Pre Med transferable credits

[GOutletOutlet]

Hi everyone, my boyfriend was in pre-med before he went into prison. he hopes to be able to continue his pre med course in prison and possibly apply for medical school when he comes out. Is this possible? if so, what programs and which prisons offer them in california? any help is very appreciated.

[jellobean]

I'm not sure about California but a lot of places won't let you get a medical license as a felon.

[jasmine29]

Honestly, I don't think it would be a good idea for your boyfriend to do his pre-med courses in prison. Admissions committees want to see that he took challenging courses, while the academic rigor of science classes in prison is dubious at best. In the cutthroat world of med school admissions, that kind of transcript will not compete with coursework from respected undergraduate institutions. And can he even take lab classes in there? Science labs are crucial to developing the bench skills you need to do research, which is another crucial element of a solid application. If I were him, I'd wait until release to finish the pre-med coursework, and use his time to explore other avenues of study. Basic science classes will still be there when he gets out, and he can take them at a respected institution. Just my opinion. But for what it's worth, I'm at an Ivy League university, in a post-bacc program that's completely focused on pre-health students, and we learn a lot about med school admissions.

Another poster mentioned that some states don't issue medical licenses to felons - I don't know anything about that, but it's another major factor to consider.

[sisnik]

The licensing is something to consider because its a Federal thing. You have to get a DEA number and apply for state board licensing, and if you have a felony it MAY be a problem. With that said, nothing is impossible you just have to cover all your bases. I wish him all the blessings and I hope that he is successful in his venture into medicine.

[GOutletOutlet]

Thank you all for your advice. Does anyone know if he can still be a doctor in California? I know that is his only goal really.. i dont want to shatter his dreams.

[jasmine29]

After responding yesterday, I did a little bit more research on this. I still stand by my answer that he needs solid pre-med coursework at the very least, and should forget about doing it while incarcerated. But as far as being able to practice medicine... there are two factors. The first is that every medical school is going to ask on their application about whether he has been convicted of a felony. He will have to explain it, and depending on the crime, he might not even be able to get in to a medical school. Second, from my research, it's very hard to get licensed if one has a criminal background. In any state, you undergo a criminal background check when applying for a license to practice medicine. His crimes will come up.
For California specifically, I went to the website for the Medical Board of California, which issues licenses, and found this:

2082. Each application shall include the following:
(e) Either fingerprint cards or a copy of a completed Live Scan
form from the applicant in order to establish the identity of the
applicant and in order to determine whether the applicant has a
record of any criminal convictions in this state or in any other
jurisdiction, including foreign countries. The information obtained
as a result of the fingerprinting of the applicant shall be used in
accordance with Section 11105 of the Penal Code, and to determine
whether the applicant is subject to denial of licensure under the
provisions of Division 1.5 (commencing with Section 475) and Section
2221.

2221. (a) The board may deny a physician's and surgeon's
certificate to an applicant guilty of unprofessional conduct or of
any cause that would subject a licensee to revocation or suspension
of his or her license; or, the board in its sole discretion, may
issue a probationary physician's and surgeon's certificate to an
applicant subject to terms and conditions, including, but not limited
to, any of the following conditions of probation:
(1) Practice limited to a supervised, structured environment where
the licensee's activities shall be supervised by another physician
and surgeon.
(2) Total or partial restrictions on drug prescribing privileges
for controlled substances.
(3) Continuing medical or psychiatric treatment.
(4) Ongoing participation in a specified rehabilitation program.
(5) Enrollment and successful completion of a clinical training
program.
(6) Abstention from the use of alcohol or drugs.
(7) Restrictions against engaging in certain types of medical
practice.
(8) Compliance with all provisions of this chapter.
(9) Payment of the cost of probation monitoring.
(b) The board may modify or terminate the terms and conditions
imposed on the probationary certificate upon receipt of a petition
from the licensee.
(c) Enforcement and monitoring of the probationary conditions
shall be under the jurisdiction of the board in conjunction with the
administrative hearing procedures established pursuant to Sections
11371, 11372, 11373, and 11529 of the Government Code, and the review
procedures set forth in Section 2335.
(d) The board shall deny a physician's and surgeon's certificate
to an applicant who is required to register pursuant to Section 290
of the Penal Code. This subdivision does not apply to an applicant
who is required to register as a sex offender pursuant to Section 290
of the Penal Code solely because of a misdemeanor conviction under
Section 314 of the Penal Code.
(e) An applicant shall not be eligible to reapply for a physician'
s and surgeon's certificate for a minimum of three years from the
effective date of the final decision or action regarding the denial
of his or her application, except that the board may, in its
discretion and for good cause demonstrated, permit reapplication
after not less than one year has elapsed from the effective date of
the final decision or action regarding the denial.

So... in short... it's going to depend on his crime. If he has a drug-related, violent, or sex-offender crime, it's highly unlikely that he'll be able to practice medicine.

[jamfam]

Originally Posted by GOutletOutlet

Thank you all for your advice. Does anyone know if he can still be a doctor in California? I know that is his only goal really.. i dont want to shatter his dreams.

Oh gosh...I know this isn't want you want to hear but you can't become a doctor when you have a record. Maybe he could try something else in the medical field but as far as a title as a doctor goes...it's not possible as far as I know

[GOutletOutlet]

thank you jasmine for all that information.. i guess medical school is the least of his problems at the moment.

