Inherit pessimism in the GLBT forums

[Tjames85]

I was just reading about the end of a very caring if not misguided gay man on prison talk and noticed yet another person pretty much making the case that we should never give anything to someone in prison with any expectations. While this sounds nice and compassionate on paper it would never fly in the husbands and boyfriends section and most in the MWI section would dismiss this idea. I think a few in the when its all over section tried to live by this motto and were left with broken hearts.

Yes you should never have expectations of someone you just met and don't know. To not have expectations of a partner is just silly. I feel like very few gay and bi men on prison talk ever really have any faith in their men. I haven't posted here in a while because I feel out of place. My man has issues but overall he is a great guy. I trust him. I am faithful, and I have expectations of him. I am not trying to knock anyone relationship. would have no problem if it weren't for the fact that every time I came here for support I was pretty much told my relationship probably wouldn't work and that I should give up. I feel like the GLBT forum is the least optimistic forum on the whole site.

[Ken]

Interesting comments and interesting perspective.... Thank you for stating this.

There are in fact more negative situations that have been shared in this forum than there have been positive. Most guys come here looking for reasons to be negative and they actually ask for the negative comments - if you look at their posts.... Most - not all.

I think that in the 'spirit' of trying to help, many have been burned before and when someone comes with a negative situation they are hit back with a negative answer.

This is not an excuse. This is just my view after 10 years on PTO.

My personal situation was one that no one could question until finally after 6 years I found that most everything that I had been told was a lie. I had every expectation and every reason to believe. I thought that I had the one that was real.

I am here to Moderate not to give bad news. I do tend to personally give you the negative side of an answer but my thought is that if you live through that and move forward then you are really ready for the reality.

There are just so many situations that after 10 years I see as pure scam and I have not said a word... and the unfortuante situation is that there are many gay guys that are so easily taken by this bad boy rhetoric that sometimes you just can't be negative enough.

In the end - I am sorry that you feel that this forum is the most negative on the site.

One of the biggest problems is that it is also one of the most transient on the site. There are few if any members in this forum that have been here for very long. They come and they share their stuff and then they go. Very few stick around. So what you see is a revolving door of drama that always seems the same with different names attached.

How about you work with us to make this forum better?

[eloriel]

Originally Posted by Tjames85

I was just reading about the end of a very caring if not misguided gay man on prison talk and noticed yet another person pretty much making the case that we should never give anything to someone in prison with any expectations. While this sounds nice and compassionate on paper it would never fly in the husbands and boyfriends section and most in the MWI section would dismiss this idea. I think a few in the when its all over section tried to live by this motto and were left with broken hearts.

Yes you should never have expectations of someone you just met and don't know. To not have expectations of a partner is just silly. I feel like very few gay and bi men on prison talk ever really have any faith in their men. I haven't posted here in a while because I feel out of place. My man has issues but overall he is a great guy. I trust him. I am faithful, and I have expectations of him. I am not trying to knock anyone relationship. would have no problem if it weren't for the fact that every time I came here for support I was pretty much told my relationship probably wouldn't work and that I should give up. I feel like the GLBT forum is the least optimistic forum on the whole site.

I think this part of the forum is realistically optimistic. Having read through the posts and also those from the MWI section, I feel as if I am having an accurate picture of the situtation with men in prison. I have a "relationship" with a gay man in prison and so far I still believe he is not scamming me. But if I were not to believe him, why should I write to him in the first place and waste my time? In the end you will have your own guts telling you what to do. The forum is here to share experiences, doubts and also those happy moments. I also had a bad experience with an "allegedly" gay man....so that didnt keep me from trying again.

Personally I prefer a realistic approach rather than a "Happily Ever After" picture, because it will not deter me or lower my spirits if someone here writes about his bad experiences and is giving warnings. When it comes to feelings and relationship I definetly want to know the "real" stuff and not get lost in the pink cloud of fizzly butterflies and overwhelming violins. Never be cynical about love, but do not distress yourself with imaginings either.

