Blame Government ? and lawmakers for our kids?

[awesumdove]

Hi everyone - I visited my daughter this past Thursday, and one of the topics that came up was ~ you know Mom, "the government, lawmakers, and the states are somewhat to blame for so many kids being in prison ~

And her reasoning (and I have to somewhat agree) was that many years ago, probably dating as far back as the 80's, was the issue of discipline in that it was taken away from us as parents, caregivers, and teachers because of abuse and/or some parents could not control themselves or didn't know when to stop???

You can no longer discipline your kids with a little switching on the back of the legs, etc., because someone, your neighbor, friend, ex-husband or someone that has a grudge against you or whoever could call "Child Protective Services" and lodge a complaint that you were abusing your child.

If a child is having a temper tantrum in a mall or store (anywhere), you dare not discipline them on the spot or talk badly to them for fear that someone will/may call the police and you could be arrested.

And then, children started controlling their parents by threatening to call Child Protective Services themselves about being abused when there was none.

And now you cannot say the Lords Prayer or any prayers in schools or public meetings etc., or be able to show any kind of religious preference anywhere. In some cases, the pledge is not even allowed because of small fragmented groups and their rights. Well, my friends, what about our rights?

What is this world coming to? And then they want to imprison anyone for the slightest violation with unfair or inappropriate sentences; and still yet they complain about overcrowding and costs, as well.

I was just wondering how everyone feels about discipline, and what do you do? if your child/young adult is out of line, or out of control? Your honest opinion and thoughts please.

PS: The more I come to this site the angrier I get seeing the inappropriate and unjust sentences for the same crime. There has to be something we, as a group, can do about this. Parents need to be able to disipline... I don't mean to offend anyone, but I see so much sorrow here, and had to voice my distaste for our government and lawmakers.

[wendy tyler]

Keep doing your homework Dove....you will find that the prison business is quite lucrative. No one here will be offended, I can assure you. In CA, 60% of all government employees are in corrections. Go figure. Not to mention the concessions that benefit. I'm not one that feels we were targeted. My son is where he needs to be at this time, but so many others are not in the same boat. Excessive sentencings. The state of CA has been good to my kid, but there are those that beg to differ in other states.

[awesumdove]

Originally Posted by wendy tyler

Keep doing your homework Dove....you will find that the prison business is quite lucrative. No one here will be offended, I can assure you. In CA, 60% of all government employees are in corrections. Go figure. Not to mention the concessions that benefit. I'm not one that feels we were targeted. My son is where he needs to be at this time, but so many others are not in the same boat. Excessive sentencings. The state of CA has been good to my kid, but there are those that beg to differ in other states.

Hi Wendy ~ I am with you, and I wholeheartedly agree about needed punishment. And the majority of time I feel the inmates need & deserve their punishment. My daughter needed her punishment, as well, and it looks like she is benefiting from it too.

But I am seeing so much sorrow and pain from unjust & inappropriate sentences , and for the same crime. To me, DNA testing is a constitutional issue, and should be given to everyone, and everyone should be allowed and should have the right to prove themself innocent, particularly in the case Life or the DP.

In any case, what are your thoughts on discipline though?

PS: I think I may have posted this in the wrong forum, and maybe it should be on the main PWCIP forum so that others may see this post and express their thoughts. (I didn't see this is for non-prison items.) Sorry!

[awesumdove]

Boop's Mom ~ AMEN!!!

[boop's mom]

I totally agree, once they took prayer and discipline away from both parents and teachers our society took a nose dive. I seldom hit my kids but once or twice when they did something so wrong 2 out of the 4 got a good whooping, although I doubt it did any good, they both still managed to find trouble later. But yes kids have little respect for any authority and societies answer is just lock em up. It was so different when many of us were growing up, we had healthy respect for our elders and teachers and were afraid of messing up,never because we even considered the thought of getting locked away, but having to face your parents wrath... and those that did didn't usually end up in prison, that was for the really bad guys who probably deserved to be there for violent crimes, as far as I know al the "bad boys" of the neighborhood are now productive adults.
I told my mom many years ago I blamed the downfall of our society whenthey abolished prayer in schools and our government has taken away so many rights for the sake of a few.

