GLBT detention centers

[prsnpal]

Does anyone know of any gay specific detention centers in the US? I know that the LA county jail has K-11 and I heard that Riker's also has a gay section.

Any others?

[PTO-29412]

I am sorry I do not know of any, Some states may have one in the county jail, but I do not believe that they have any in a state system.

[Ken]

In the state system it is different from state to state and even facility to facility. The 'mood' is different with staff and with other Prisoners... I am not however aware of any segregation other than protective custody.

[Ken]

Is there a particular reason that you are asking?

[prsnpal]

Just doing some research. K11 in Los Angeles is, in fact, a gay segregated section of the LA county jail, and I'm trying to find out if it's totally unique or if others exist.

[LeeS269]

It makes sense to me.. Uneducated people would think it was an orgy ward.. .But in actuallity it would level the playing field and allow them to feel safe.

Count me in (but keep me out!)

[Ken]

Actually, I disagree - with respect here of course. If you are going to separate the 'gays' then why not the Blacks and the Whites? Why not every 'group'? I am gay and would never want to find myself in prison, but don't necessarily feel that we need or want to be segregated. Oh - look - there are all the 'fags' over in that housing unit.

[LeeS269]

I like your tag line.... it's definitely become true in our lives!

It's good to have discussions like these. I've heard alot of stories where anyone presumed gay were used, sold and traded by other prisoners as sex slaves. If this is true then separating us would eliminate that.

I don't have the answers. The best thing would be for them to just give me my partner back right now and leave us alone. ... but that's not happening. I just want him back safe, sane and healthy.

How can we keep LGBT prisoners safe?

[Ken]

Lee,

I agree with what you are saying... but how can we keep LGBT Prisoners safe? I don't unfortunately have the answer to that...

We need a bigger force on PTO of 'Us' to come together... that was the biggest challenge I had in the beginning was finding someone that understood what I thought to be my unique situation. In reality we are essentially the same as all the members on this site and dealing with a partner or loved one that is incarcerated... many of our issues are the same - BUT many are different. So much depends on the individual that is in prison, how long they have been inside, and how strong they are...

I wish I knew how to find more of us to join PTO and come together as a larger force so that we could have discussions and help to create change.

When I first came to PTO there was not a GLBT forum and there was not for some time - 'We' posted our issues in the Husbands and Boy Friends forum. There were only a few of us here and we did a lot via PM with each other. Fed-X gave in to me and we opened this forum. This forum has certainly helped some, but I have always hoped that it would be busier...

I don't in principle disagree with segregation of GLBT Prisoners because then I think that life would be in certain circumstances easier... but I think that it would open a whole new can of worms.... new and unforseen issues would develop out of this. Mainly, I just don't think that the DOC's would ever consider it wide spread.

[Phil in Paris]

I tend to agree with Teb about segregation. As gay we mainly want to be recognized as part of the society and be integrated in society. That's what we claim when we ask for marriage or such issues.

Concerning our safety while incarcerated, I don't think that we would be safe even in an "all gay" unit. I do think there would still be rapes and predators. Being gay doesn't necessarily mean being "all nice and behaving".

Phil

[LeeS269]

I just think it would level the playing field for them. Every group has it's creeps, perverts and thugs... we'd be no different.

I agree completely that in society we want to be integrated and simply do all of the things everyone else does. But in prison there are different societal rules and the guards are NOT there to protect them. Joe says that if someone says Nigger or Spic the guards write tickets... but if they say faggot or Queer they often join in or just let it continue.

Do we have anyone online that was in Prison? It's difficult for us to discuss this when so much of it is just from the fear we've created in our imagination of what's happening in there.

This is a nice lively discussion!! Thanks for keeping it active and civil.

Are there any other GLBT members in Michigan?

Lee!

[Phil in Paris]

Originally Posted by LeeS269

I agree completely that in society we want to be integrated and simply do all of the things everyone else does. But in prison there are different societal rules and the guards are NOT there to protect them. Joe says that if someone says Nigger or Spic the guards write tickets... but if they say faggot or Queer they often join in or just let it continue.

Lee, I honestly think this is happening anywhere, not only in prisons.

I guess Jonathan will join the discussion and bring his opinion as a gay ex-inmate.

