I'd really love to see where it says it's fine to poison everyone in the vicinity in an indoor setting with high grade OC that's banned by many international bodies, and also where it doesn't say how you then give medical attention to poisoned inmates to prevent permanent damage to the eyes and skin.

Don't bother with the explanation of how it's a minimal use of force, officer safety, prevention of a riot, etc. I've heard it all before regarding riot cops in the street, and none of that will hold up in court to excuse mass punishment for the offenses of a few individuals, as well as cruel and unusual punishment due to the high concentration, indoor use, and lack of medical attention.

You seem to have an answer for everything, let's see the procedure.

GingerM 11-06-2019 06:43 AM

Shelby, it sounds like you've had a distressing event happen to your loved one. It might be helpful to know what the circumstances were/are.

I'd also like to gently point out that PTO's posting guidelines are very clear:
Quote:

Police/Correctional Officer Bashing
While we encourage full disclosure, investigation and the sharing of relevant information relating to abuses by institutional staff (management, guards, jailers, CO’s,etc), blatant and unprovoked bashing of these people is not allowed. Please also refrain from derogatory name calling.
It doesn't read entirely as if you're CO bashing; to me it reads more that you're extremely frustrated and angry. I'd like to point out that WA_CCO has been nothing but helpful in posting here, and I think we'd lose a very valuable asset were they to stop posting due to hostile interactions with other members.

That all said, I don't know what the "rules" are for the use of Pepper Spray, but believe it is up to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene. The spray is dyed hunter orange to allow everyone (inmates and CO's alike) to get medical attention if they've been hit.

No, it's not good for a person to be hit with it. Yes, they use a higher grade than is available to the public (what's available to the public is also not dyed orange). This is still preferable to someone dying or getting maimed in the fracas, which is how it used to be before the advent of pepper spray. The CO's have to have tried alternate means of de-escalating the situation prior to reaching for the spray. This much I know. And after, all people in the vicinity who have either been hit by it or are experiencing ill effects are supposed to get seen by medical to address the problem. If medical is refusing to see someone to either decontaminate or address physical duress (like breathing difficulties), then that falls to medical.

Personally, I would much rather have CO's armed with pepper spray than armed with guns again, like it was in the old days. Both for the bystander inmates and for the CO's. Is it humane? Well, not really, no. Is it better than killing someone? Yes.

I do hope WA_CCO will see and answer your question. It is good information to have, especially for new people entering the system, so that their loved ones on the outside can let them know what to look out for.

Kimimi 11-06-2019 09:34 AM

In Oregon they bust out the spray whenever and wherever they like. I remember many times my boyfriend would get a face full of floating in the air mace just being in the room or even out on the track where another inmate was sprayed. They can send you all kinds of procedures that are on the books but believe me (an unashamed CO basher) they do what they want. I hope your loved one doesn’t have much time to do in our very broken system.

studebaker71 11-06-2019 09:56 AM

In California they spray in the area around the issue. if they have a problem getting to the issue I would think they spray on the way too hahah My girl has had to mop up pepper spray many times while working in Chowchilla. It's what they have and they use it. Personally I would rather they spray the crap out of everyone than tackle and beat them to death.

montananshelby 11-08-2019 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimimi (Post 7800534)
In Oregon they bust out the spray whenever and wherever they like. I remember many times my boyfriend would get a face full of floating in the air mace just being in the room or even out on the track where another inmate was sprayed. They can send you all kinds of procedures that are on the books but believe me (an unashamed CO basher) they do what they want. I hope your loved one doesn’t have much time to do in our very broken system.

I would have loved to share my reply, Kimimi, but fbopnomore, a former inmate themself, deleted it because it "bashed CO's and moderators." Pitiful that they willing to prioritize so-called civility in speech over defending our loved ones from torture with chemical weapons. It's almost like someone is trying to brainwash us all into believing obedience to hierarchy is more important than actual human rights. Hmmm....I wonder who else does that?

montananshelby 11-08-2019 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studebaker71 (Post 7800539)
In California they spray in the area around the issue. if they have a problem getting to the issue I would think they spray on the way too hahah My girl has had to mop up pepper spray many times while working in Chowchilla. It's what they have and they use it. Personally I would rather they spray the crap out of everyone than tackle and beat them to death.

Pepper spray kills too, just like every other so-called less lethal weapon that cops and CO's are given. I would have loved to share the research with you, but the moderators think otherwise and have started deleting my posts. Having to mop up pepper spray is bullcrap. It's a chemical weapon banned by many international bodies as torture, especially when used on captive victims. And contrary to what the WA DOC tells me that it's been "used forever," they just got it in 2011 after a guard was killed. It doesn't have to be this way. They will use and abuse whatever tools we allow them to have. And make no mistake, we as voters and citizens allow it.

Ms Sunny 11-08-2019 05:47 AM

I’ve been sprayed in the eyes. Miserable as hell, ugly and disabling. The dust seems to last forever. I’m not asthmatic or compromises.
I’ve also seen certain drugs put both staff and inmate lives in immediate danger, or someone’s teeth from a slash on their face. Some drugs are resistant to sprays, so more dispersal. If someone is running at your loved one or me with a weapon, or just a sly gang hit, and the situation escalates, gas is non- lethal.
If gas can get control, I’d rather live through that and have all non involved drop to the floor, and the situation controlled. Sometimes a necessary evil exists for a reason. I’m speaking of NY. We also have decontamination protocols for staff and inmates.
Otherwise, there is chaos and we all suffer, especially our families on the outside who will never understand how a can lid can kill, and paper can be deadly.

And I do understand the frustrations of family. But sometimes OC saved your loved ones life when a guy got a razor.
We all deserve safety.

GingerM 11-08-2019 06:23 AM

Shelby, you have now bashed CO's, whose job it is to keep your loved one safe (read: alive), multiple moderators on this board, and told one moderator that prior time spent behind the fence somehow makes them a lesser human. This is unacceptable behavior.

This post is now being closed. The information will be available to be seen, but I will not allow the hatred you seem to feel towards anyone who doesn't completely agree with you to continue. This site is for people to support each other under very trying circumstances, not to create more distress than already exists during such times.

GingerM 11-10-2019 07:13 PM

This thread has been reopened after a "cooling off" period. PTO welcomes genuine respectful discussions. Please mind your manners if you plan on participating in this conversation.

That said, I closed this thread the morning before I was on my way to visit a friend of mine on the inside.

During visitation I asked my friend if he would prefer:

1) CO's have no weapons, to include Pepper spray
2) CO's have only Pepper spray
3) CO's go back to the bad old days of carrying firearms and batons.

My friend said he didn't like any of those options, but if he had to pick one, he guessed he'd go with option 2 - and he's been caught in the crossfire before.

I pass this along only so that people might hear the opinion of someone still inside the system. He doesn't like it, but he considers it a lesser evil than unarmed CO's because he's seen things get very out of control, and he knows that sometimes you really do need stopping power. I asked him if he'd rather see the CO's carrying tasers instead of Pepper spray and he said "No. Too easy to hit the wrong person or cause a heart attack."

For what it's worth...


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