Should Convicted Killers Have a Life of Leisure

[iLYD.R.E]

That was the name of the segment on 6/20/2012 ABC News
watching this just made me feel so bad because I know how worse its going to become after people who don't understand are going to take it that guy should'nt of wrote that letter in the first place sheesh whats next? they already took away extended family visits now they want them to get rid of playing cards and dominios and eat meat patties with no flavor? ew.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/convicted-k...ry?id=16426138

[krc1abc1]

I am thoroughly disgusted with this attitude. And this is why prison reform in this country is an uphill battle. There is this grass roots idea of an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth mentality out there. Those who advocate what these people are suggesting should view it from both sides of the fence to have an adequate opinion of what is going on. I can sy I have been on both sides of the fence. My grandmother was brutally murdered in her own home when she was 80 years old. The individual who committed this crime has never been arrested so I do know it from the victims stand point. My husband, who I met in prison is a California lifer who is on a 7 to life and down 34 years. In his case he was involved in a robbery that led to a shootout. Should he have been doing what he was doing when this crime occurred, no. Does he regret his actions, yes. Can he change the events of that night, no. Anyone could have been killed on the night in question. Rehabilitation needs to be the answer. Throwing the key away solves nothing. Within corrections basic human needs are not met, inmates cannot foster relationships that meet their psychological needs and in many instances of long term incarceration inmates lose all contact with friends and family. I guarantee that for each of our LO who we support there is an inmate sitting in his or her cell alone without support and they are virtually alone. If you take away everything what is the inmate to do? We provide little to no programing. Most inmates would like programing, they would prefer that to days at a time with nothing to do. The goal should not be to punish but should be to develop means to make people productive members of society.

There is much corruption with in the corrections system. I have also seen this having worked as an employee of the Ca depatartment of corrections. Prison becomes a place where only those who are the most mentally equipped survive. Did anyone ever once question the mental state of the death row inmate who was bragging about watching tv?I would bet not. This persons statements were probably taken at face value.

Those of us who have LO who are incarcerated know the realities. Once the state or the federal government incarcerates an individual they take on the responsibility of that person. That person must be fed, provided with shelter, given medical care, provided with clothing, and all other basic human needs. I all to often hear complaints about inmates receiving medical care. It is not the inmates fault that as a nation we do not provide medical care to all of our citizens. That is yet another societal problem that can't be solved because there are people in this country who believe that some people deserve such care more than others. I do apologize I am on the soap box here, but when does it end and how do we open the eyes of those who have these ideas? The criminal justice system needs reform and over haul there is no doubt about it, and all of us with loved ones who are incarcerated need to demand change, if we don't nobody will and those who advocate torture as a means to punish crime will win and our loved ones will pay the price. Enough said...

[Nickel Timer]

I agree with everything you said.

You have to keep in mind, too, how many innocent people on Death Row have been exonerated over the years. In many states, Death Row means solitary confinement, 23-hour lock-down with only an hour for outside recreation and shower. It really is cruel and unusual punishment to deprive condemned prisoners of what little contact with the outside world they have, in the form of daily news shows and what not.

To be honest, I'm not sure T.V. privileges is really that much of a benefit either. When I was locked up for 5 years, the T.V. just reminded me how much stuff I was missing out on being locked up, so I ended up not watching it as much, just because it so often depressed me. To me it was more of a tool that gave me hope of what to aspire towards, to get my act together so that I never come back to that dreary place. Not once did it cross my mind how "nice and cozy" it was watching that small little T.V. all hunched up in my bunk -- give me my living room couch or comfy home recliner any day of the week.

As the ACLU rightly puts its: convicts are sent to prison AS punishment, not FOR punishment. Taking away a person's freedom is a hell of a punishment as is. Fretting over what little recreation prisoners get while locked up is just being petty. I'd like to see any of those congress-critters do 30 days inside, or even a 2-day weekend. Bet they wouldn't be so quick to vote to cut privileges.

[makinglemonade]

What I don't understand is how long a punishment should last? I just don't think that humans were designed to live in an eternal state of punishment. We are always growing and changing. I understand eternal consequenses. I think it is wrong for people to supress the opportunity for another person to grow, mature, learn from their mistakes, become a better person, and have hope.


