UK "Whole Life" sentences deemed legal.

[uk599905]

I know this is predominately an American site but for those interested in Lifer issues this may be of interest to you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16591164

What is called LWOP in the US is called a Whole Life Tariff here in the UK.
The WLT is used in very extreme circumstance and quite rarely. It's thought that there are about 50 WLT prisoners in the UK. These tend to, but aren't exclusively, the most notorious cases, such as the Yorkshire Ripper who killed 13 women. Dr Harold Shipman convicted of 15 murders but suspected of 200+ murders.
We, confusingly, also have "Life" sentences, which have minimum terms set by the trial judge but have the possibility of parole. When the prisoner is released they are let out "on a life licence" which lasts for the rest of their life.

[JJS811]

UK law is confusing, and to my shame, as a Brit, I know more about US Law than UK law.

UK is right, there are at present 38 people in the UK who have a whole of life tariff, it really is kept for the worst of the worst. To be on life licence is the equivalent of life time parole, to my knowledge there are not many in relative terms on life licence. A life sentence in this country is generally around 12-15 years. The UK also has it's version of felony law/law of parties it is known as joint enterprise, and you can be granted life or WLT if convicted of JE.

Just a point here UK; Harold Shipman committed suicide, so is not a WLT prisoner, he is dead one.

There is an interesting piece in today's press about life sentences here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bars-life.html

Oops - my mistake. Apologies UK, you have the Beeb version of the same press story. That'll teach me to read more carefully.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by JJS811

UK is right, there are at present 38 people in the UK who have a whole of life tariff, it really is kept for the worst of the worst.

Just a point here UK; Harold Shipman committed suicide, so is not a WLT prisoner, he is dead one.

As an interesting side note, if all things are equal, which clearly they're not, the US general population is roughly 5x larger than the UK. (307 million over 60 milllion) If the US had the same kind of sentencing laws for LWOP as here, the LWOP prison population would number around 250.
I'd hazard a bet that there are probably some prisons in California alone that has more than that number of LWOP inmates.

In fact even before posting this I did a quick search and found out that Angola prison in Louisiana has more than 3000 LWOP prisoners....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_im...tes#Statistics

[JJS811]

Angola is a very unusual prison within the US prison system. Not only does it house the highest percentage of lifers of any US prison, it also holds the DR for LA.

The prison has it's own hospice run by the inmates, they look after those who are dying, with a doctor who issues medication. It is the only prison to have a hospice. They also have their own casket making shop, the inmates made a proper carriage for the caskets to ride in, when an inmate is buried on prison grounds (most are). Then they have a beautiful church service within the prison, and the inmates dig the grave and they (and sometimes the Warden) attends the funeral. The \Warden insists that death is the end of that man's sentence, so his service, his casket and his funeral are all the very best Angola can provide.

Originally Posted by uk599905

As an interesting side note, if all things are equal, which clearly they're not, the US general population is roughly 5x larger than the UK. (307 million over 60 milllion) If the US had the same kind of sentencing laws for LWOP as here, the LWOP prison population would number around 250.
I'd hazard a bet that there are probably some prisons in California alone that has more than that number of LWOP inmates.

In fact even before posting this I did a quick search and found out that Angola prison in Louisiana has more than 3000 LWOP prisoners....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_im...tes#Statistics

[ALMill]

OK I have a question for those of you in the UK. I am in love with a man who has a life sentence through the UK (he told me this) but the sentence is being served in another country. Are there specific countries that take in UK lifers because he is from Ireland and he is serving time in Eastern Europe.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by ALMill

OK I have a question for those of you in the UK. I am in love with a man who has a life sentence through the UK (he told me this) but the sentence is being served in another country. Are there specific countries that take in UK lifers because he is from Ireland and he is serving time in Eastern Europe.

Just to check something first, you say he is from Ireland. Is that the Irish Republic, or Northern Ireland? The Irish Republic isn't anything to do with the UK as it is its own sovereign nation with completely different laws, Northern Ireland however is in the UK and (mostly) has the same laws as the rest of the UK.