Phil

[LeeS269]

I know I'm not being bought, sold or traded as a sex slave... even after a few beers when I wouldn't mind it ;-0

As for the name calling... I think all groups are called names. But in prison condoning harrassing GLBT with names could quickly lead to violence since it becomes obvious that the guards are willing to look the other way.

[Phil in Paris]

Originally Posted by LeeS269

I know I'm not being bought, sold or traded as a sex slave... even after a few beers when I wouldn't mind it ;-0

ROFLMAO !!!!

Actually, it's not only the gay who are bought sold or traded as sex slaves.

Phil

[amznbert]

I would have to agree, i wouldnt want to be stuck in a all gay unit. I guess it comes down to the fact that honestly its no one buisness if i am gay.

name calling happens to every one, no matter what/who you are, gay/white/jewish/black/hispanic/polish/Fat/skinny its a sad mechinism that kids learn to make them selfs feel beter. by putting some one else down or calling them names they trying to make them selfs look better to either themselfs or to a peer group, so when some one says "hey fag" or "your a fag" and the other people around them laugh they feel that they have gained a little bit of acceptance from thouse around them. Then as an adult we never really unlearn this trait exspecialy adult men.

The feeling of needing to be accepted and some what loved is extreamly powerful. Just look at gay culture over the last few years, look how much its become to mimic the strait culture, The push for marrage, forming families, adoption, and just plan people trying to be them selfs.

I am not old enought to remeber how the 80's or the eairly 90's were for the gay culture but just looking back at gay cinima and heck even how people view the Aids crisis. I dont see people doing drag where they ware big costumes i.e. pricilla queen of the desert, Now the drag shows are more and more how much they can look like a real female.
And now there is resurgents in barebacking?????WTF??? I admit i only have one friend who is dieing of Aids and honestly I am not worried about losing him next week, but i know that I want a lifelong commited relationship so out of my own fears that i dont ever have to put some one else though the worry of me dieing from Aids. (thats not the only reason, but its the reson i dont have sex out side a relationship)

But all in all, I do feel that this forum will get more members as people become less and less comitment fobic and are able to form longer lasting commited relationships.
but hey thats just my thought and i am wrong alot so who knows

[Phil in Paris]

Do the gay actually mimic the straight, or do they want the same right as citizens having the same duties ???

I'm all for the gay marriage and adoption, not because I want to mimic the straight, but just because I feel it should be my right, as a tax payer and productive worker citizen. What makes me so different from my straight neighbors that I couldn't get married to the person I love ?? Is it just a sex matter ?? In this case it means we are not full part citizens.

I don't care about adopting children myself, but I'm all for the gay couples being able to do it if they wish it.

Since you're too young to remember, I'm gonna tell you what we were doing in the 80's: we were in the streets, proudly shouting that we exist. Gosh, does this statement make me sound like an old dude ?? The consequences of what we did in the 80's is that today we can proudly say "I'm gay" and it's no big deal.

The drag queens is only a part of the gay culture, we also have Andy Warhol, André Gide and Tom of Finland.

Also, what I really think is that today both the gay and straight "cultures" are learning from each other's and taking things from each other's. Look how the straight are mimicking (sp?) us: they adopted our tank tops, our Calvin Klein underwears and our low cut hairstyle. Today it's sometimes hard to tell who's gay and who's straight.

I don't really now where I'm going to with this post, and I wonder if I'm not off topic. Maybe I'd better shut up.

Phil

[amznbert]

lol

Sorry i think i used the wrong word when i said mimic, i ment to draw the alusion to the paralel cultures. I total belive having the Same and Equal rights as strait people do. I was just trying to point out how people change to feel accepted.

And saidly still saying "I am gay" is a big deal, it can get you fired, kicked out of your home, denighed basic public services here in the US.

We still need people like you Phil to continue shouting in the streets that we are here and proud, we just need to add the voice of todays younger generations with it.

I am the last person to talk about gay culture since i am so far detatched from it, but as i get older and more accepting of my self i find my self looking for that kind of connection with socity, and sadly gentelmen Queer eye for the strait guy, QAF, and gay bars are not keeping me connected.

