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-   -   POLL: Drug cases should be dealt with by? (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33160)

joeslilbaby 11-12-2003 03:20 AM

POLL: Drug cases should be dealt with by?
 
I know a ton of other things would consider each case different, but drug charges in general are what I am referring to here..
Is prison the answer for the people who get caught up in an addiction?
California has new laws for drug cases to go to rehab's insteed.... what do you think?

toi_ama 11-12-2003 09:13 AM

Well, I've been in recovery for over 18 years and I've seen a lot. While rehab sounds like a great idea, it's really not all that great. A person facing prison is going to choose rehab, insist they want it, and complain they don't get it, of course, but it's not very effective in the long run. What you end up with is an educated alcoholic/addict who still drinks and/or uses. That's why they don't institute rehab instead of prison or jail. It's a waste of money. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but I'm just speaking the truth. If a person doesn't desperately want to stop drinking and/or using, they're not going to no matter what. You have to hit bottom. People who go to prison are doing a version of what every drunk does when they're puking their guts up------"Oh please God, if you make this stop, I swear I'll never do it again". And then as soon as we know we'll live, we're off and running for the next one. Same with every addict who OD's and survives or has a bad trip and survives. As soon as it's over, the disease tells us that it really wasn't so bad and that we can drink and use and control it so we won't screw up the next time.

If someone truly wants to get into recovery, every prison I know of allows the 12 step programs to come in, and it's the 12 step programs that are proven to be the one most effective means of getting into recovery and successfully staying in recovery. Therefore, there IS the best kind of help already available to them and for free----nobody pays to get it and the taxpayers don't pay for it. Therefore, I have to say that I'm not for mandated rehab. The best rehab there is is hitting a bottom so darned hard that you'll do anything to stop living like that. I've seen people go through things that I think absolutely MUST be their bottom, only to see them go back out. But for a lot of people, prison can be what saves their lives.

joeslilbaby 11-12-2003 11:37 AM

I totally agree, It is just that, say a young dumb kid gets caught dealing and they throw this kid in a place with murders, rapists, it doesn't seem right... u know?

toi_ama 11-12-2003 04:05 PM

No, it doesn't seem right, but usually they do have somewhere to put young first offenders. Even if they don't, they usually don't actually throw them in prison on a true first offense-----there's usually a previous history of offenses before they really throw the book at them. Then they finally decide they need to learn a lesson they're not heeding any other way.

joeslilbaby 11-13-2003 12:49 PM

Why can't Texas follow in California's footsteps??

marjohar 11-15-2003 12:49 AM

Toi You are absolutely correct. My husband was picked up by the Feds they put him in a rehab before sentencing , done good was going to get to self surrender all he had to do was stay clean. Call PO once a week and do random drops when he was told too. Within 2 mos. he wasn't calling no more and dropped dirty 2 times before he quit calling in. Needless to say the Federal Marshalls picked him up as soon as they found him. He has now been in for 3 1/2 years and has been clean the whole time still having 2 years to go. Prison saved his life and I know he is done with the drugs as am I. I also quit right after he went in. They have to want to quit. The sentences are way to harsh but sometimes Prison is all that can make them quit. Prison or Death.

new4az 11-15-2003 05:06 AM

Sorry folks ... when I was inside the #1 thing to bring a guy back in for parole violation was drugs and or alcohol use ... and almost all had been thru a rehab 'program' ... rehab is a waste of time and money unless the person is absolutely begging to be there AND has decided that EVERYTHING else in their lives is more important than their own pleasure. Addiction is about self-gratification. It is driven by the CHOICE to please yourself over doing what you know is right.

I've been inside ... and VERY FEW people are there for a true first offense ... I fight my addiction everyday ... and what keeps me fighting is the internal drive not to hurt the ones I love. It is my choice to put them above my own pleasure. An addiction is a two part problem. Once the chemical side is broken, then the mental habit side has to be maintained. If satisfying their addiction is more important than other aspects of their lives, then an addict will re-offend. All the mandatory/court ordered rehab in the world won't work until they make the mental decision to prioritize ALL others ahead of their own pleasure. Using is a choice.

LadyX 11-15-2003 06:19 AM

I believe there needs to be a system where drug offenders are in a continous treatment program, seperated from violent offenders. But there are some drugs that should be treated as alcohol, and regulated, such as marijuana...but that's a whole other subject. There are far too many people in prison who are there because of a minor possesion charge and a violation of probation.

joeslilbaby 11-18-2003 09:58 PM

anyone else care to tell their opinions?