[Tjames85]

Thank you for your reply, Ken. I guess part of what upsets me is that someone came to this forum looking for help and ended up closing there account before I could offer support. I feel like had I not given up on this forum I would have noticed there post and could have offered support. I think there are more positive threads here than you are giving credit to. It just seems like all of the positive threads get few or no replies and fall down the list while negative or dramatic threads will have 3 pages of replies. I understand that drama gets peoples attention. I understand about the problem of scams in the, "gay" prison community. I no longer write pen pals because I don't feel like wading through all of the scammers calling me beautiful without ever having seen a picture of me. I feel like we can't be that different from the rest of the community as a whole. Most of us are MWI and I noticed that MWIs and RWIs seem to be happier with their relationships since we have gained something as opposed to losing something. I don't see that same happiness here. I will do my part to maybe make a few threads about how absolutely in love I am with my man even though the prison system scares me to no end. I will also try to comment on some of the more positive threads when they come along.

[Tjames85]

Originally Posted by eloriel

I think this part of the forum is realistically optimistic. Having read through the posts and also those from the MWI section, I feel as if I am having an accurate picture of the situtation with men in prison. I have a "relationship" with a gay man in prison and so far I still believe he is not scamming me. But if I were not to believe him, why should I write to him in the first place and waste my time? In the end you will have your own guts telling you what to do. The forum is here to share experiences, doubts and also those happy moments. I also had a bad experience with an "allegedly" gay man....so that didnt keep me from trying again.

Personally I prefer a realistic approach rather than a "Happily Ever After" picture, because it will not deter me or lower my spirits if someone here writes about his bad experiences and is giving warnings. When it comes to feelings and relationship I definetly want to know the "real" stuff and not get lost in the pink cloud of fizzly butterflies and overwhelming violins. Never be cynical about love, but do not distress yourself with imaginings either.

Thank you for your reply. I think good advice is about balance. I have been a member for two or three years. I have seen plenty of threads all over the site of people who were leaving good relationships based on pettiness. I have seen plenty of people used and hurt. Its the lack of balance in this forum that putts me off. Pure negativity can and will destroy good relationships. Being surrounded by negativity can make a well rounded person negative. Negativity never bodes well for a relationship. Being gay in a prison relationship comes with many obstacles that can be overcome for some of us. If all a person gets is negativity then they may not see the more creative solutions to there problems. I am not looking for butterflies. I don't see the value in pure negativity either.

[eloriel]

Originally Posted by Tjames85

Thank you for your reply. I think good advice is about balance. I have been a member for two or three years. I have seen plenty of threads all over the site of people who were leaving good relationships based on pettiness. I have seen plenty of people used and hurt. Its the lack of balance in this forum that putts me off. Pure negativity can and will destroy good relationships. Being surrounded by negativity can make a well rounded person negative. Negativity never bodes well for a relationship. Being gay in a prison relationship comes with many obstacles that can be overcome for some of us. If all a person gets is negativity then they may not see the more creative solutions to there problems. I am not looking for butterflies. I don't see the value in pure negativity either.

Point taken. However, I dont agree that "external" negativity will destroy a solid relationsship. Its all about having enough self-esteem and stand your own grounds. If I truly believe in my relationship I couldnt care less what others tell me about it. Now thats a perception that is based on an individual level. That said, I simply disagree that this forum is per se negative as you perceive it. Yes the glass can be seen as half empty....depending on the perspective. Now about creativity, thats a good point, but please remain realistic. The boundaries in a prison relationship are narrow and the path is steep. If you ask the right question you will most likely get a "constructive" answer. But to me just saying "everything will be allright in the end and if its not allright its not the end" or "it will all work out" are just lavishly spoken words with no real positiv spin potential.

Ask yourself why you are getting off balance that quickly just by this forum allegedly being "negativ". I mean even if it were as you perceive it, its still not a reason to loose your balance in life after all, right? If you see obstacles then word them and see what comes back, challenge those "shallow" negative answers.....be steadfast about getting the "real" answer to your question.

Take me as an example. I am pretty new here and I am so grateful that this forum exists! I mean I read about the scams the deception and so on. It didnt get me shunned away, right? Actually, it did quiet the opposite! I dont feel alone with this MWI thing and can share experiences, ask for guidance and advice and so far I have been given substantial amounts of support and advice. I am very grateful for that! Dont forget that many advices are given out by PM also. Listen I have confronted my MWI with all these scams and believe me I am a pain in the ass if questions are not answered...maybe because I'm Swiss? Even if the so called "negativity" stares at me like this I rise and challenge its assertion! You know what happend? My MWI just loves me exactly for that, because he somehow senses that I am serious and not just some fly bye dude.

