What are the GLBT Differences!?!

[MonkeyBoi77]

Hmm just a thought thread, do the others online or in real life know the true difference between crossdresser, transvestite, transgendered and transsexual?

Have you had a hard time trying to explain the differences to them when they won't listen? How do you explain this to them, without confrontation?

[Ken]

I think that most of these words and their definitions are somewhat foggy and blurred to most people. I think that they are largely mis-used but that is something that won't soon change...

If I were to give you my definition of each....

1) Crossdresser - this is a man that enjoys to wear womens clothing. This man can be straight and have an active and loving relationship with a woman and have children and have absolutely NO attraction to the same sex. This man does not live on a daily basis in women's clothing.

2) Transvestite - this is a man that lives daily in women's clothing. This man is more likely gay. This man chooses to live life as a female image but is comfortable with his own male gender underneath the clothing.

3) Transsexual - this is a person born a male or female that feels from their brain, thoughts, and emotions that they are not the sex that they were born. This is a person that feels trapped in their body of birth and desires to be viewed and received as the opposite sex from their physical appearance.

4) Transgendered - this in my definition is an expansion on the above and this person is either moving towards surgery or has undergone surgery. This person is definitely living life as the opposite sex that they were born.

I think that these definitions are always going to be difficult to understand and describe to people. You will always find that there will be some out there that will use the wrong term... for many out there these are confusing terms because they just don't embrace the concept of transsexual/transgendered. Most automically lump transsexual and transgendered with the Gay / Lesbian society and that is the furtherst from the actual truth. Transgendered and Transsexuals are not gay or lesbian. They have always been lumped with the Gay Lesbian society because we are more accepting of them but they are not themselves gay or lesbian. I think that society wants to label transsexuals and transgendered as gay because they emotionally and sexually desire the same sex to their born physical idenity, but they don't realize the difference between being gay and transsexual.

Ok.... enough said.

[MonkeyBoi77]

Your definitions are pretty much right on the dot, but from what I have learned Transsexuals are the ones who do surgery and Transgendered are the ones who find themselves in limbo of their gender, but then again TG is a huge umbrella term and everyone gets easily confused!

lol I even went and looked these words up and TG said taking on the characteristics and behaviors of the opposite sex, and TS said have SRS.

Weird how an umbrella term gets things confusing.

Anyone ever lost friends due to being TG/TS, G,L,B?

[PTO-29412]

I think everyone has lost friends because of orientation. Whether you are gay, bisexual, lesbian, crossdresser, transvestite, or transgendered/transsexual.

However I do not think that our greatest diversity or hate is from outsiders....I believe that most of it comes from within our own community.

Most Lesbians and Gay men do not associate regularly, (or at least in my area) Gay men hate TG, DQ's, Some do not like Bi's, and some do not like sissy's, bears, butch....etc. and the list goes on and on and on and on.

I personally have lost more potential relationships because I used to be a popular Drag Queen in Mississippi. Do not get me wrong, I LOVE being a male, LOVE MEN, however every blue moon on a Saturday, I would go in drag and have a ball.

Most Gay men, do NOT want to associate with either a drag queen, or a former Drag Queen. Either because you are A) toooo femme or B) that isn't what being "Gay" is all about
and BLAH blah BLAH!!!

I have heard it all!

This is a good topic however, because I believe alot of people confuse identities and differences, and do not realize that we are all eventually one group of people. GLBT or LGBT however you wanna start it, eventually stands for GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL and TRANS.......which means we should all band together for support.

At our local Gay Pride Day, I gave a speech on this subject and diversity in our "Ranks". How can we demand equality and justice and rights, when we do not offer that same thing to others within our own community? We are stronger unified and together. And we will be defeated if we do not stand together (paraphrasing here!)

[TakinItDaybyDay]

I always thought that TS and TG were the same. I just thought that TG is the newest and most PC word.

[MonkeyBoi77]

Bailey I so agree the most hate is not from outside but from our own community, how can we stand together if we cant stand along side each other.

Somer, I used to think the same till I got a lesson from my best FTM- female to male- bro! TG is a huge umbrella term, thats why there is so much flack with the word itself, he, my ftm bro, explained to me that being TG is different than TS, most TG's like myself for instance, act and are like the opposite sex, however some TG's go farther into becoming TS by doing hormone treatments and SRS!

TG is mainly used to describe a part of the GLBT community, but the sub categories are TG non transitioning, Transsexual which means surgery! Ack sub categories, this stuff shouldnt be so hard to explain LOL.

What gets me is that I have explained this to lots of people time and again, yet it doesnt sink in to their brain, it frustrates me to the point where I give them links to the terminology and leave them to read it LOL

[Rodg]

Bailey!
YOU GO GIRL!!!! The community I live in is one of the worst I have been in across the country! I've lived in Portland, OR, Denver, CO, Atlanta, GA MPLS., MN, Cincinnati, OH and now on the Ohio Northcoast. Never...NEVER I TELL YOU!; have I been in such a hateful and judgemental gay community! The dissention here is incredible and I am in the process of opening a very LARGE Gay club where I will do my best to create an atmosphere where people meet each other and get to know each other and learn new respect and new boundaries. What a goal!!!!