It is so easy for people who do not have loved ones in prison to be judges. But the line between freedom and prison can be thin. We have all made mistakes. Some people have just made mistakes that are far more crazy and hurtful to others than the norm. It can be so hard to determine and separate out the prisoners who really want to change versus those who really don't care. It is sad that those who really change for the better have to continue to suffer with the rest of them. What can a person do to truly redeem themselves in the eyes of others if they never get that chance? When do they ever stop being dung under the feet of other imperfect human beings?


As for card games, jogging,sunbathing, a tasty meal, playing basketball or baseball....Who cares!? Those things will never replace the fact that those prisoners are missing out of the most priceless gifts of being able to raise their children or be with their spouses and people who truly love them, or experience other joys and freedoms that come with living in a naturally free enviornment.

[krc1abc1]

Not to mention the idea that there is a fine line between those who are doing time and those who are not. There are many people who have committed crimes that are never caught. As well the corruption that goes on inside the prisons. Who do these groups think bring in contraband, cell phones, drugs etc. They like to blame it on people visiting inmates which yes that does happen but by and large it is people, mostly CO who bring the stuff in. I saw it all the time. Everybody on the inside knows they will sell the inmate a cell phone for a high price and when they get mad at the inmate surpass the phone is discovered. Now people also ask how does this stuff get in with all the security. Well duh the good ole boys are running the security so they simply don't pay that much attention to what is going inside the prison hidden inside a lunch bag. Only those who fall out of the good ole boys system are caught. Sad but true and just another example of the fine line between those who are serving time and those who hold the key. One more thought in my rant and then I will stop. CO must pass a psychological test to become employed in the department. The public would think that this would be done to find those candidates best qualified to mentally handle a difficult job. It is my feeling that this testing also identifies individuals who are most likely able to ignore the many humanitarian injustices that go on, just a thought.

[krc1abc1]

I think that the pattern of mistakes has to be looked at. Are we throwing the key away on someone who made one mistake whether it be big or small. Has the person given the tools to make changes in their lives. There are some people who are serving time that are severely psychologically damaged and the public should be protected from them. But we shouldn't determine that all people fall into that classification. Currently we do not parole the lifer population if they have write ups in their file. Now some write ups are for dangerous behavior and shouldn't be over looked but frequently write ups are for simple rules violations (in the general society similar to a traffic ticket). How many parole board members have had traffic tickets? What if we locked them up for life? People are not perfect and to think that those doing time can be 100 percent perfect in an environment where survival is not based on perfection is idiotic and unreasonable. And this mind set of once a criminal always a criminal and an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is exactly why the prison system is the mess that it is and overflowing.

[SusanWayward]

So funny that even when I was 12 years old, I realized that anyone who thought prison was such a "cushy" place where the inmates have more "rights" than free people do - such a person could just offer to trade places!

Or, at any time get themselves locked up if they think it's so grand.

As I said in another thread yesterday, Americans do not accept the reality that when you treat a person like a monster, you become a monster yourself.

Society is supposed to be "better than" and more highly evolved than a psychopathic killer - WE are supposed to be taking the high road, not coming down to their level seeking nothing but retribution and torture for those who wronged us.

Honestly, there is a person who has been and continues to be a threat to a loved one of mine. I would like to see this person locked up long term, but my god I don't wish him harm or torture. In fact, for me, the thing that would satisfy me the most would be to see this young guy truly and sincerely turn his life around! And I believe I would feel that way even if the WORST would happen to my family.

Torturing the guy in prison for the rest of his life would not bring my loved one back to life. Therefore, there would be no point to it.

[iLYD.R.E]

I definitely agree with everyone up top ^ theres just no solving this with the eye for eye concept.
Rehabilitation is a must more programs are needed even if they are on Death Row or have Life plan and simple those may very well be the people that need the most rehabilitation.

[OneOfMany]

Let me see if I have this right:

One narcissistic inmate writes a letter bragging about his grandeur illusion and then from this letter alone: (quoting from the article)

"State legislatures are also starting to make changes...

And ...the Connecticut legislature took action and passed a law that now requires those who get life without parole to serve that sentence without recreation or contact visits."

So if acquaintances/friends of those behind bars write in-- 'til their fingers bleed--about the corruptness of DOC, legislature doesn't even twitch?

All I can say is...wow.

If Blecker wants to base his book on fact, he needs to go reside on the other side of that wall and get a real taste of luxury.