[Ricardo Coyote]

I just want to add my 2 cents here. I am in a relationship with someone I met while he was incarcerated. We've been together now for 2-1/2 years and it's great. It's been hard at times but relationships on the outside are hard at times. I love my husband. I trust him. I have no doubts about him. I look forward to when he gets out in about a year and I'm hoping for a great life together. The negativity that you talk about kind of goes with the territory. Prison is a very negative place. Our lives as gay people in a heterosexual society comes with a huge amount of negativity. It's just something we need to constantly be overcoming. I'm sure it does spill over into the forum. By definition this is a place where people share their problems. But the forum helped me get through the adjustment of when my husband arrived at his prison and all of the things that take getting used to. Ken and some others gave me great advice that helped me through. My husband and I are doing really well now and, like I said, I trust him implicitly.

[Tjames85]

Originally Posted by eloriel

Point taken. However, I dont agree that "external" negativity will destroy a solid relationsship. Its all about having enough self-esteem and stand your own grounds. If I truly believe in my relationship I couldnt care less what others tell me about it. Now thats a perception that is based on an individual level. That said, I simply disagree that this forum is per se negative as you perceive it. Yes the glass can be seen as half empty....depending on the perspective. Now about creativity, thats a good point, but please remain realistic. The boundaries in a prison relationship are narrow and the path is steep. If you ask the right question you will most likely get a "constructive" answer. But to me just saying "everything will be allright in the end and if its not allright its not the end" or "it will all work out" are just lavishly spoken words with no real positiv spin potential.

Ask yourself why you are getting off balance that quickly just by this forum allegedly being "negativ". I mean even if it were as you perceive it, its still not a reason to loose your balance in life after all, right? If you see obstacles then word them and see what comes back, challenge those "shallow" negative answers.....be steadfast about getting the "real" answer to your question.

Take me as an example. I am pretty new here and I am so grateful that this forum exists! I mean I read about the scams the deception and so on. It didnt get me shunned away, right? Actually, it did quiet the opposite! I dont feel alone with this MWI thing and can share experiences, ask for guidance and advice and so far I have been given substantial amounts of support and advice. I am very grateful for that! Dont forget that many advices are given out by PM also. Listen I have confronted my MWI with all these scams and believe me I am a pain in the ass if questions are not answered...maybe because I'm Swiss? Even if the so called "negativity" stares at me like this I rise and challenge its assertion! You know what happend? My MWI just loves me exactly for that, because he somehow senses that I am serious and not just some fly bye dude.

Well I am not going to get into a back and fourth match with you since you have already decided that I want unrealistically happy replies and that negativity throws me out of balance. Lack of balance and lack of nuance turn me off because both are signs of bad advice. I see this all over prison talk. I just don't see the balanced and nuanced replies that balance out the more simplistic or overly negative ones here.

If you have to fight to get good advice in your time of need then that says that on some level the system is broken. That doesn't mean the system has no value. It simply means the system can be better. I believe the ability to criticize a beloved system is a form of support for that system. To simply accept that systems flaws and not want to improve because that could be seen as a attack on the system or being ungrateful towards the system is to disrespects the systems ability to change and expand in my opinion.

My life was saved by negativity on Prison talk. I stumbled across the archives before i was in a prison relationship because I was in a relationship with a drug addict but had no experience with that. It took me over a year to accept that he was a drug addict because he didn't conform to my media fed view of what a crack addict was. Long story short I found out his issues were typical of a drug addict and a lot of the excuses he was giving me were false based on negativity i read in the when its over and drug abuse section of prison talk. Negativity has its place. However positivity and creativity do as well. You are right. I will fight for what I think is right. I will fight for a more constructive balance of negativity, positivity and creativity on prison talk. Being realistic isn't simply about being negative. Its about understanding that different problems call for different responses and accepting that you may not always have the answer.