[MonkeyBoi77]

Hot damn and good luck on your club Rod!

Have any of you ever been to Houston? I think ya'll might wanna include Houston on the list of judgemental communites, then again thats just my 2 cents!

Has anyone ever encountered someone who was willing to listen to the differences?

[MonkeyBoi77]

dang did it again!

[Hearts&Minds]

just my two cents...

i lived in toronto, ontario, and am an openly lesbian (occasionally bisexual) 24 year old woman with many TG, TS, DQ, FTM and MTF friends. though no city and no gay scene is entirely open and accepting (ironic, isn't it?) toronto was okay because there were many out trans-people willing to discuss the issue and enlighten those who had questions. there were also a number of "safe spaces" where those of us in the GBLT community could get to know each other.

i give big props to all those who desire to understand their friends better and ask those difficult, and sometimes awkward questions. once we de-mystify who we are, maybe we will all finally see that at the essence we're all the same.

oh! i am currently living in Hanoi, Vietnam (utter LACK of a GBLT community) but i did just recently return from a trip to Bangkok, Thailand. I think the Thais could teach us all a lesson about acceptance; i've travelled all over and Bangkok was one of the most OPEN and ACCEPTING places in terms of sexuality. young butchy women holding hands on the subway, young men drapped all over each other, 'lady boys' respected and treated fairly.... wow... a total breath of fresh air!

[MonkeyBoi77]

Ty for your addition, I love when people ask instead of being an ass about things!

[Rodg]

Hey Monkeyboi, Just got back from Dallas yesterday and was in Houston two weeks ago but have never been out to any of the bars there. Have some close friends there but we're all old farts ya know? LOL

[PTO-29412]

Rodg, If you are opening up a club do you need a fabuolous talent co-ordinator!

LOL

Good luck with that, More power to you!!

[MonkeyBoi77]

LOL Rod well I know alot of old farts that go out to the clubs, when ya come back swing me a message and maybe we can chill together!

Glad to see everyone is well!

[Emma_]

And here are my two Swedish cents: What about the women? Don't forget about all the drag kings and cross dressing women around the globe!

[MonkeyBoi77]

Drag Kings and Queens fall under the cross dressing category, these words dont include gender, just what the real meaning of them is!

[tranniegurl]

First let me say this I am a person of transgender experince and I have been for nearly 18 years. Explaining this is never easy. You were right on point with your definitions. However I hate when people make a diagonis for my life (not you of course) just society in general. Why can't people just be people no matter what they are?

Ok so Transgender is a person who has decided not to have surgery and transsexuals are normally those who have completed the surgery. I say when people ask that I am a transsexual, even though I have not had any surgery nor do I plan on having any, because the word transgender sounds like some sickness. For me transsexual is just more trendy.

For the record transgender people started the fight for equality in the GLB community. At the Stone Wall riots it was a trans-women who threw the first rock. It was the trannies who stood on the front lines that day and fought for equality for the gay community. The seperation came shortly after when the GLB community refused to acknowldge the trans-community. It was not until a few years ago that The New York GLB community center would even consider putting T in their name. It was not until a group of trannies familiar with the struggle stood in the lobby of the GLB center and protested very loudly that T should be included in their name. Once the Center realized these trannies were not going to back down that day or any other they agreed to add T to GLB. Just a few years back like three the GLB community while fighting for gay rights in NYC decided that Trans or gender variant people should not be included in the lanuage of the law SONDA and the trans community was thus not included in the bill that would offer equal protection for the GLB&T community. We accordingly fought and were able to get an admendment to the bill (INT. 24) which has lanuage specific to trans and gender variant people. In NYC some of the Gay clubs require that a trans women show 2,3 even 4 pices of ID in hopes that she will not be able to enter.

It is not that trans people don't identify with the gay community it is that we are often treated the worst by the gay community. Think about it most trans folks for one reason or another don't fit in straight society; be it because they don't look the part, their name doesn't match the desired gender, they decided to be gender variant or what ever the reason we sometimes just don't fit and so if we don't fit into straight society(even though a large # of ts people identify as straight) the gay community won't accept us where are we supposed to fit in at? Our community is small and needing to be part of the whole of any group is important to people no matter what they are or how they identify themself.

If you want to know what the life of a trans-person is like just dress in drag and don't make a good attempt at looking like what gender you are going for and you will see just how hard it is for trans-people and be sure you make a special trip to the bathroom you are dressed for and by all means don't forget to stop by the gay commuinty and see the warm reception that you will get.

[tranniegurl]

THE TRANSGENDER UMBRELLA COVERS :

CROSSDRESSERS (also known as TRANSVESTITES)
People who dress in the clothing, partially or completely, of the societal norm for the "opposite" gender. Most crossdressers are heterosexual men who crossdress for pleasure. Bisexual and gay men who crossdress usually do so for entertainment purposes, making fun of what it means to be a man.
DrAG Queens*—Dressed As a Girl
DrAB Kings*—Dressed As a Boy * DrAG Queen and DrAB King are historical terms. Currently, "DrAG" refers to either.

