Immigration Reform- my 5 point plan

[SugarGirl]

I'm a little politicially minded and, over the years, I've come up with some ideas for proposed legislation. Mostly, only conservatives have seen it but I'd like to test the waters with you guys.

Tell me what you think about these ideas:

The plan is premised on no legislation will ever make either Pubs or Dems totally happy. So, I am suggesting compromises on key issues.

Suga's 5 Point Immigration Plan:

1- Secure the borders with troops
2- Change the laws to make it easier for gainfully employed immigrants to get citizenship. Give employers 1 year to register their illegal employees at little cost. Let the working folks stay. After the first year, charge high fines to any employer caught hiring illegals.
3- Grandfather in families with children who are U.S. citizens. Make the process affordable and less complex. Rubber stamp these folks.
4- Let the police ask for proof of citizenship after the 1 year grace period following the new terms for staying.
5- Any people in the U.S. that are here illegal after the above items are fully implemented, deport.

Pubs have to give on points two and three. Dems give on point four and five. It's a win/win. Honest, hardworking people with families who are building their lives get to stay but we give authorities enough room to cull out people here that are not productive citizens.

I know it is controversial. Please feel free to rip the ideas apart. I won't get offended. All I ask is that you attack the ideas and not the poster.

[times_up]

only bad part is, you have to throw in those that have already been deported, that are back in the States.... those with crimes and the nature of the crimes.... and then factor in all those damn rednecks that have a problem with anything immigrant.

[SugarGirl]

Originally Posted by times_up

only bad part is, you have to throw in those that have already been deported, that are back in the States.... those with crimes and the nature of the crimes.... and then factor in all those damn rednecks that have a problem with anything immigrant.

I put the first point as taking care of the borders bc, if deported, it shouldn't be so easy to get back in. I think if more people were allowed to become citizens and we made the process easier, we wouldn't see so much crime. ya know?

Damn rednecks. There just no reasoning with them.

Thanks for your reply.

[vannaabernathy]

Originally Posted by times_up

only bad part is, you have to throw in those that have already been deported, that are back in the States.... those with crimes and the nature of the crimes.... and then factor in all those damn rednecks that have a problem with anything immigrant.

>>Haha this just reminded me of a mexican guy in my town before that drove around a car that had a sticker visor that said Redneck and was colored like the rebel flag..<< Sry. I know that was off subject.. I just still find it kinda funny.

[Mark2008]

Some decent ideas there.

I would have a problem with grandfathering in people who have no legit business in the US. They come in illegally, have kids and then try to use the kids as a reason to stay. Well, duh! Take the kids back with you.

Bottom line: There are too many Hispanics in the US right now. Many of whom never even bother to learn English and are ruining the country. If someone wants to come and assimilate to the American culture, I have a little more leeway for them. But don't dare bring your own damn culture with you! If you want to live in America, learn English, act and dress like an American, not a foreigner.

It would be like me going to Japan and trying to act American. It would be an insult to the Japanese.

[pamela_c]

There are no laws when you go to any other country that you have to act like the people from that country. Why should it be that way here? It is in one's best interest to assimilate into whatever country or culture they are visiting or living in, but I know of nowhere that it is illegal to be whatever you are. It only creates hardship for yourself if you choose not to climatize to your surrounding conditions, but that is one's choice. I live in an area where it snows alot in the winter, should we make it illegal to wear flipflops here in the winter because natives don't?
Our country was not founded on those kinds of principles, nor should it be that narrowminded now.
Generations ago, it is likely that your preceding family members came here speaking another language and were not FORCED to learn English. They CHOSE to in the name of progress for their lives and family. I see no reason to change things now.
And should religious beliefs, political beliefs, etc, etc be controlled by our government? I don't think so. And what you are saying would lead us down the path of a very scary government that before long might not be too far from the Taliban.