[Tjames85]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Coyote

I just want to add my 2 cents here. I am in a relationship with someone I met while he was incarcerated. We've been together now for 2-1/2 years and it's great. It's been hard at times but relationships on the outside are hard at times. I love my husband. I trust him. I have no doubts about him. I look forward to when he gets out in about a year and I'm hoping for a great life together. The negativity that you talk about kind of goes with the territory. Prison is a very negative place. Our lives as gay people in a heterosexual society comes with a huge amount of negativity. It's just something we need to constantly be overcoming. I'm sure it does spill over into the forum. By definition this is a place where people share their problems. But the forum helped me get through the adjustment of when my husband arrived at his prison and all of the things that take getting used to. Ken and some others gave me great advice that helped me through. My husband and I are doing really well now and, like I said, I trust him implicitly.

I have thought about the fact that it might be a gay thing. Most of us have never had gay relationship role models. Many of us have to deal with coming out of the closet at a time where straight people are figuring themselves out in the relationship world. On some level I think as gay people on a whole we have a lot of catching up to do in the relationship world. It makes me happy when I see out teenagers who see thier gayness or bisexuality as just another part of themselves because it gives me hope that the will have less complicated love lives.

Thank you for understanding. I simply want to point out the negativity so that we can try to over come it as we are constantly doing in the gay community. Maybe as I am getting closer to 30 I am starting to see that the world keeps repeating itself. I am also seeing that small pockets of growth and change can inspire nearby pockets. Maybe its not about changing the world but changing a few lives. Perfection is starting to seem unattainable to me but better is like right in front of me.

[eloriel]

Originally Posted by Tjames85

I have thought about the fact that it might be a gay thing. Most of us have never had gay relationship role models. Many of us have to deal with coming out of the closet at a time where straight people are figuring themselves out in the relationship world. On some level I think as gay people on a whole we have a lot of catching up to do in the relationship world. It makes me happy when I see out teenagers who see thier gayness or bisexuality as just another part of themselves because it gives me hope that the will have less complicated love lives.

Thank you for understanding. I simply want to point out the negativity so that we can try to over come it as we are constantly doing in the gay community. Maybe as I am getting closer to 30 I am starting to see that the world keeps repeating itself. I am also seeing that small pockets of growth and change can inspire nearby pockets. Maybe its not about changing the world but changing a few lives. Perfection is starting to seem unattainable to me but better is like right in front of me.

Without adding more strings of drama, I think that your perception of gay human beings in general might be confined to the very country you live in...that being the United States or am I mistaken? I have experienced and witnessed many gay couples which DID NOT have any issues or "catching" up to do for their love to thrive and their relationship to grow in comparison to straight couples. Therefore, I urge anyone who is gay not to generalize a whole community based on personal experiences, because I truly had other experiences myself and I simply despise stereotypes of all kind. The concept of love is universal as the light and it comes in many colors. So when it comes to relationships....each of those are unique and have a right to be cherished, regardless of one's sexuality......We should not start to compare relationships on the basis of sexuality...never.

[Ken]

All of the things said here are true. All the feelings that each of you are feeling are real.

I was "the only gay in the village" (hope someone will know what I mean by that) way back when... or the only one 'out' and it was me that convinced David (owner of Prison Talk) to open the GLBT Forum.

With that being said - no worries that any negativity here will not cause any challenges as long as we are being constructive as we are now. Yes - the GLBT Forum is my 'baby' and it is the only reason that I still come back to PTO now. Well, just about the only reason.

I will go back to where I was and why I came here. I was falling in love with someone in prison and I had no one to talk to. My friends did not understand and they really did not want to talk about it. I had no one and I did not understand what was happening.

I came to PTO and posted an introduction in the Introduction Forum - called myself out and introduced myself as Gay and loving a man in prison. David (formerly FedX) came to me immediately and welcomed me to the community. David and others helped me overcome my fear and my challenges. Many of the challenges that I faced had never been faced before and the answers were not known on PTO. Then the GLBT forum was born.

The GLBT Forum has a very transient membership and I think that it is because there are few - very few guys (and women) that have relationships that are not MWI relationships. The guys that come on are excited with this novel new relationship and then the hardships of the relationship become more apparent. Not to say that we (the gay community) are not able to deal with the challenges, but I think as a Gay man it is alright for me to say that sometimes we get caught in the whole bad boy prison thing and we get stuck...

The forum is the forum. We have fought long and hard at PTO to make sure that we deliver the 'negative' with the positive. We cannot always just give positive.

I know that this is not the answer to the forum challenge, but if more stayed around and if more answered the posts that were there then we would have a better forum.

