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My Mo Guy · #1 10-23-2007, 07:59 PM

Help please, does anybody know what to do? My fiance is at ERDCC in MO. He is only a couple weeks away from getting to the honor house and Feb to go before the board. They drop a ua on him and tell him it is diluted. He swears he got up went to the bathroom went to breakfast and drank some coffee, they then did the ua, (watched him) then made him drink two glasses of water and made him sit for two hours watched all the time. Yesterday they gave him a violation for diluted urine and made him lockdown for the day. He swears his is innocent and will re-take the test or do hair or blood test anything. I talked to his counselor today twice and he says there is no way to help him. If it came back diluted (nothing said about positive or neg) just dilutated he has no recourse. He also said he would be looking at 10 days to 90 days in the hole. My fiance just wants out of that house into the honor house and a good report when he goes before the board in Feb. This will set everything back and just seems to be another way for MO to warehouse one more prisoner. He doesn't have the greatest track record, but is working so hard to accomplish these two goals he just wouldn't jeapordize himself in this way. In just a couple of weeks he will have been clean for 6 mos. How does he fight this?

Christy · #2 10-24-2007, 06:39 AM

Diluted urine doesn't mean positive or negative. It happens when someone has drank too much liquid before taking the test. It usually means they are trying to flush their system so that the urine will be weak and the test not able to detect anything. Something about this doesn't sound right. First off, they do the random testing in the middle of the night. They do this so that they will wake the offenders up and there is no chance of them switching urine with someone else or having a diluted specimen. Second, if he sat for 2 hours and drank two glasses of water, that will NOT make the urine diluted. They are required to sit like that if they cannot produce a specimen or the first was diluted. They have to sit there until they can go again. They always witness the testing because some people will switch up the urine for someone who is clean.

Something in that story is not right. I would be questioning him at this point.

bbwlisahar · #3 10-24-2007, 10:40 AM

I concur with Christy on this. If they tell him they are going to do a UA on him, they aren't going to allow him to go to the bathroom, go to breakfast, drink coffee, then do the UA on him. It's a random thing and when you get the notice of the UA, it's done right then. They don't allow you to go off and do your own thing for an hour or so then come back and pee in a cup. If you get "performance anxiety" and can't "perform" then you are given a cup of water and watched like a hawk until you can "perform".

My Mo Guy · #4 10-24-2007, 03:18 PM

Maybe I said this wrong. He didn't know they were going to do the UA, that is how his morning started then they came in and did the UA. They didn't tell him it was a surprise to him also. They have been dropping them on him quite frequently lately and always clean. He is really upset because he isn't quilty of anything and seems to have no way to prove it.

LuvMyManInMO · #5 10-24-2007, 03:33 PM

A dilute specimen can be caused by 2 circumstances. The first is very rare, and would be caused by an individual diluting the urine with water, or other liquid, by actually pouring it into the specimen at the time of collection. - I'm sure that this wasn't done since they watched his move during the test

The second method of obtaining a dilute specimen is by consuming too many liquids, especially liquids that contain diuretics, prior to collection (ie coffee, soda pop, medications, etc). This may be inadvertent or may be on purpose on the part of the donor.

In order to obtain a specimen that is not dilute, have the individual void after waking in the morning and
drink 2 8oz glasses of orange juice (no coffee, pop, etc).

From what I have seen in the past is that the offender is awakened up during the night to perform the test. This making it harder to have a diluted specimen. I'm really shocked that they would even try to test him after breakfast. If I where in your shoes I would start w/ confirming what time they dropped on him and after you confirm that and you man is telling you the truth. I would fight to get the error corrected!!!

Christy · #6 10-24-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Mo Guy

Maybe I said this wrong. He didn't know they were going to do the UA, that is how his morning started then they came in and did the UA. They didn't tell him it was a surprise to him also. They have been dropping them on him quite frequently lately and always clean. He is really upset because he isn't quilty of anything and seems to have no way to prove it.