[bunnieRR]

wow those are some harsh words marc i understand everyone has there own point of view but you specifically singled out Hispanics would it be ok if there were more "asian" people in the USA. i think we are forgetting that the USA wasnt always just "white folk" or "non hispanic" people... part of the USA WAS mexico... what do you think makes this country what it is?? the diffrent cultures that are in it the diffrent nationalities and languages and backrounds... im sure if you looked in to your backround you would learn that your family brought with them... "THIER CULTURE" to... you cant say that "hispanics" are the cause of all the issues in our country... they are not the only ones in the prison and jail systems in fact in 2005 6.4 percent of federal and state inmates were non-citizens which means that 93.6% were legal USA american citizens... funny how if you take a look at it, it seems like we are the ones actually ruining this country.... Crime is crime... people who do drugs do drugs people who steal lie and cheat do just that... it doesnt make it ok no matter what backround your from...

I am hispanic Filipino... i was born here my parents came here in 1978 they are both citizens and they are both hard working people. everyone makes mistakes... but no one should be blaimed more for it based on were they originally came from...

this is my opinion and frankly i dont care what anyone thinks of it.

[SugarGirl]

Marc, I added the grandfathering stuff because many, many immigrants have children who were born in the U.S. and are therefore U.S. citizens. We can't ship out the parents and keep the kids. The parents have to stay also.

[esteli]

Originally Posted by SugarGirl

I'm a little politicially minded and, over the years, I've come up with some ideas for proposed legislation. Mostly, only conservatives have seen it but I'd like to test the waters with you guys.

Tell me what you think about these ideas:

The plan is premised on no legislation will ever make either Pubs or Dems totally happy. So, I am suggesting compromises on key issues.

Suga's 5 Point Immigration Plan:

1- Secure the borders with troops
2- Change the laws to make it easier for gainfully employed immigrants to get citizenship. Give employers 1 year to register their illegal employees at little cost. Let the working folks stay. After the first year, charge high fines to any employer caught hiring illegals.
3- Grandfather in families with children who are U.S. citizens. Make the process affordable and less complex. Rubber stamp these folks.
4- Let the police ask for proof of citizenship after the 1 year grace period following the new terms for staying.
5- Any people in the U.S. that are here illegal after the above items are fully implemented, deport.

Pubs have to give on points two and three. Dems give on point four and five. It's a win/win. Honest, hardworking people with families who are building their lives get to stay but we give authorities enough room to cull out people here that are not productive citizens.

I know it is controversial. Please feel free to rip the ideas apart. I won't get offended. All I ask is that you attack the ideas and not the poster.

#1 the border patrol is troops enough!
#2 becoming a citizen isn't really a problem. the problem is becoming a legal resident of the United States. to go from illegal to legal is what is tricky for most folks right now. if employers register illegal employees, how does that give them legal status? there are certain requirements that must be met to become legal, you can't just become legal because you are employed. So are you suggesting they change this to if you have a job, any job that is reason enough to qualify for legal status? As of right now, you can become legal through employment, but it must be a job that you uniquely qualify for. Usually it has to be a profession with years of college work not just any job.
#3 Okay I agree with you here. Because yes they do that now but the process is long and complex and very expensive.
#4, are you saying that because I'm brown and not white, the cops are allowed to make me prove I'm a citizen on the spot or else? What if you have a heavy accent will that call for someone asking you to proof citizenship on the spot or else? Please explain Sugar, because right now I'm getting pictures of things that happened in Europe a few decades ago where you were forced to produce papers on trains, or other transporation and if you didn't have it they would take you away.
$5 OH hell no! That will never work, come on, this has been the problem for years. There has been amenesty, there have been other laws making illegals legal before, and yet the problem continues. People in the future will continue to come to the US somehow, someway. We can't be this kind of nation, not for me. There must be another solution that would allow people to find a way to be legal or apply for legal status, maybe given a time period to stay and then leave. Something much more humane in the treatment of illegals. A more pacifist way than militant. Maybe give an illegal certain amount of time to declare themselves, their intentions, etc. The govt' could give them a certain amount of time to leave the country. Well these are my thoughts. Probably not what the pubs are looking for right? I just believe these elements of dignity must be given in order for it to work. These people don't want to break laws, it's the hunger in their bellys that drives them in droves to our borders. Of course, criminals, drug dealers, etc, are already being dealt with strongly. So yes we are only talking about decent folk who just want to work and be law-abiding citizens.

[esteli]

Originally Posted by Mark2008

Some decent ideas there.

I would have a problem with grandfathering in people who have no legit business in the US. They come in illegally, have kids and then try to use the kids as a reason to stay. Well, duh! Take the kids back with you.