[Ken]

I think that one of the things that we all have to remember is that Prison Talk is a member driven discussion community. Members, not volunteer staff are the main stay of what is written on PTO. Yes staff contribute and some more than others but still the vast majority of the content is from members. Prison Talk has had to be extremely careful not to "censor" content where negativity is displayed unless the negativity is a personal attack to the individual. PTO therefore is accepting what members are saying and we are not about to change or mandate that they be more positive.

Please don't take offense to my next comment, but PTO is the largest prison online community for a reason. We are loved and appreciated for the level of posting guidelines that we have and for the lack of censorship of someone's opinion.

We all have to also remember that this is "member experience" that's is being shared. PTO does not verify anything said by a member so the validity of anything said is always in question in my opinion. This is an open member community that has a high level of experience in the subject matter but it is all opinion and not verified opinion.

When you suggest that the system is broken, I question how you suggest to fix it? Is PTO broken? I personally don't think so.

I think that what I have to say about the GLBT forum is that we (gay) are a minority to start in the outside world and we are an even bigger minority in the prison world. PTO is going to attract more gay people that have challenges and questions than we will those that are happy and comfortable in their prison relationship. With that said you are seeing a very small group of gay men and women posting here and it is not a true reflection of athe whole population of Gay prison relationships.

Further, accept it or not, gay men are a target of prisoners for scams. This is a fact. So, again you are likely going to have more 'drama' for this reason too.

You also mentioned that at 30 you don't have relationship mentors or role models? I know that I will offend with my next comment but I live in Canada and I have friends in other areas is the world outside of the USA and our lives as gay people are rich and fulfilling and very different than living in the USA as a gay person. The US is very much behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to GLBT social policy and general population acceptance. Very much behind. I am proud to live and work in a country where I can be out to my workplace and hold my boyfriends hand on the street if I want. In Canada and many other places in the world we don't have to hide or worry... I will say this however, I have never been so concerned and or scared for my well being than when I was visiting my friend in prison in the USA. Just the looks that I would get in the prison towns we concerning. I am not a flaming queen by any means but I am obviously different enough to get looks... I have never experienced this kind of thing in Canada.

Ok. Enough for now and lets continue the discussion because there is resolution somewhere to challenges of this forum and we can work them out I am sure.

[Ricardo Coyote]

Ken, what you said does not offend but I might add that the USA is a large and diverse country. I live in California (thank God!) and I don't think it is quite as bad for lgbt people as some other parts of the country. Life is always difficult for lgbt people because we are a minority living in societies where heterosexuality is considered the norm. Also I would say that under the very best of circumstances prison is never easy. It is difficult to say the least and so when we come onto PTO we are usually here to talk about difficulties we encounter as lgbt people in the vile environment that prison usually is. At the moment I find myself separated from the man I love by hundreds of miles. His prison is on lockdown so he can't call me nor can we have visits. Fortunately the mail is rather fast so our daily letters to each other arrive somewhat quickly. I struggle to keep a positive outlook every day but I force myself to do it for him. Thanks for your input and thanks to the other people who have contributed.

[Tjames85]

Ken I take not offense. I have come to accept that many people around the world have negatives views of the united states for various reasons. Its your right to have an opinion. I think gay people who aren't from America confuse the hardships of coming out and the hardships that being part of a young culture bring with fear of violence. There are few gay role models for someone my age because there were few openly gay men and women before my time. I have lived in Ft Lauderdale Florida and Dallas Texas and I have been to several other cities in the USA and I am not afraid to hold my boyfriends hands. Most of the problems with being openly gay in America is fear of people judging you, not fear of violence.

I have decided that I will simply respond to positive threads and refrain from getting stuck in the back and fourth that occur in the negative ones. You are right that prison is a hard place and men outside of prison are a targeted group for scammers. You are also right that people seem to come and dump there fears and anxiety in this board and then disappear. I don't know how to fix that since I have no desire to change others. I simply wanted to bring something to light that i notice and I feel i have done my part.

[Ken]

Tjames,

We ALWAYS need more positive. I thrive on positive and I don't tend to keep negative in my life at all. If you are a negative person and I am introduced to you then you don't get very far into my life because I just don't enjoy the negative side of things. This being said some will say that some of my posts are negative. Well, we cannot have positive and happiness without facing some negative from time to time and negative exists no matter what your attitude is in life. Negative is also sometimes unfortunately reality.