[wendy tyler]

Boop, I always busted my kids' behinds when they needed to get busted. I raised them here in MX. Naughty boy wasn't back in the States but a year, and ended up in prison. I was totatly blind sided. He never hung in a hood. There couldn't possibly be another country in the world that is more Religious than here. He still ended up in prison. I can understand alot wanting to blame the lack of morals that were once instilled in our children at public levels, what excuse does that leave me with? Other than him moving back to the US. That's it...that's my excuse.

[wendy tyler]

Dove, I was typing out my last reply while you were posting yours. 2 ships.....! My thoughts on discipline are that we did the best we could and then those rights were basically taken from us once they got themselves into trouble and it was out of our hands. I for one never even imagined I would be a prison mom because the state of anywhere would punish him for me. My son is not a victim of an over zealous sentence, not by a long shot. But damn, I grieve for those moms that are. I grieve for their kids too. I pray for sentencing reforms just as much as their moms do.

[boop's mom]

Wendy I wasn't referring to the 'hood', just the town where I grew up. Anywho, your son is paying for America's mistakes, 30 years ago he probably wouldn't be in prison, our government is badly broken but the idiots can't see the forest for the trees and can never look back and say oops we f'd up. They stand on their high moral ground and talk and talk about how to fix things and how to best spend the tax payers money without hurting their own pockets, and you see the mess they've created? it surely wasn't a perfect world when I was growing up but it was a hell of alot better than it is today. All my dad had to do was slap that ping pong paddle against a hard surface and I could imagine it across my butt and i staightened up fast (he never did use it on me) but the threat was enough.

[wendy tyler]

Boop, I wasn't referring to your son when I mentioned the 'hood' Sorry, that came out wrong. I was however referring to a lot of our young men, I don't think any are on this forum, but others..that were raised in a hood. Those poor fellas don't seem to stand a chance!!! It's bloody heatbreaking. For the record, I chased after my kids with a teflon spatula. Usually I just had to crack that noise on the counter top, and all order was restored.

[boop's mom]

That usually works for my dogs too, I didn't think you were referring to boop, but maybe where I grew up since I said neighborhood. I know alot of the inner city kids are doomed from birth but that's a whole other soap box.

[Bearoops]

I feel it is not the childs up bringing or dose it have to do with their Parents. It is SOCIETY. We can't even disiplin our kids without someone sticking their nose where it don't belong. I have been to to many counceling meetings over this subject and it MAKES ME SICK. I used a flip flop on my boys bottom many times. I even had a COP tell me to use a belt on their bottem if needed to.

[angel mathews]

When my kids were little they did get a pop on the bottem once in awhile and as they got older the only thing I had to do was say EXCUSE ME and they knew they were in trouble there is a difference in descipline and abuse many of the younger parents today dont know what that difference is and let they're children run them..... example I have a friend whose child always was threating to call DSS on her.one day we were at a church dinner and my friend was talking to me now my friend is very animated when she talks hands flying all over the place well by accident she hit her child in the face while talking..... Well the child immediatly starts screaming in the church hall that her mother hit her on purpose and she was going to call DSS my friend became very afraid of her child and started trying to explain that she did not hit her on purpose the child would have none of it and became louder at this point a took a quarter out of my purse and told the child to go and make that call right now if she really believed that living in a foster home would be sooooooo much better than living with a truely loving family who never in any way abused her I told it wouldnt matter what any one else said that DSS would believe her story and her mother would go to jail and she would get to live in I dont know how many different foster families some of them good and maybe some of them not so good but it would her life from this day forword.....From that day forward I dont think that child ever threated her mom again with DSS She is now 24 years old and still living with mom and cant help her mom out eneagh Desciple in my opione is talking with the child and explaining the consciquences of there actions letting them know what will happen if they make that choice and once they are adults they know what is going to happen if they make the wrong choices and the parent has done the best that they could