Splooofy 11-19-2003 03:07 AM

My son Has been in and out of Rehabs since the age of 14. He is now 23 and in prison. The Rehabs were a joke. He called then Camp Snoopy. Plus he wasn't ready to quit so nothing in the world would have helped him. Since his age of 14 he has been in Juv camps, Juv Hall, Charter Rehab, A half way house, Jail and now Prison. The rehabs often don't provide enough time for the drug to get completly out of their system. A 2 year sentance in Prison has. I have offered bribes to get my son to quit using, pleaded with him, done intervention and the bottom line is that it won't work until he is ready. Just when I think he has hit bottom he is back to shooting up. It tears the hell out of a family to watch this happen to a son, brother, grandson.......but I now know that he has to do it for himself. I have decided to love him unconditionally, but I don't have to like him nor do I have to accept his behavior. I have also recconed with the fact that he will either die from this addiction or the will be in and out of prison for the rest of his life. I just cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Best to all! Julie

joeslilbaby 11-19-2003 10:01 PM

It is soooooooooo hard, Just keep on loving him...

cwmram 12-14-2003 09:33 PM

There is nothing easy about this disease (drug addiction). Even if you wanna quit, usually you are at the point that you can't, really and truely can't put the dope down. Rock bottom was looking at the rest of my life without my love. My husband is the best father and husband that you could ever hope to meet, but the fact of the matter is, he would be dead right now if it weren't for going to prison and looking at the time that he is. The time we have left, whether it be behind the walls or outside the walls, we will remain clean and true to each other, talk about our struggles. My best friend was taken away from me, but not forever. I know this time he will come home drug-free and he will NEVER use again. So, do I want him to be in prison, NO NO NO NO NO!! Would rehab helped us? NOPE been there - done that!! I will be praying for you all - cuz the life after the drugs is almost as hard sometimes as the life during (just cuz ya didn't care as much during) Pray!!! Blessings to all!

Rebecca:cuffs:

vickieleigh2 12-16-2003 11:59 PM

I do believe in drug rehab, but I think it should be voluntary. I don't think that if you force it on someone, for instance, I have a sister with three children, I know she loves them or should I say the real her loves them, I have begged her to go to rehab, she said rehab is for quitters. She thought that was real funny. On the other hand, when my fiancee was busted, he was taken to county jail and was there for two weeks. He was as sick as anyone I had ever seen. Did they do anything to help him. NO. He was withdrawing from pain pills and cocaine. and when he got out. He stayed sick for a very long time. very sick. But did he once try to get anything? no. he toughed it out. I was worried about him because of his age and health.. I heard that going through withdraw could kill you. Don't know how true that is. but it scared me to death. He was offered things by people who thought they were doing him a favor, and he turned it down. He said that it wasn't worth the chance of loosing the time he had with us. and that drugs are nothing but a lie. and that anyone who had quit doing them would know exactly what he was talking about. He is the gently giant as I call him. And I think that if he had been given the chance to go to rehab instead of prison, he would have taken full advantage of it. But since it wasn't, he says he will use his time for education. and to improve his health. exercising and that sort of thing. He always sees the good in everything. Now you take some young person, who dosen't see things the same way, and you would probably not have the same outcome. So I see it differently, I think that an older person with no record and this being their first offense, and not a violent person, should have the opportunity to go to rehab instead of prison. they do profiles of people all the time through the investigative process. and they seem to be right on the money alot of times. so I think there should be a process to it, and not just let anyone in who dosen't take it seriously, but I think it would be a good thing. The prison systems are grosly overcrowded, and the vast majority are in for drug charges. So instead of spending sooo much of taxpayers money to keep someone in prison, I think that some kind of drug program would be good. He is supposed to get into one,and that is supposidly gonna take time off his sentence. I HOPE SO!!!!

BundySupporter 12-28-2003 10:21 PM

Well, my boyfriend of 3 years just got sentenced to a Substance Abuse Program for 16 months. He is going in for Felony Herion Possession, and Resisting A Peace Officer. He has been trying to kick the habit for many years. He went to prison for 4 years for drugs before I met him. When I met him he was clean and sober for a while, but when things didn't go how he wanted them to he fell of the wagon. He would rent hotel rooms for 2 or 3 days at a time and shoot up. I had no idea what was going on for a long time. You would have never expected him to have this dark secret I guess you could call it. The man was a complete health nut. He would work out almost everyday, and eat extremely healthy. He was constantly busy doing something positive. We even recently bought a house together, and he was excepted to a Heavy Equipment Operating School. To know him is to love him. One day he went to an NA meeting in a foul meeting, and met someone with a connection to herion and coke. He turned into Dr Jekyl or Hyde, and rented a hotel in a town nearby and shoot up until the manager of the hotel called the cops because he wouldn't come out. They found needles and herion, and he was charged with resisting an officer because the had to bust down the door to get him out. Anyway, he has been sentenced for drug treatment. Which he says he truely wants to get better, and has for a very long time. Hopefully he wont become just an educated addict. He wants to recover, and I hope and pray he does. Drug abuse breaks my heart, and to be the onlooker in the situation killed me . I tried everything I could to help. i even cut up his credit card and tore up his checkbook so he couldn't dodrugsfora while. He was the type that would be drug free for months and then all of a sudden bam he was gone. Drugs have a powerful affect over people, and I read that 75% of all crimes are committed while under the influence. I admit I was in rehab for a while, and the first thing I did whrn I graduated from it was come out and get high. Though I have been clean for almost 2 and half years the act of going to the rehab didn,t magically make me sober, but I did learn things that helped me in the long run when I finally decided to strighten up. I think just about everyone has some type of addiction whether it be fast cars, caffeine, smoking, etc. Just some addictions are classifed as illegal. Anyway, so I just rambled on for so long. The person has to make the choice of when, where, and why they want to kick the habit I guess.