I encourage you to be one of the forum members that starts and contributes to the positive side of this forum. Please bring more of that forward. What I miss that we used to have were stories about visitation and happy stories about events and the growth of the relationship between two people. Someone has to cast the first stone and although that saying is generally associated with negative, I am going to suggest that you cast the first positive stone.

We ALL can contribute to the positive where it is realistic and accept the negative where it is necessary.

For me if I post a question I am doing so becasue I want opinion before I make my decision. I then weigh all the response positive and negative and make my decision how to proceed. For me without the negative side the decision does not come from a balanced examination of all the facts and possible outcomes. I personally want the negative to be able to see all sides of the equation.

I get where you are coming from and I appreciate everything that you have said here and respect where you are coming from in opinion. Lets hope that we can all together make PTO and the GLBT forum better.

[t'slovingwife]

I stopped by to check on everyone. I am in a heterosexual marriage, but some of the same things apply. I think you see more of the negative stuff in when the relationship is over. I think there are so many more difficulties in being in a gay relationship with a convict. First and foremost some people aren't "out" in the prison setting. They may perpetrate to say that they are playing someone for $ when they really do care, but it is just a tough situation to handle. I think anyone in a relationship with an inmate has to be cautious because you don't truly know the person you are dealing with. I commend those who look for and find love in the toughest of places- that is a blessing. There are risks in any relationship- gay, straight, prison, free world. We all take a risk when we open our feelings up to someone else. Just wanted to add my 2 cents..have an amazing weekend!

[Tried&True]

An interesting thread, to say the least. I understand what TJames' is trying to say (think), and find it has merit. I got into writng inmates without expectations. I just thought it would be nice to be able to show some compassion and offer friendship and encouragement to someone who I hoped was a good and decent person; who just made a very dumb mistake. I read up, especially here on PTO and was aware of the "risks". Since I wasn't looking for anything, it didn't really 'hurt' me when the very first guy turned out to be a scammer.
Undaunted, I wrote a second and much to my surprise and delight, I found the man I know is my soulmate. I love him with all my heart. He is my first thought in the morning and my last thought at night. When we met, he was in about the toughest place there is in the federal system, but is beating the odds. His security level has been downgraded and he is in a much nicer and safer place now. I admire his strentgh and positive attitude; knowing that he is mine helps me through the days. I am so proud of him!
As far as expectations go, we expect of each other what anyone would expect of someone who professes to love them; openness, honestly, trust, and faith and hope for the future. We have been together for over a year and a half. He has a year or so left before he gets out and comes to his new home with me.
Is there a chance this could all blow up in my face?..I suppose it could, but I believe in him and share his hopes for our future.

Thanks for letting me share.

[countryzgirl]

Originally Posted by Tjames85

I was just reading about the end of a very caring if not misguided gay man on prison talk and noticed yet another person pretty much making the case that we should never give anything to someone in prison with any expectations. While this sounds nice and compassionate on paper it would never fly in the husbands and boyfriends section and most in the MWI section would dismiss this idea. I think a few in the when its all over section tried to live by this motto and were left with broken hearts.

Yes you should never have expectations of someone you just met and don't know. To not have expectations of a partner is just silly. I feel like very few gay and bi men on prison talk ever really have any faith in their men. I haven't posted here in a while because I feel out of place. My man has issues but overall he is a great guy. I trust him. I am faithful, and I have expectations of him. I am not trying to knock anyone relationship. would have no problem if it weren't for the fact that every time I came here for support I was pretty much told my relationship probably wouldn't work and that I should give up. I feel like the GLBT forum is the least optimistic forum on the whole site.

It's hardly all butterflies and unicorns over in Husbands and BF's.
You say that , "...making the case that we should never give anything to someone in prison with any expectations. While this sounds nice and compassionate on paper it would never fly in the husbands and boyfriends section." I gotta tell you - that is a VERY common theme in H/B. I see it over and over again, albeit stated differently than your phrasing here. Perhaps it is more common in this forum - but I think it's not pessimism but rather sound advice for anyone getting involved with an inmate. Just my two cents...

[Ken]

We spend our time harping on how we can or can not trust our MWI, well, it is not always all that different out on the streets.