[Phil in Paris]

Actually, I never had any problem being gay, be it during my military service or my professional life. Well, I started my professional life as a flight attendant, so if you're not gay, you're in the cockpit

I couldn't say it's because I'm living in Paris, because my best friends bought a house in the country side 2 years ago, where we go every summer, and the neighbors did accept us. Last summer my friends made a house warming party for the neighborhood, and everyone invited came and had fun. They even decorated the house and made a big "Welcome to Castelnau Chalosse" poster while we were sleeping.

Gay can't be discriminated in France for a job, apartment or whatever. It is ILLEGAL, so maybe I can consider myself lucky living there.

I'm not a big gay activist, but I do go out in the Paris gay district with my gang and have fun.

When I visited Joey last month, I had no problem with the C/Os, they were all very polite and friendly, and they knew I didn't come visit him because I was his brother... BUT we had a problem with a female guard because I was rubbing his calf (Joey's, not the female guard's ) and I felt discriminated. It's probably the first time in my life I ever felt discriminated.

I mean OK we were breaking the rule, but I was just rubbing his calf while straight couples around us were actually doing worse and this female guard didn't say anything. So to me it was descrimination. But I didn't say anything, I didn't wanna lose my visits over this, and I still think it's not normal. Anywhere else, in any other situation, I would have opened my big mouth and protest.

Phil

[amznbert]

Well where I am is America, and well all know how back asswards we are around here mostly. I was denighed housing twice in kentucky becouse i showed up with my transexual friend to look at an apartment...they didnt want to rent to some one who would bring "those kinds of people" around

If i was a little more fluent in my french i would have already moved there years upon years ago..the same could have been said about my german...or latin, or greek, or the other 3 languages i studdied in school...

[PTO-29412]

WHEW!!! You guys have been busy today! lol

Having been in prison, recently, I can understand both sides of this discussion. But here is my thoughts.

While in prison, you have so many basic human rights that are taken away from you. One of the main reasons it might be better for "US" to be seperated from main population, is because you do not have the heavy gang influence trying to extort you, you don't have the constant fear of being attacked/raped, and you are locked up in a small space with a bunch of fussy queens.

However housing gays seperately than the general population is only going to work on those who admit to being gay/bi, and is only going to apply mainly to the ones that are open about their sexuality.

So while it might get the "queens" safe, their are still several out there that need it just as much.

ON THE OTHER HAND!
Allowing the DOC to seperate us, and brand us as unworthy of being generally housed, and not being treated equal, is one of the things we have been fighting for the right to have for many years.

How can we expect the government to give us equal rights, when we are constantly screaming to give us certain special ones.

If you seperate the gays, then you would have to seperate the blacks, whites, hispanics. As well as the Jews, Baptist, Catholics, Methodist, Jehovas Witnesses, Muslims. Because if you didn't each of those groups would want the special protection as well.

While I was in prison, I didn't have alot of problems, one of the main reasons, I was "shacking" up with one of the heads of a gang. I was in a medical unit because of my health due to my eating disorder at that time, and since I was in a medical unit, we had more "fussy Queens" on the zone. Since I was "with" a gang member, in the prison setting, that placed me over the "queens". Any problemes came up with one of them, I was approached, told to fix it. And if I didn't, they got dealt with.

Prison is all about respect. If you treat yourself with dignity and respect, as well as EVERYONE in that prison, you will be treated the same. As I said I had very few problems, and actually got along with everyone regardless of race, religion, or affiliation.

Alot of people think that if you are gay and in prison, that you are going to become the prison "bitch". This is not neccesarily true. The ones that want that, get that. If you go and in hit on every Tim, Dick, and Harry that you come across. You are going to have a hard time. However, if you go in, stick to yourself, stay to your bunk/area, and let others approach you. MUCH BETTER!

I may have gone off track a little on this! Did I answer your questions? Please post them away, cause this is a topic I love to discuss! Hope that it helps some!

[amznbert]

I will take my chances with the straits over a bunch of fussy queens any day...I have seen a 150# queen take down a samoin(sp?) bouncer ok...talk about being fierce...

I just want socity to stop looking at what I am and start looking at who I am.

[Phil in Paris]

Jonathan,

What was the percentage of gay guys where you were ???

Phil

[Ken]

Holding open discussions like this - specifically addressing and discussing issues with GLBT Prisioners will help us to raise awareness and make change. It all starts with healthy discussion and more than anything - awareness and real information.

[PTO-29412]

Phil,

Out of 90 inmates in a zone, we had 23 gay guys.