AngelFaceAlbion 01-03-2004 11:35 PM

Like my fiance says..being in jail/prison isn't going to help..it's just going to make it worse and want that person to rebel worse once they get out. In post 'down state' prisons in PA (im not sure about other states) you can get more drugs than you could on the streets. I mean how the heck is that suppose to help? its not! My fiance tried to get into NA and the DOC won't let him because he's 'not sentenced yet', is what they tell him. They're are denying him self help. How are people spose to help themselves,when they are denied it..grr..i REALLY hate the government..

~*Angel*~

veronica cole 01-04-2004 12:40 AM

drug war
 
I believe that the system needs to treat addicts as addicts.try to help them...m(US)...maybe just maybe there will be one that plants a seed in the back of the head and makes a person desire to better themselves etc.I know many times I got locked up for "Possession" and it DID NOTHING for me but make me angry being in withdrawl w/ NO MEDICAL ATTENTION>>>>>>

cwmram 01-04-2004 01:05 AM

Yes as it is true that there are as much access to substances in prison as there are in the streets......and it comes back to whether or not someone wants to remain drug-free. My husband has spent 15 months in jail/prison on drug charges and was very strung out when he got locked up......spent quite a bit of time doing thru the withdrawls. Yet, he has had the opportunity on several occasions to use and he always turns them down, even when things aren't going his way and when he is sad and stressed, whatever the case may be. He said to me the other day had he not spent the time that he has locked up he wouldn't have been able to do it. He has made the consious decision to stay clean and come home. No there aren't enough drug intervention and counseling programs in or out of prison, but.........


becki

lunachild 01-04-2004 12:54 PM

I am glad I looked at this thread. I am kinda naive here. More than a little. I was reading all your posts with great interest.

My J is doing 18 months in state for screwing up on probation so much that the judge and his probation officer said well we'll see if this works. They got him at my house after he absconded to another state and came back. He is doing 18 to 36 for retail theft(which is all behind drugs). But the absconding and being hot got him state time this time.

It all started when he was nine. He has been in every rehab, mental health facility, juvenile, two stints in Vision Quest, county and now state. Duh, there is something here somewhere someone missed. He really actually doesn't know himself. He asked me that Christmas Day when I went to see him.

We have been going back and forth for about two years(9 months of this he has been in jail). He was doing heroin and other stuff. I refused to fight with him, scream, or argue. He knew how I felt. I can't even bear the thought of it. He wasn't allowed to use around me or my kids or in my house.
I was just letting him see how his "friends" were living and how the rest of the world lived. He told my best friend he was going to stop because it hurt me to much and he did. He would go see these "friends" and when they were looking for more he would call me to come get him and I would, I didn't care what time it was. Then one day he moved in with me. I didn't know how much he was using because I didn't see any withdrawals. He was with me 24/7. He was never alone where he could have been sneaking any. One night he went to have a tattoo done and called me every half an hour. Then he called me at 1 in the morning and was on the phone until 4 when he went to sleep. I kinda felt like his sponser.

He told me he can get anything in prison but he is staying clean. I love this guy. Something just tells me that he needs me and I know I need him. I had the local college send him all their stuff and he has me getting his transcripts and stuff. He is trying to get custody of his daughter, he wants to get married and have a baby. I really believe that all he wants is a normal life. He loves my letters. He said I make him think about things that he never really thought about before. I'm blunt and I don't pull any punches. And I won't put up with any more bullshit. He has one chance and I'm walking.

I have a hard time understanding addiction. I'm no damn saint by any stretch of the imagination, but I was never addicted to anything. It was all fun and party time. Is there something there that causes a person to become addicted? Chemical, mental, physical? I need someone to help me understand before he comes home. He tells me he is an addict and constantly asks me if I am ready to do this with him. I think that's what scares me. I don't know what I'm getting into. I know we love and care for each other immensely, but I don't want to be played and I want to be able to be strong for him. He let me know Christmas that he is going to stay clean. This time did it for him.