Since I decided a few years ago now to just be friends with my MWI, I have been lied to in so many ways out on the streets that I cannot count any more. Men that are so busy with their smart phones and Grindr apps and men that have profiles on multiple dating and sex sites... it seems to me that this is a sign of the times and cheating and dishonesty is a way of the future more and more.

Here is my negative rant for today... I am still looking for honesty because I cannot and refuse to believe that if I want it there is not someone else that wants the same thing.

I hate being so untrusting but the last boyfriend totally blew trust out of the water for me - again.

MWI or met on the street - eyes wide open boys and girls!

[Ricardo Coyote]

I know where you are coming from, Ken, and I appreciate the advice. It's just that I refuse to give in to the damnable cynicism that so frequently happens especially in the lgbtq community. I just don't want to live that way. I really want to be a wide-eyed innocent. Just call me Bambi. I've been very fortunate. My mwi husband is the greatest. I love him to death. I trust him. He's never given me reason to do otherwise. I also realize our's may be the exception. I guess time will tell, won't it?

[slycanyon1194]

Originally Posted by Ken

Interesting comments and interesting perspective.... Thank you for stating this.

There are in fact more negative situations that have been shared in this forum than there have been positive. Most guys come here looking for reasons to be negative and they actually ask for the negative comments - if you look at their posts.... Most - not all.

I think that in the 'spirit' of trying to help, many have been burned before and when someone comes with a negative situation they are hit back with a negative answer.

This is not an excuse. This is just my view after 10 years on PTO.

My personal situation was one that no one could question until finally after 6 years I found that most everything that I had been told was a lie. I had every expectation and every reason to believe. I thought that I had the one that was real.

I am here to Moderate not to give bad news. I do tend to personally give you the negative side of an answer but my thought is that if you live through that and move forward then you are really ready for the reality.

There are just so many situations that after 10 years I see as pure scam and I have not said a word... and the unfortuante situation is that there are many gay guys that are so easily taken by this bad boy rhetoric that sometimes you just can't be negative enough.

In the end - I am sorry that you feel that this forum is the most negative on the site.

One of the biggest problems is that it is also one of the most transient on the site. There are few if any members in this forum that have been here for very long. They come and they share their stuff and then they go. Very few stick around. So what you see is a revolving door of drama that always seems the same with different names attached.

How about you work with us to make this forum better?

If you can believe it I am still in a battle with my MWI. The battle is that I don't take no crap from him and I am not afraid of him.He has yet to answer all my questions yet somehow tells me that he refuses to even see us not being together.I am like dude grow some balls.My support has dropped from 150$ a month to 50$ NO problem.He has a certain time with me that he has to call.None of this hit and miss before.

I gave him a certain time frame to come clean with all his red flags.He still insist that if he is outed it would be dangerous for him.I do write him as a woman.This"bad boy"image don't fly with me.He said I am the first person that has ever stood toe to toe with him and at times made him drop his jaw the way I "squash" his attitude with me.Like take your prison slang and hit the road jack.We do have a unique relationship.

I turn the tide on him and tell him I am not a toy and he will respect me.Right now I have him in limbo so to speak telling him,if you are serious about us get out (he almost is) parole to your Moms,I will still help with minimal support,clothes things he needs.Now here is the kicker.When you are off paper then knock on my door.So to sum this up there are to many guys that I see play games with the inmate also.And they are so star struck that they have someone that will pay attention to them.

Like I told him and my advise would be to anyone in a MWIGR the key word is I AM NOT DESPERATE.Let that be known up front.He was like speechless when I told him that.Still I am aware of the consequences that there is still a possibility that he could be false!If my questions are not answered in time or for the time for him to get out,sorry charlie it is your loss.Not mine.Take charge people.You are writing an inmate.It is funny sometimes on the phone I start off and say"well i guess you are still an inmate today"He says, "well i guess you are a *****.We laugh.

The best way to judge this is instinct and gut.If you read my post from way back I was pretty intimidated.I was overwhelmed.I came to the conclusion if it does not feel right then it probably isn't. I gave ultimatums and deal breakers.You have to.If they don't understand then they are for NOT! move on! But give it time.In the gay and str8 forums on this site there is no difference in the MWI concept of being played and that it is not real.Both run high risk.Love yourself first and make sure this is what you want.There are some stories where guys are left at the gate wondering what happened to find out they were played.That to me is sad.