[luxpax]

"while the academic rigor of science classes in prison is dubious at best. In the cutthroat world of med school admissions, that kind of transcript will not compete with coursework from respected undergraduate institutions."

I'll grant you, pre-med admissions, and hence, many pre-meds are among the most cutthroat lifeforms on the planet. Four years as an EE at Hopkins watching the Organic Chemistry students adulterate each other's lab results to get a .01 GPA edge convinced me of that in a hurry (I shudder to think that some of these people that are now Hopkins minted M.D.'s!)

But I digress. I gather (mileage does vary) that many universities make no distinction on a transcript between distance/correspondence credits earned from the joint vs. the on-campus version. That, and the fact the solution to a third order partial differential equation is the same in the pen as it is at Yale (I know, I've worked them both places) would seem to put our friend at less of a disadvantage than one might think. That is: if we were talking an undergrad degree in French Romantic Poetry, yep, the Ivy sheepskin will put you in better stead, but ace grades in Chemistry, Physics etc. are viewed more or less equivalently across institutions - or so said those soulless pre-med (roomates, btw). Moreover, they pointed out that applying to Hopkins med (or any of the top ten) from Hopkins undergrad actually put them at a disadvantage in a way: tacitly acknowledged quota system being in play - only x number allowed from school y. Sometime's better to be a big fish from a small pond I heard one lament that got shot down at Mayo and ended up in...Greneda or somewhere.

As far as the record goes, just curious, but by the time you get out and take the MCAT's, and wait awhile maybe the NCIS record is clean? 7 years, or am I kidding myself about that? Cause then all you'd have to do is, spend some time in Ph.D land washing test tubes, and when the time came, lie your ass off on the application. Which is godawful and amoral so I wouldn't recommend it of course, but I swear some of the guys I knew would have eaten their young to get into Harvard.

[jasmine29]

Luxpax, I respect your opinion, but we're going to have to disagree to disagree. LOL. I have many physicians in my family, most of whom are med school faculty and some of whom have spent time on admissions committees. I worked for a medical school doing the research thing and spoke to many physicians there, who also served on ad coms or knew plenty about it. It took a lot of time to decide between doing post-bacc at a local or community college, and going the organized-program-big-name-school route. Due to my professional and personal connections I was able to talk to people who have sat in those rooms looking at the applications and deciding who's worthy. They all advised me to avoid community college courses at all costs. As much as chemistry is chemistry is chemistry whether you take it at Small Pond College or Hopkins/Harvard... ad coms would rather see your A's from Hopkins/Harvard. I know this because many members of ad coms past and present have told me so. Now that I'm actually enrolled in my classes and getting a great education, I'm glad I followed their advice. The quality of instruction at my university is excellent, plus my transcript is going to look good to admissions committees. Yes, it costs a lot more than other options might, but I look at the difference as a bit of insurance that the effort and time won't go to waste by ad coms scoffing at my community college A's. Snobbish? Probably. But like you said, pre-meds are cutthroat life forms, and we want to take advantage of every edge possible. I really, really, really want to go into medicine. In order to make that happen, I took advantage of every resource I had to make the best decision about how to build my academic record. As far as "only X people allowed in from School Y," that's valid - but not everyone is going to apply only to Hopkins. Did you know that only 50 percent of AMCAS applicants from a given year even get into ONE medical school? With that statistic, I'd so much rather take the chance of being a strong fish from a great pond than being the big fish in a small pond. The more advantageous points on my transcript, the better.

(However, I would NEVER alter someone's lab results or do anything of the like - that's just twisted. I prefer to expend all of my energy on building myself up, not tearing others down. But that's just me because it does happen!).

[JBoogiesLady]

Originally Posted by GOutletOutlet

Hi everyone, my boyfriend was in pre-med before he went into prison. he hopes to be able to continue his pre med course in prison and possibly apply for medical school when he comes out. Is this possible? if so, what programs and which prisons offer them in california? any help is very appreciated.

Depending on your bf's charge, it is possible for him to get a medical license G. What was he charged with if you don't mind my asking? As far as the pre-med courses, ALL of the science prerequisite courses for Medical School have a laboratory component. Even if the Prison coordinates distance education classes, there is no way the lab credit can be earned without participating in the lab. How old is your boyfriend? Be realistic when it comes to licensure and time. Never, ever, ever give up! Keep asking questions! Keep persevering. Keep us updated!
All the best,

[Phoenix_Rising]

i know I'm a little late weighing in on this, but I thought I would throw in my experience. I have a federal felony for fraud, which is considered "Moral Turpitude." I applied for a Psychological Assistant license and here in California the investigation is ran by the medical board, the same people who investigate Doctors. I was initially denied the license (I would have been supervised by someone as part of the process). I appealed, went to a hearing, I had all kinds of support, the judge wrote an opinion that I should be allowed to have the license, the board declined. So, years of Grad School, thousands of dollars in attorney fees and there's nothing I can do. The Boards here can do whatever they want, they are responsible for protecting the public and it's not worth it to them to take a risk on anyone questionable. I have one felony, which is my entire criminal record, I got 60 days in prison and was released from supervision early. I think I'm close to a "Model Felon" and I got no love...