We are excellant together as far as communication. We can say anything to each other. He has huge trust issues and he is afraid I am going to walk away. I would never. I need him to much. But I need him clean. I refuse to put up with the drugs. He is a very sweet, non violent man but he is an addict. He treats me and my kids like gold. I am getting out of an abusive marriage and I am afraid of losing myself in him and letting him slide. It is going to be hard. We both have a lot of baggage and it is going to be a haul to say the least.

I am totally giving it all to God and praying that He will lead us.

toi_ama 01-04-2004 01:56 PM

Go to Nar-Anon. You say you feel like you're his sponsor. Well, no sponsor would do what you do for him. He has to do it for himself and a sponsor would require that of him. In having him call you every half hour and all that stuff, what you're really doing is being codependent and the only way not to be codependent is to take the steps to educate yourself to what codependency is and then further steps to make sure you don't live in a codependent way with him. If you're not willing to do this and he's not willing to do NA, then the chances of actually making it as a couple or for him making it in recovery are greatly minimized, if not actually slim to none.

"Something just tells me that he needs me and I know I need him."

I don't think you could express a much better definition of a codependent relationship.

People involved with addicts who don't have an addiction problem themselves get very irate if it's suggested that they need to go to a program too. That's so very sad, because what happens is that they'll stay in denial of the very things in their own life that will keep them and any children they may have stuck in dysfunctional patterns, which just perpetuates addiction. It's called denial, and a codependent person is in every bit as much denial as the addict. Only in the case of the person who isn't addicted to substances, in some ways there may be even less hope of change for them because they have a greater difficulty admitting that they have a thinking and behavior problem as serious as the addict does. It's the thinking that "I don't have a problem----HE has the problem-----if it wasn't for him, I'd be fine" that's faulty.

Often, once the codepency is dealt with, the couple can go on to have a good life together. But only if they're both willing to admit that they each have a serious problem and each is willing to get help for it independently. You going to his meetings with him won't do the trick----you'll need to go to your own meetings.

PS---I want to edit this to add that lunachild asked me in PM to take a look at what she had posted and I responded to her post while in the midst of some PM's, not noticing that this isn't her original thread, but rather a part of another person's thread. That's why it might sound kind of disjointed to others reading the whole thread.

toi_ama 01-18-2004 11:21 PM

Here's another one! What's with all these old posts coming up as new posts?

kamaboko 02-12-2004 06:04 AM

Clockwork Orange. That's the only way to cure these people.

Eric's Homegirl 02-12-2004 06:15 PM

My husband had a drug addiction and then he was rearrested and placed back in
custody, however the war on drugs in prisons is almost as worse as on the streets.
My youngest sister Gina died of a herion overdose in 2001. I think the best thing for
repeated drug offenders is a damn good rehab placement center with alot of emotional
support to help these people get off the adiction and stay clean. I just hope that all of
us that has gone through this with our loved ones, stays strong for them. Even if it
means attending N.A. and going to conseuloring with them as a joint family related
support foundation, and admit that yes we all fall off the wagon sometimes, but don't
agree and say yes I understand, you have to have the upper hand in situations like these. My father put my sister in rehab over and over and got her clean, but once she
was released she went back to her old habits, that unfortuntley caused her death. If
my dad had stayed on top of her problems, I think she would still be here to day.

David 02-13-2004 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamaboko
Clockwork Orange. That's the only way to cure these people.

Oh, and how did the people turn out in that movie? No, I seriously doubt dropping acid in someone's eye and "programming" them is going to be the solution. Was a good movie way back when but it was just that.. a movie

witchlinblue 02-17-2004 07:50 PM

Yes that would be a serious step backwards in solving any problems to do that let alone to be influenced by a movie let alone that movie. Society already do a good job of programming people with media as it is, I would hate to think that we would even imagine that torture (which it really was in Clockwork Orange) would be the answer to managing a disease such as addiction. Managing the disease with good old fashion honest and reliable support is a much better starting point. They are humans, not labratory rats, they are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children, grandparents, they are people with real hearts and feelings.

Dannysmom 02-27-2004 06:56 PM

My son has been in prison into his 5th year. He has had drug rehab for the better part of his sentence. In missouri you have to have 6 months of drug rehab before you come out. My son called to night and is in the 6 months program he took a 10 week treatment just before he went into the 6 month one. I am hoping this time he can stay clean and out of trouble . He has not used since he was arrested. My son will be coming home in 176 days that is in August when his youngest son starts kindergarten.
This year he will be able to go to his sons ballgames. The war on drugs is tearing families apart. How did we get into this mess? Well I have my opion and I am sure most of you will not agree with me but it started with one woman and her campaign to get prayer out of schools. Then dr. spock and his you can't whip your kids. I am on a soap box sorry . It is my pet peeve.
dannysmom


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