• THIRD GENDER

A person whose understanding of her/hir/his gender identification transcends society’s polarized gender system. OBGLTC believes that the dichotomized system of gender is limiting; therefore, OBGLTC encourages everyone to think outside and beyond this schema.Male-to-Third Gender (born in body of male, believe self to be another gender)*
Female-to-Third Gender (born in body of female, believe self to be another gender)*
* People who are third gender often prefer "transgender" to "third gender".

• TRANSSEXUALS

People born in the body associated with one gender but believe internally that they are of another gender.Male-to-Female (born in body of male, believe self to be female)
Female-to-Male (born in body of female, believe self to be male) Some transsexuals use hormones and/or sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) to create the bodies they believe they were born to have. There are potential health risks for some hormone treatments and thus, more research is needed to allow for better health care for transgender people. The Benjamin Standards are requirements set by a committee of the American Psychological Association, and must be met in order for a transsexual to legally change their external identity and body. Many transsexual/transgender people who have completed sexual reassignment surgery no longer identify as transsexual/transgender, but rather identify as their "new" gender.Pre-operative (considering or planning SRS)
Post-operative (has had SRS)
Non-operational (for personal and/or medical reasons—e.g., breast cancer—has chosen not to have SRS)

• INTERSEXUALS (historically called hermaphrodites)

A person born with mixed sexual physiology, with a physical manifestation of genital/genetic/endocrinological differentiation which is different from the cultural norm. Intersexuals often are "assigned" a boy/girl gender, and surgery is done soon after birth to "correct" their "problem." The problem may well be our society’s tightly held view that there are only 2 genders.FOR SERVICE PROVIDERS/CARE GIVERS


*HOW TO BE MORE UNDERSTANDING AND WELCOMING OF TRANSGENDER PEOPLE*

10 BASIC ACTIONS

1. Respect a person’s identity and self-label.
2. Create single stall bathrooms.
3. Say the words: Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, Transgender.
4. Do not use "-ed" at the end of "transgender".
5. Make no assumptions about gender identity or sexual orientation.
6. Do not assume a transgender person is all-knowing and/or wants to speak about TG issues.
7. Do not assume a transgender person can speak only about transgender, nor that it is or is not an issue at all.
8. Hand out TG102 wherever possible—make it available to all.
9. Use the word "children" instead of "boys and girls", "people" instead of "women and men".
10. Create/include a TG box on forms where gender is requested. Also, ask for "gender", not "sex".
    1. 
       10 ADVANCED ACTIONS
11. Ask questions about transgender issues.
12. Do not tokenize persons who are TG.
13. Talk to children about transgender issues.
14. Talk about gender roles you grew up with.
15. Review member policies for your men’s and women’s groups—do they make room to include transgender folks?
16. Realize that learning about gender is a life-long process.
17. Do not divide groups (including in worship) into groups of men and women.
18. Do not ask the gender of a newborn child.
19. Experiment: Spend a day or week avoiding using pronouns when referring to someone important in your life.
20. Learn about the local laws regarding:

1. 1. hate crimes
   2. name changes
   3. changing gender
   4. discrimination (employment, housing…)
   5. impersonation of a gender

[MonkeyBoi77]

ty for that I was gonna post those but you beat me to it

[FranksFrackBoy]

Wow! Ken seems to know a lot about this...maybe too much? LOL!

Luv ya, Ken!

[MonkeyBoi77]

LOL when ya live the life you tend to know alot more than some others, but hey this is welcome maybe others will read and get educated!

[Fyrstar]

Heh, some men are allowed to wear skirts. Let's talk about Priest Robes and Scottish Kilts=D

Okay, my take on the words...

Crossdresser=Transvestite: Men that like to dress like women for fun.

Transsexual=Transgender: MtF or FtM. Doesn't matter whether you are working on the surgery or not, as long as you live the gender role.

Once you finish transitioning, you're either a male or female. You drop the TS/TG tag.

[PTO-92958]

Originally Posted by Fyrstar

Heh, some men are allowed to wear skirts. Let's talk about Scottish Kilts=D

YAY KILTS!!! (I'm Scottish, ya know... ) My Dad actually wears one from time to time. He took my step daughter to the Scottish Games the other week...lots of fun...and Guinness! She was one of, like, 8 Black people there! LOL!!!
Uhhh, sorry, am I in the wrong forum? Looking for Scots who love their inmates... (I'll keep it movin now...just me and my wierd sense of humor...)

[FranksFrackBoy]

I'm not sure, but I think men that like to dress like women for fun are called 'drag queens'. A transvestite is someone who is compelled psychologically to do it. As far as dropping the ts/tg label, do people who have 'finished' (is there a finish?) transitioning drop it? I ask because I really don't know.

Scott

[PTO-29412]

Yes - I am a drag queen - called a drag queen - do not want to transition and am not considered a transvestite or crossdresser.

I do it on the weekends and it is work related.