Normally they do the testing in the very early morning hours. Usually around 1 or 2 am. This ensures the surprise aspect of the test.

edit to add: all the drug tests are random. Nobody knows when the will get dropped on. It's also the luck of the draw. Sometimes guys will go for months without being tested and other times they will get it 2 or 3 times a month.

*Ken* · #7 11-04-2007, 04:15 AM

I have an opinion on 'diluted UA's' and that is that they are non-conclusive and they are subjective at best, and they are a way to issue a violation to hold someone down and not prove anything.

If they do in fact have a system to do surprise UA's then no one should come up with a 'diluted' test result.

This is just another system malfunction in my opinion.

prayingformyson · #8 11-04-2007, 10:39 AM

Is it true that even when an inmate is given a surprise UA, there's only a 50-50 chance that it will be tested?? I've been told this, but can't imagine it being correct..

Christy · #9 11-04-2007, 03:35 PM

I don't know for sure, but that is the rumor.

prayingformyson · #10 11-04-2007, 05:00 PM

I've been told that the P&P and DOC can't afford to "regularly" do UA tests so their random and then even those are random!!!!! Seems like a poor system to discourage drug use!!!!!!!!!! (I understand,those who are tempted/addicted to drugs SHOULD be able to say no on their own, but here in the real world, that just isn't reality!!!!!)

Christy · #11 11-05-2007, 06:29 AM

I would think that the threat of it, whether or not they actually test it, is something that MOST people would be wary of! That's the thought process behind the random drug tests anywhere.

prayingformyson · #12 11-05-2007, 03:40 PM

Christy, I agree 100% with you, BUT I'm not addicted to drugs, so it's really a mute point, I just wonder if it would make a difference if those who do have drug addictions or simply like to dabdrugs, knew beyond a shadow of a doubt they would be tested on a regular basis and ALL drug tests would be sent off for evaluation! I'm not looking for someone to blame just wondering..... how we're going to curb drug use...

My Mo Guy · #13 11-06-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebkrg

I have an opinion on 'diluted UA's' and that is that they are non-conclusive and they are subjective at best, and they are a way to issue a violation to hold someone down and not prove anything.

If they do in fact have a system to do surprise UA's then no one should come up with a 'diluted' test result.

This is just another system malfunction in my opinion.

Thank YOU, I completely agree and know that he wouldn't do it intentionally expecially now. He got 10 in the hole and will be reffered to ad seg and I really don't know how that will work. He is afraid it will be for 90 days and is miserable as well as it being a bogus test, he begged them to do a retest and witness which Understand they should be allowed to have and they refused. If he does have to do the 90 it will be just before his parole and it is going to look bad. That in itself is why I belive in him so much. he just wants out. He is a first time offender and to be in ERDCC is the worst from what I hear.

mjd · #14 11-06-2007, 04:00 PM

I don't know if ERDCC is the worst place. My opinon but all the prsion are not that great.

~*Cherry*~ · #15 11-16-2007, 03:38 PM

My boyfriend is also in the hole right now for the same reason and he said they are basing it on some sort of creatine level. Being that they are random and unplanned I just dont get how they can punish them saying they are diluted when they dont even know they are coming. He drinks water on the regular anyway because he works out alot. Thats not a crime and not trying to cover up anything either. It really pisses me off because now it has messed up his out date. Is there anyway to fight this?

Christy · #16 11-16-2007, 05:38 PM

When the urine is diluted, the creatinine level is down and this is usually indicitive of someone trying to flush a system. Some people have naturally diluted urine, but it is rare. They also do the random testing late in evening or early morning hours when they have to wake someone up. I'm not saying that his urine wasn't diluted because of the water he drank, but normally, this is because someone is trying to flush their system and that is why they get in trouble for it. It's unfortunate and unfair to many, but it is what it is.

I don't think there is a way to fight it. When it's diluted, it is not testable to even see if there are drugs in it. He can maybe check with a caseworker and try to appeal the violation, but this usually won't work either. It's very difficult to fight any violation unless there is visual proof like videotape.

I wish there was a better answer for you.