[awesumdove]

Originally Posted by angel mathews

When my kids were little they did get a pop on the bottem once in awhile and as they got older the only thing I had to do was say EXCUSE ME and they knew they were in trouble there is a difference in descipline and abuse many of the younger parents today dont know what that difference is and let they're children run them..... parent has done the best that they could

Exactly, and I know that we as parents (for the most part) have done excellent jobs (or why would some of our kids turn out good and do well in life, and the others sit in prison), and whatever mistakes our children or grandchildren make are of their own doing. We have no reason to feel guilty although we agonize over this for a long, long time.

My point is that now a days (even as grandparents) we no longer have the right to discipline our children or grandchildren out of fear from the law, because you know what, sometimes you just can't prove you didn't do something) and even our words can be used against us , whether true or false.

[wickit]

There was a time when my son brought home an assignment from school for the parents to do. It was a question for us to answer and it was; how do you feel about the "no fear" statement the kids wear? or say? My answer was I wanted my kids to be afraid of things out in the this mixed up world. I stated that there are just to many things that could get them into trouble if they weren't afraid of the gangs and drugs. I made enemies that day and most of the teachers were very upset and mad. They thought our kids should not be afraid to do anything they wanted to do but that was not my point. Surely to goodness I thought if they had a rope they would hang me for that! They made my future with my son very hard at school, they didn't want me there (but it didn't stop me). They watched me like hawks!

[addictsmom]

I spanked my kid's butts when they needed it and I spank Zach when he needs it. I swear, I got a whippin every day when I was young whether I needed it or not. LOL And I turned out ok I guess. (never been in prison I guess is a positive) I know I should watch my self because of the eyes of others but I have always followed the rule that if my child acts an idiot in Walmart, they are going to get a spanking in Walmart. If he acts up in the grocery store, he is going to get it in the grocery store. I did try to take them to the bathroom as they got older. I never used any belts or paddles, just my hand, but I do believe in corporal punishment. But I also realize there is a difference in punishment and abuse. Some people cannot draw that line, but I think the majority can. We as parents must be able to choose what is right or wrong for our children. Children's need change as they grow. While very young, spanking may get the needed results, as they get older, spanking do not work well. Then comes other forms of discipline. But a child that has no discipline, is a child that has been set up to fail from the get go....

Diane

[lookinforward]

Thank you all for this conversation. It has helped me today with my process of dealing with my daughter who is most likely going to Oregon prison for possibly over a year.


Wendy Tyler and Awsome Dove– you said your son and daughter are where they need to be, and deserved the punishment. Would you mind explaining your thoughts about that? It is one of my dilemmas in my own head – on one hand I think that my daughter does “need to be punished”. Her charges are Burg among others, her actions were not surprisingly connected with drugs and a boyfriend also into theft and drugs, neither of which means she is any less responsible for her actions, as she herself says.


But I think that if she would have had better treatment options available, perhaps she could have turned there instead of where she did. And – I'm also thinking that perhaps being in prison would help her get her mind and body more clear of the drugs (she's actually been in county jail for about 6 months).


BUT – I am of course terrified for her, and to use a much used word on this site – I am heartbroken that her life has taken this turn. And I continually think “how did this happen”? She has had addiction problems since she was about 15 (now 29). But she was going to school, dreams of a career. And then when life handed her an emotional blow, she crashed and went back to drugs, new found “friends” (!!!!!!)........


The six months she's been in the county jail, I could honestly tell her that I at least knew where she was and that she was alive. And that I was – after getting over THAT shock of her being there – I was just continually grateful that she was in there and alive, as opposed to the other choice, of losing her life to drugs or violence.


