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-   -   Judges warn of Trump ‘tyranny’ in defending sanctuary cities (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=711388)

Nickel Timer 04-20-2018 07:29 PM

Judges warn of Trump ‘tyranny’ in defending sanctuary cities
 
Quote:

President Trump lost another round in his legal battle over sanctuary cities Thursday as a federal appeals court ruled that he could not force localities to let deportation officers into their prisons and jails to go after illegal immigrants.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ctuary-cities/

sidewalker 04-21-2018 07:27 AM

Im so confused on alot of this.
If the feds really wanted to deport felons released from state prison, isnt that info available online?

I dont know how counties handle releasing guys from jail, but Im sure some of them would have an online thing as well.

All I know is when my hub was due to be released from state prison, ICE came and interviewed him. He's a naturalized citizen and so there was no issue but they did come and speak with him.

xolady 04-21-2018 07:52 AM

I'm confused also. I have a lot of people who I knew who basically would have been deported but were detained then let go. Don't expect federal funding if you don't comply with FEDERAL Laws.

miamac 04-21-2018 02:21 PM

(general disclaimer-- I live on the border and this is a highly personal subject for me)

I know that they were wanting our local LEO to essentially act as ICE agents. If they arrested (not convicted, and that may be some of the confusion) someone suspected to be undocumented, they wanted them to treat them as immigration detainees. Our LEO isn't here for that. That's not their job. We've got CPB and ICE crawling all over, if they want to detain someone let them do it on their budget.

ICE has also been using court dates to issue detainment orders. Literally sitting on the court steps. Keep in mind not all persons appearing in court are doing so because they're charged with a criminal (let alone felonious) act.

As far as pulling federal funds because local LEO is refusing to take orders from an outside agency-- that's not how it works. Our constitution protects that process.

"The concept of a sanctuary city does not mean it is a place where federal law is unenforced by the feds. Rather, it is a place where local authorities have elected not to spend their tax dollars helping the feds to enforce federal law. The term “sanctuary city” is not a legal term but a political one."

"Can the feds withhold federal funds from cities that refuse to cooperate in the enforcement of federal law? Yes and no. In the post-World War II era, Congress began purchasing state compliance with its wishes in areas that the Constitution did not permit it to regulate. Stated differently, since Congress can spend money on any matter it wishes, as long as it is arguably for the general welfare, but it cannot regulate for the general welfare, it has used its power of the purse as a way around the constitutional limitations on its regulatory powers."

source

xolady 04-21-2018 02:33 PM

Federal state city county??? You take federal funding you should have to follow the federal laws. Not pick or choose which ones suit the region.

miamac 04-21-2018 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolady (Post 7716257)
Federal state city county??? You take federal funding you should have to follow the federal laws. Not pick or choose which ones suit the region.

They are following federal rules. They're not stopping feds from doing their job. They're just not willing to slash their local budgets to do it.

You're talking apples and oranges. If that's the case, no state law, no local law, holds ANY weight. We may as well do away with them.

This is what Trump is saying:
Local law enforcement, you must use your local taxes to do the work of a federal agency. If you do not, we pull funding from programs completely unrelated to the issue at hand.

How is that "correct"? If he wants deportation funding (federal act) then write it into the federal budget. Don't steal it from local funds or bribe states to do it with incentives like decommissioned military grade weaponry access (like the Clinton admin did).

miamac 04-21-2018 02:54 PM

I think what's missing is a basic understanding of federalism.

"The [Constitutional] Framers rejected the concept of a central government that would act upon and through the States, and instead, designed a system of dual governance and dual sovereignty, in which the States and the Federal Government would exercise concurrent authority over the people. While the Constitution limits the powers of the Congress and the powers of the States by placing substantive due process and procedural due process restrictions on both governments, the Constitution gives Congress not the power to regulate states, but only individuals." source

Federal government does not dictate state or local law except where such laws may be deemed unconstitutional. For example, marijuana. Federally illegal, but legalized by certain states. Same sex marriage, not recognized federally but is recognized by some states. Where are the threats to defund over these? There aren't any because that's not how it works. And to be more exact, even if it did work that way it would be a congressional decision not one made by a single individual.

miamac 04-21-2018 03:06 PM

Last comment because this subject threatens to give me a stroke...

I live in a rural community. We rely on a shoestring sheriff's department for everything from welfare checks on our largely senior population to criminal investigation. I'm going to be really cheesed off if one day I call for help and they're delayed or on the other side of the county because they've been ordered to go after a family of farm workers. That's the problem.

fbopnomore 04-21-2018 06:57 PM

US Border Patrol is paying a private company $297 million to help hire 5000 new border patrol agents according to this Los Angeles Times article.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...217-story.html

In addition, the president is trying to get the State Governors to send National Guard troops to guard the Mexican border. So why not add as many free local law enforcement officers as possible too?

Another political fear campaign just like Iraq's WMDs.

sidewalker 04-22-2018 06:05 AM

Mia, that was a good read! (thanks for sharing it)

I totally remember the beef with states regarding the speed limit laws.
When I started driving, the limit was 55. (no matter how hard I try I always seem to slow down to that speed......even after all these yrs of changing it back to 65)

I keep hearing that the feds can *make* the state hold someone, but they need a warrant to do so if the person is eligible to be released. The state cant hold them if there are no state charges, correct? (or the state is satisfied with whatever pound of flesh they needed)

I also keep hearing that Federal laws *trump* states laws. It seems that isnt exactly true from what I read.
Im not trying to start a thing here. I really do want to understand this. Since Im in CA we also have a huge population of undocumented people.

(the one thing I do have a strong opinion on those are the kids brought in as minors by their parents. I think they should be given immunity or made citizens. And not 10 yrs from now. It should be done now)

Minor activist 06-13-2018 03:49 PM

Quote:

"The concept of a sanctuary city does not mean it is a place where federal law is unenforced by the feds. Rather, it is a place where local authorities have elected not to spend their tax dollars helping the feds to enforce federal law. The term “sanctuary city” is not a legal term but a political one."
This is pure truth and can't be said enough. They are no-unfunded-mandate cities. If they make policy based on the ACLU principles they are due-process cities.

If they forbid the local police from asking about anyone's immigration status, they are let-the-police-protect-others-by-making-witnesses-feel-safe-to-come-forward cities.


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