The Republic may have some kind of mutual sentencing laws with Eastern Europe, especially as the Republic, unlike the UK is more closely integrated with Europe than we are here in the UK.
As far as I know, there isn't a reciprocal arrangement in Europe where "our" prisoners serve time in a foreign country under our sentencing laws for crimes committed in this country.
The Home Office ( the dept in charge of prisons here) does occasionally allow prisoners to exchange into and out of the UK under exceptional circumstances to their home country to serve out the sentence imposed by the sentencing nation. SO... a UK subject could transfer to England... from a European nation and serve out their sentence imposed in the original country... and a European citizen could transfer to their country of origin to serve out their sentence imposed here...

There is only one other instance I can think of where what you say could apply, where a UK court passes a sentence in another country as if it was the UK and the prisoner serves the sentence in the UK.... and I'm pretty sure the guy you know isn't Abdelbaset Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi

[ALMill]

My fella is from Belfast, so it is North Ireland and I know is under British control. He was convicted in a British court originally for one crime but then it was discovered that there were numerous others he had committed (he was not a good boy for a very long time and just wasn't caught). He has admitted to me the basics of what he has done but will not give me details and I won't ask for the details of his crimes because he was a different man then.
i know nothing about where he is other than that it is in eastern Europe (because of time zone differences) and that where he is does allow internet usage for emails instead of allowing snail mail. I know there are many that will question truth because of that but I do know that there are countries that do use the net because I have done research.
I know it has been very very cold and he said he remembers traveling a very long time north. He said they won't tell him where he is and honestly it terrifies him.

And just to say for those who want to judge that the relationship has always been an LDR then do so for what you think doesn't matter to me, I know my heart and I feel his, those are what matter to me.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by ALMill

My fella is from Belfast, so it is North Ireland and I know is under British control. He was convicted in a British court originally for one crime but then it was discovered that there were numerous others he had committed (he was not a good boy for a very long time and just wasn't caught). He has admitted to me the basics of what he has done but will not give me details and I won't ask for the details of his crimes because he was a different man then.
i know nothing about where he is other than that it is in eastern Europe (because of time zone differences) and that where he is does allow internet usage for emails instead of allowing snail mail. I know there are many that will question truth because of that but I do know that there are countries that do use the net because I have done research.
I know it has been very very cold and he said he remembers traveling a very long time north. He said they won't tell him where he is and honestly it terrifies him.

And just to say for those who want to judge that the relationship has always been an LDR then do so for what you think doesn't matter to me, I know my heart and I feel his, those are what matter to me.

OK then, if he's a British subject and was convicted in a British court, it could be that at the end of his sentence here he was then extradited to a country we have an extradition treaty with to stand trial in that country, where he was then convicted and sentenced. I don't know, without looking it up, which eastern European countries we'd be likely to have a treaty with. [ looked it up, you'll find the list here: http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/p...latextradition ]
There is of course the chance that as he's from Belfast the charges were terrorism related. It might make sense of him being in eastern Europe too in that a lot of the weapons and explosives came from that part of the world after the Iron Curtain fell.

However there is something I am kinda confused about. You say he ONLY has email access? I initially read this as he only had snail mail... but I find it very difficult to believe that any European country, especially an eastern European country would only have access to email and forbid letters. On top of that, if he was extradited from the UK, he'd have been told which nation was extraditing him, he'd have known the airport he landed at as most have signs in English, he'd have seen road-signs or other clues, he'd have spoken to his legal counsel in English presuming he didn't speak the language and could have asked where he was, he would have at least had a clue from the language spoken, whether he was in Bulgaria or Poland or somewhere else... and if he has committed the crimes, as he appears to have admitted to you, then he'd know which countries he committed crimes in and could take a reasonable guess as to where he was.. having been in that country to commit the crimes!
Can I say, and I mean this with the very best of intentions... be wary. Something doesn't sit right with this.

Does anyone else find this highly unusual?

And honestly I'm not judging, I'm trying to help.

[MsStamp]

The only person I know who has a WLT is Rose West, I didn't know there were 38 others. Oh, and I think Rose West actually refused to attend her parole hearing...but I read that on wiki so I'm not sure how accurate that is.