And I do agree that the prison system these days is mostly about money, and taking the easy way out of our current society's hell-bent trip to major addiction issues – beginning with the worse legalized drug of all – alcohol. But as someone said – that's another soapbox.
Thanks again -
frazier

[awesumdove]

Hi onemoremom ~ I have read your post and I am so sorry that you're going through this hell, and virtual prison tunnel. Unfortunately, this is only the beginning, but day after day you will become more informed about everything to do with prison life & learn all about your daughter, and believe me you will become stronger. That is what PTO is all about. No judging; just support & sharing your concerns and fears.

All of us here (moms and dads alike) are in the same predicament, some to a more severe degree than others, but never the less we all share each others heartache, sorrow and, yes, disappointments in our children, and who to be honest with you, they just would not heed our warnings over many years.

It's like riding on a double-edge sword. You try to give your kid all the basics of right and wrong, but you know what... they say one thing to your face, "OK Mom, I got it", and then they turn around, walk away and do whatever they fancy or whatever their peers draw them into. It's like they think what you don't know won't hurt you. They are sadly mistaken.

You mention if your daughter had gotten the proper treatment that maybe this would have not happened. In my daughter's case she's been doing wrong apparently for several years (and she's a grown woman in her forties) but to be honest I never saw it coming; I loved my daughter. She is bi-polar with schizophrenia, and the doctor/psychiatarist she was 1st going to was just a "legal drug pusher". He never listened to her once in all the visits to him when she was telling him how she felt, and all her problems. And worse yet, I did not understand or look into her diagnoses more myself. The other thing is, that I as her mother am not allowed to have access to this information, because she is over 21 and a grown woman. I feel if I had known the seriousness of her condition I may have been able to intercede for her, and get her to another psychiatrist a little sooner.

Alas, the damage was done. She is addicted to RX drugs and going from hospital to hospital (i.e. shopping) for drugs; hence she is an addict; and apparently this is the worst kind because they can cover it so well. She wrote many bad checks, stole Rx from the drug store for the medicine that she sorely needed to control this BP, stole from us, sold our furniture out of a house that we provided her to live in because I knew she couldn't keep a job for any period of time to support herself, put a car up for collateral for a gambling debt. The list goes on and on, and I had talked to her many times, but again it did not do any good. She had been in jail a couple of times for 3 days, 10 days, etc. and I, being the stupid mom I was, bailed her out each time because I loved her & didn't want her to suffer. Well, that was just like a slap on her wrist.

The next time it happened was when hubby & I traveled back to MD in December for 2-1/2 weeks for a Masonic Grandmaster's annual banquet and some other activities we belonged to. She assured us she could take care of the house & 2 dogs and everything would be OK. I still at this time was in denial about the drugs because you could not look at her and see that anything was amiss. Boy was I wrong. Anyway, on the night of the banquet which was full formal & black tie event, my brother called & said Kat's been arrested because she was at the hospital, and I guess this particular hospital finally caught on (after a couple of visits) and they called the police. Well, you cannot call collect from jail to a cell phone, and the lady we were staying with had her phone blocked to "collect" calls because her son was a drug addict & had threatened her. I could not call my daughter and she could not call us. To say I was distraught and in a panic was an understatement. We were 7 hours away from home, and hubby would not leave & come back home. He stood his ground, we went to the banquet where I proceeded to have way too much to drink, but in my heart I knew he was right. We had done all we could to help her, and each time she would shake her head acknowledging our concern & potential consequences for her, but she was apparently still doing the drugs anyway.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when children are grown you can not punish them anymore. What can you possibly do, or take away from them, or punish them with; absolutely nothing. We ultimately left her in jail for the full 30 days. I was in agony. She then went to EOCC (Eastern Ohio Correctional Center) for 6 months, and when released I thought she was going to be OK.

Now, she's doing OK and attempting to work for 3-weeks, and steals from the store and runs. Mind you now she's already on probation. So sheriff comes to our door and tells us what's happened. Says if she calls, she needs to come in. Well she did finally call only because she was broke down. I talked her into coming back and facing the consequences. That was in January and finally in June she went to prison for 12 months.