Bottom line: There are too many Hispanics in the US right now. Many of whom never even bother to learn English and are ruining the country. If someone wants to come and assimilate to the American culture, I have a little more leeway for them. But don't dare bring your own damn culture with you! If you want to live in America, learn English, act and dress like an American, not a foreigner.

It would be like me going to Japan and trying to act American. It would be an insult to the Japanese.

it take years and generations to assimilate into another culture. do you think Italians, Irish, Russians, or any other immigrant population did this right away?

Read up on history! Believe me, my thesis was exactly on cultural assimilation of Latinos by generation. beliefs, religions and customs, nothing really will change until you and your family has had some time. How much time? Not much, 2nd generation. Give it a chance.

[esteli]

Originally Posted by vannaabernathy

>>Haha this just reminded me of a mexican guy in my town before that drove around a car that had a sticker visor that said Redneck and was colored like the rebel flag..<< Sry. I know that was off subject.. I just still find it kinda funny.

LOL I had a hispanic friend who said all I have to do is wear a t-shirt that says I'm Puerto Rican. LOL As you know Puerto Ricans are all US citizens.

[esteli]

Originally Posted by SugarGirl

Marc, I added the grandfathering stuff because many, many immigrants have children who were born in the U.S. and are therefore U.S. citizens. We can't ship out the parents and keep the kids. The parents have to stay also.

This used to be the way immigration law was until it was changed in the 80s because too many women would come during their last pregnancy term only to give birth to the child in the US.

[SugarGirl]

Originally Posted by esteli

#1 the border patrol is troops enough!
#2 becoming a citizen isn't really a problem. the problem is becoming a legal resident of the United States. to go from illegal to legal is what is tricky for most folks right now. if employers register illegal employees, how does that give them legal status? there are certain requirements that must be met to become legal, you can't just become legal because you are employed. So are you suggesting they change this to if you have a job, any job that is reason enough to qualify for legal status? As of right now, you can become legal through employment, but it must be a job that you uniquely qualify for. Usually it has to be a profession with years of college work not just any job.
#3 Okay I agree with you here. Because yes they do that now but the process is long and complex and very expensive.
#4, are you saying that because I'm brown and not white, the cops are allowed to make me prove I'm a citizen on the spot or else? What if you have a heavy accent will that call for someone asking you to proof citizenship on the spot or else? Please explain Sugar, because right now I'm getting pictures of things that happened in Europe a few decades ago where you were forced to produce papers on trains, or other transporation and if you didn't have it they would take you away.
$5 OH hell no! That will never work, come on, this has been the problem for years. There has been amenesty, there have been other laws making illegals legal before, and yet the problem continues. People in the future will continue to come to the US somehow, someway. We can't be this kind of nation, not for me. There must be another solution that would allow people to find a way to be legal or apply for legal status, maybe given a time period to stay and then leave. Something much more humane in the treatment of illegals. A more pacifist way than militant. Maybe give an illegal certain amount of time to declare themselves, their intentions, etc. The govt' could give them a certain amount of time to leave the country. Well these are my thoughts. Probably not what the pubs are looking for right? I just believe these elements of dignity must be given in order for it to work. These people don't want to break laws, it's the hunger in their bellys that drives them in droves to our borders. Of course, criminals, drug dealers, etc, are already being dealt with strongly. So yes we are only talking about decent folk who just want to work and be law-abiding citizens.

hehehe...Let me guess...Democrat?

Yeah, esteli, I've thought through your points already. Like I said in my first posts, reform doesn't work unless both sides compromise.

I think that people who are in this country illegally should be deported. Period. Especially if we make an effort to do right by them and their families by laxing the difficult process of residency or citizenship.

As to the ID situation...I am not thrilled with that one but it is a major sticking point with pubs. If a cop pulls over a car load of folks for speeding, I don't have a problem with them asking for proof of citizenship if the folks are foreign. Kind of like how they first implemented the seat belt laws. The po-po couldn't pull folks over for not wearing them but, if a law was broke, they could write a ticket about the seat belt. This is how I believe point 4 should be implemented.

Border patrol is NOT enough as evidenced by all of the illegal folk in this country.

Yes, we all know how difficult it is to get residency, citizenship etc...I say make it easier and cheaper.