My daughter & I have talked so much on our 3-hour visits over the past 10 months and I can see she has changed so much for the better now, she's looking so good, all of the drugs are out of her system, and she confesses (now) "Mom, leaving me in jail for that 30 days was probably the most privotal and best thing you could have ever done for me . She even acknowledged had we not left her in jail she probably would be dead by now.

Onemoremom, do you have any idea how good it feels (finally) to hear something like this from your child who was on drugs and going down-hill fast. I cried and I know now that I should have stopped helping her a long time ago. I was basically enabling her (in the name of love) and she was not going to stop me from doing this. I am the one that had to stop....

Sorry for the long story, but maybe the only thing that will help your daughter at this point is prison . It's going to be pure hell for her, but hopefully you will be able to see a new person emerge too. I hope so! She did not get into any of the training programs she wanted, but they have got her medicines adjusted, she is doing good, no longer hears voices, and has a new outlook about life. I do hope this helps some of the other moms and dads out there, as well, and that bailing your kid out is not always the answer

[heartbrokenmom]

I know I wished I had disciplined my children more when they were small. As they say, hindsight is 20/20. Taking discipline out of schools has done no good. Our children grew up with nintendos, video games, all kinds of movies and the stay at home mom was mostly a working mom. It usually took two parents working just to make it. Our children definitely grew up in a different era and now the prisons are full. The world has changed since I grew up. I can't really say my son is where I feel he is supposed to be. Yes, he needed consequences, but the time he got for his crime, I feel, was excessive. I don't know what the answer is, but technology and all the things that have come about over the last 30 years, I think it has a lot to do with the way things are in this country now. All the violence now and disrespect. I tried to teach my children the best that I could and that is all I can do is my best. Everything is just so different and getting out of control. One thing, this country has turned it's back on God and values. I wished I could go back to simpler times!!!

[dutchgirl1]

I have been wanting to post here since it started. I think LONNNGGG time back I had said something near to this... that because we lost our parental rights to correct our children, and the turn from moral judgements, this country is headed down slope, as our kids.
my son was guilty of selling meth and needed to be stopped and God did intervene and put him in prison. not my choice but one that not only saved his life, but his soul also. the consp to murder...no. he should not be there for something he did. but what I am getting at... if he had lived with a father who cared, maybe he wouldnt be where he is. yes, I still blame myself there. I should have fought for him and had him with me.
but I digress... we have always swatted on the butt when the kids needed correction. and even though they say we cant... you know what...send me to jail. if my kids were still young.. or if I have my grandkids w/me and they need correction.. they will get it. you dont need belts or paddles. even if they laugh ... the point is they know you mean what you say. be consistant.
my granddaughter some yrs back... she was a teen.. she was on restriction and her mom took her to store w/her. gd started being mouthy and cussing her mom, and mom reacted... a little w/o thinking yes, but she turned around and smacked gd in mouth. gd ran off and reported her. they took her away, went to school and picked up the youngest, tried to take gs too... but he said no way. my sister is spoiled brat. anyhow... it was months while son & dil had to do classes and could only see the 2 girls under supervision. after a few months gd who started all this.. she started missing home. eventually girls went home.
it is a shame that parents are afraid to correct our own kids. they run us now. not right.
the gov't and these rules... almost like heading to a hitler state run place. NOT!

ok I think I am rambling and need some coffee and go to work now. been up since before 3 a.m. sorry about that.

d'gal

[awesumdove]

Hi dutchgirl ~ I agree... you need to discipline your kids, particularly when they are young. However the laws have changed and the kids now adays know how to push our buttons, and they know how to call the law. Unfortunately, at that point I would have to say good bye.

But back when one of my daughters & granddaughter was living with us (late 80's) my granddaughter proceeded to have a temper tantrum. My daughter didn't do anything, but I picked this little one up (less than 2 years old) off the floor and gave her several swats on the fannie. She was so surprised, stopped crying, and has never done it since.

Another incident occurred back in mid 80's when my daughters were in high school. They wanted these terribly expensive jeans which I could not afford. This was my hubby and mine's 2nd marriage, and we were already paying child support and alimony to his ex-wife, and I did not get any child support payments for either of my daughters because not all states have reciprocal laws as to child support, at least back then they didn't. Well I told them NO, if you wanted these expensive jeans you would have to buy them yourself. I am a true K-Mart mom and that was all I could afford. Well by golly, when they found out they would have to pay for the jeans themselves the whole issue just stopped. They did not want them if they had to buy and pay for them. Isn't that remarkable how they demand what they want IF you are going to have to pay for the jeans, but when it is they have to pay for the jeans, it becomes moot.

Another time my daughter was going out of town with BF for the weekend, and just before she was ready to leave wanted me to babysit for her. She just assumed because she lived with us that I was her built-in babysitter. Well, I told her NO, that she had plenty of time before this to ask me if I could/would babysit, and I didn't appreciate her taking advantage of me. Had I let her go off for the weekend, she would have forever in a day just assumed and taken advantage of me whenever she d**m well pleased. Again, she never did it again.

I guess it just proves you have to stand your ground no matter how old they are. I, unfortunately, learned too late about my youngest daughter, and wish that I could do some things over. Again, 20/20 is hindsight,

(((Hugs))) and prayers for all the mothers and dads on PTO. Amazing what you learn when it is hindsight. Bless you all ~~~

[Cactus]

All we can do as parents is to point out the right direction for our kids to go. We can live a good example, teach the child right from wrong. Be there to answer the tough questions, involve ourselves in their lives (school, sports, hobbies, etc.), feed, clothe, housing and protect. But at the end of the day, the child makes the final decision as to what path he or she will take. After a child is raised in a good home with good parents or good single parent and if that child makes a bad choice and ends up in prison, does that make you and I bad parents? I think NOT!
We as parents can only do the best that we can. My three children were raised by me as a single parent. All three went through college/universities and have had productive and responsible lives since. They could've chosen any path, but they seemed to have made the right choices. Does that make me any better than the parent who's children made bad choices??? Absolutely NOT. I know some really good parents where their child or children made some really bad choices. They are Christian, sent their children to private schools, spent lots of family time together, sports, travels, etc. Yet still their children got into drugs/alcohol related problems, etc. And I know some not so good parents who because of drugs or alcohol, divorce, or prison's were not there for their children, yet had over-come these harsh difficulties and/or environments, and grew-up to be good and responsible adult children.
Look, I know there are some exceptions, so don't get me wrong! There are many documented cases (mental disabilities, abuse) to prove that point. But for the most part, teaching our children 'accountability' is key (Some of us adults lack in that as well). In most cases I have seen, read about or have watched on television documentaries, that the absolute responsibility of choice lays upon the shoulders of the individual person, in this case the (adult) child.

[boop's mom]

Awesum, your post reminded me of an incident when my oldest had 1 child and called and asked me to babysit so she could sleep!! Now mind you I babysat my grandson almost full time for the first year or so so she could work. I told her plainly I had 4 kids and worked without the luxury of naps and she better get used to being tired! She has matured so much and it an excellent mom to 2 great kids.

[meg'smom]

I have been thinking about this thread for a few days now as i put a lot of blame on the system for what happened to my kids. I am extremly angry with the system here and more so with this particular state.
I have lived in several states and it is the same in most of them as far as society teaching our kids that is perfectly ok to call the police on your parents if they feel they are being abused. when we start giving this kind of power to young kids we are creating huge, huge, issues. then the law said that parents can not have access to a child medical records after the age of 13 espescially with girls becuase it is consider confindentail information. however we as parents are EXPECTED to pay for this medical care.
When i was down south i had slightly more abilty to discipline my children than i do here but i still got told i was not allowed to come back into a store becuase while shopping there one day my son had a fit and called me a bi--- and kicked me... well i turned around and smacked him which resulted in security being called i was threatend with child services. the whole time my son is smiling becuase he knew he got away with it.
after moving here my son was older and literally attacked me one day. I had to defend myself and in the process i hit him pretty hard as he trying to hit me with a lamp. the police were called and the officer had the **&^&**** nerve to tell me that he should arrest me for child abuse and went on to tell me i needed counseling in front of my son!!!!! never mind that my son had hurt me. another time my son tried to push me down the stairs becuase i refused to buy him a game and when i went to defend myself again he threatened to call the police ... he left that night to his fathers for 3 months until his father refused to deal with him either.
The police here and court sustem have not helped me in anyway until sadly my daughter was arrestted and this is what got through to my son and he has made incredible changes.
as far as my daughter she IS a Drug addict and was on juvinile probation for a year before this happened. Never once had a clean screen and her Probation officer did not care!!!!!!! the officer was only concerned that she completed high school..... well she did graduate and now is spending the rest of her life in prison for a drug related crime..... thanks!!!!..... i have an educated inmate.
I have screamed for years that i needed help with these kids and the system refused to listen to me. the system always wanted to punish me yet i was the only one trying to raise them. the system is absolutly backwards and desperatly needs fixed.
I hear all the time from the agencies that there is not enough workers or not enough programs or not enough money.. well my thought is ... if the government would get their nose out of parents and thier rights to discipline thier children there may not be as high a number of young people who need these services.
it is ridculous how the police and child services interfere with parents and prevent us from disciplining our children. the system merely locks them up and rehabilation is a joke..let's be honest.... all we are doing is creating monsters. some of these kids are soo angry and we lock them up for years and years and then they do get released we sit here and scratch our heads trying to figure out why they are worse than before?????
I am furious with the system and i have heard my daughter tell me that she wishes she had gotten help before now as well. she has been drug free for almost a year now and she has told me the same thing, that she would of been dead..... but i ask why did the 25 doctors and all the courts and therapists and rehab we have went through do nothing to help. there are no conseqeunces for young kids under 18 really...... then when they turn 18 the courts says ...well you are now an adult so now you have to pay to price.
My son spent 5 months in a faculity recently for B&E charges related to drugs and even though he did not like it, he still was treated to movies every week, outings with the staff to restaurants, three visits a week from family, nightly phone calls that were free, ice cream parties, christmas parties, private schooling, a comfortable room to sleep in and free medical care along with counseling and such....... now in my son's case i truly think what really turned him around was seeing his sister NOT come home. the realization that she is doing life and the courts are NOT going to play with him in a couple of years. but what about the kids who do not have that situation in their life? this was more of a day camp than anything. For some kids this place was nicer than where they came from so where is the movitvation to not come back. Now that he is home his drug and alcohol counselor comes over and tell me that she is going to drug test him but it is ok if he fails the first couple of times becuase they understand that he might go back at first.......EXCUSE ME?????? this is NOT ok!!!! and yeserday she calls me to tell me she is picking him to take him to a museum today???? Again here we go......... I am beyond frustrated with our system. let's keep babying these kids until their 18 then all the sudden the face the adult system.
to be honest if i would of been able to kick Megan's butt real good one time she might not be where she is!!! but as all young kids she learned how to play the system when she was little and used it agiasnt me as most of our kids do.Now she is telling me she wishes she had listened becuase she never thought this would happen. a little too late now.
I know i am going on about this, but this whole situation really fires me up becuase i DO blame the system for loosing my daughter and I am praying that my son wakes up real fast before i loose him too!
However one more thought i want to share with you just to show you how STUPID this system is..... when i lived down south Megan was maybe 15 at the time and she would sneak out of the house in the middle of the ngiht to go get high or run around with older men..... well I can not stay up all night to guard this kid and i am a single parent and was working almost 60 hours a week trying to support them. well i tried locks on the inside of the doors and got a dog to alert me when she snuck out the back and she still managed to do it.... I got a lock for my door for the inside that you needed a key to get out and i kept the key in my bra.... so she started climbing out the windows well then i boarded up her window at night. then this kid calls the police and i got in trouble for locking up my house!!!!!! but then they also want to punish me when she is caught in the middle of the night in a Crack house!!!! well hell you wont let me do what i need to keep her in the house but then you punish me when she sneaks out????? Another time i removed everything from her room including ALL clothes until she could act right..... she was left with a mattress and blanket and one outfit which she was wearing..... well she waited until i went to sleep and called a friend who brought her an outfit and she still snuck out....... what am I supposed to do at this point????
I could go on for hours about things i have tried and done to stop these kids from doing what they were doing but it would turn into a book.
Something needs to change with our system to put the abilty to discipline our children back into our hands. My Father whupped my butt ONE time and I knew after that never, never, never challenge him again. I did not turn out to be some horrible person for it.
well i need to stop now becuase i can feel my blood pressure going up...... I am soo very angry with our government and system, I am not sure i will ever not be.

[awesumdove]

Good post Lori ~ I, and I think many others, share your frustration of being on this double-edge sword of discipline. On the one hand we know the kids need discipline, and on the other hand government has interfered in our lives and church and our rights as parents to take the lead. Criminy, you can't even say the Lord's Prayer or any other prayers in school or meetings anymore. Has our government no shame? and all because a few small fragmented groups don't want prayer because it supposedly "offends them." Give me a break... What about our rights TO have prayer.

All, and I literally mean all, the kids know how to push our buttons. Yes, the majority of our kids turn out to be quite successful, but the ones that need help are left behind for us to deal with, and no one cares anything about them or the discipline needed, except to say and punish the parents because they have the authority to do so. And yet in some cases a child can truly be being abused, and one after one of the caseworkers ignores all the facts & signs of what is going on until the child is found dead ....

After seeing so many posts here and throughout PTO, along with the unjust & unfair sentences so many have received, I have come to the conclusion that I do NOT believe in our judicial & legal system anymore! And, I have completely changed my mind on the Death Penalty. I am no longer in favor of the Death Penalty. There are too many innocent people coming to light after serving years and years and years in the prison system because a prosecutor would not admit he was wrong (even to the extent that there is proof that the inmate is innocent.) Not only are some of our young adult/children being punished unfairly (after turning into an adult @ 18) and I don't mean just Ohio's but the whole USA, I am sure there many that are innocent, and you know what... sometimes you just cannot prove that it wasn't you that did a horrible crime. What to do??? I don't know, but who's got the money to fight the government and the judicial system, and the lawyers. Any suggestions... anybody?

Sorry, but I am very down about this whole judicial system, and "who is greasing whose hands." It certainly causes me great concern about the disparity of our courts.

[addictsmom]

Lori, I agree 1000%. I can go on and on for days too about stories of what I did for Tish. She never called the cops on me and I think that is only because she was always in some kind of trouble and figured the cops would of arrested her in the end. That did happen one time when she called them for something else. She winded up going to jail instead of the other person.

I also screwed Tisha's window shut, I grounded her from make up, blow dryer, even hair spray when she was younger. She could care less. When she was skipping school in the 10th grade, I took her car away and told her she would have to walk to school from now on. You guessed it, she did not go to school at all and informed me that she would not ever walk to school so until I gave her car back, she would not go. I started taking her every day, dropping her off at the front door, was there in the afternoon when she walked back out those doors. After doing this for 5 weeks, I found out that she was walking straight out the back door in the morning and walking back in as the bell rang and back out into my car. Nothing worked with her. I went through hell and back to get her commited to a pshych ward when she was 19 as she was a danger to herself. She had overdosed twice already where she had to be resucitated. After 4 hours, they released her and informed me that she was of age and if she wanted to kill herself, she had the right to do that. I cannot say that I blame the government for her problems, but I can tell you that when she turned 18, all my options of help were out the window. I could not carry her on my insurance anymore as she was not in college. Without insurance, you cannot get any quality rehab. Damn, you cant get any rehab at all. And the SAFP program that she just went to for a year is NOT rehab. It is a mental torture program liken to a Nazi concentration camp that has made her more angry than ever. I dont know if she would have been better off in a regular prison or not...... I just dont know anymore about much of anything.

Diane