[krc1abc1]

None of this makes any sense what so ever. Of course if changes would occur the corruption would have to stop. I wonder how many people are aware that inmates across the country are fed food that is not for human consumption. This is not in just one department but nationwide. And tv shows like Lockup do not paint an adequate picture. They make COs seem like saints and inmates look like animals. Of course blogging on here isn't going to solve the problem we as citizens need to let our government know enough is enough

[OneOfMany]

Here's an interesting article: http://abcnews.go.com/US/death-row-d...8#.T-PH_MjNlmo

So, this tells me that the other article is being used to push somebody else's agenda.

[iLYD.R.E]

Originally Posted by krc1abc1

None of this makes any sense what so ever. Of course if changes would occur the corruption would have to stop. I wonder how many people are aware that inmates across the country are fed food that is not for human consumption. This is not in just one department but nationwide. And tv shows like Lockup do not paint an adequate picture. They make COs seem like saints and inmates look like animals. Of course blogging on here isn't going to solve the problem we as citizens need to let our government know enough is enough

My point exactly I've been emailing governor jerry for the pass couple of months now not one response. Pretty soon ill be sending him a letter obviously letters work better or something this guy got his point out there.

[krc1abc1]

I think our gobs plate is a little full but I would love to give him some ideas about how to fix his budget. He can start with releasing worthy lifers who have served decades more than their minimum. There are approximately 20,000 of them and some must surely be ready to go home.

[hellen1970]

I read this all and for to be honest I am very shocked about the US prison system. Years ago, I had no doubt about, but I have to learn a lot because my man is a Federal Prisoner - I met him during his prison time. I am from Germany and in another post, I say something like this here. For me as an European it is a horrible situation. Here at Germany the highest charge you can get is 15 years - it called life sentence, and it is for murders. If they have a very very bad crime, they are not able to go out after this 15 years they send to a place called security custody, it has more comfort than prison, and they look all two years if this person is able to get free.
At the normal prison( we haven't this different prisons) they have a lot of human rights - how large the room is, their own clothes and TV and open doors minimum 10 hours a day, also work, and it is paid - not much but ok. School, books and magazines for everyone and also medical health.
Perhaps you think it is too much for a convicted felon, but from 10 inmates only 2-3 come back either.
If a prisoner gets life (15years) he had to spend this 15 years and go out after this. If they get a time charge between one year and 15 years, the go out after 2/3 of the time and regular the spend the last 2 or 3 years in something like a half-way house and have 30days of holiday a year.
So if I see what is happened here at the US I can't believe or accept it. SHU or the hole is against any human rights and here at the US it sounds like that prison is only a big business, and they need as much as possible inmates.
I don't want to say that people that hurt or murder someone should live in a hotel, but I think it can't be right that they were punished in her case and sentences.

[krc1abc1]

I wish my man and I were in Germany. He is on a 7 to life and down 34 years. In Germany he would be home. I think you have hit it on the head prison here is big business. I think the idea in corrections is to remove a person from society so that they cannot victimize anyone else while they are given the time to rehabilitate themselves so as not to repeat their mistakes. Instead in this country we are hell bent on this"eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth mentality". We have lost all sight of the humanitarian aspects of this issue. There are basic human rights that every one should have but inmates don't seem to qualify. In the US we present ourselves to be such humanitarians, but shame on us we do nothing to remotely provide any humanitarian efforts in our own country. We are willing to spend billions of tax payers dollars to fight wars against oppressive governments whose policies are anything but humanitarian, and on the flip side our prison system is one of the worst most antiquated in the world. What would our government say if a foreign government fed food that was not for human consumption to their prisoners? It is common place n this country and yet no one says anything in fact by and large the citizen of this country believe that this is an acceptable practice. We are way behind in our thinking and it is time for change.

[26thncaliswag]

In all honesty, it's not suppoesed to be a pleasant experience. Most incarcerants have wronged somebody and part of the penalty for that is custody. I can't fathom poular public opinion feeling comfortable with umpipred softball games, pool tables, and color tv's with cable when a significant poulation of law abiding citizens can't get those amenities.

I don't think that inmates should be shackled barefoot and put out in the fields from sun up to sundown. But I do feel that that depiction of prison is way too lenient for someone that has made choices that called for prison to be introduced to his or her life.

[hellen1970]

Originally Posted by 26thncaliswag

In all honesty, it's not suppoesed to be a pleasant experience. Most incarcerants have wronged somebody and part of the penalty for that is custody. I can't fathom poular public opinion feeling comfortable with umpipred softball games, pool tables, and color tv's with cable when a significant poulation of law abiding citizens can't get those amenities.

I don't think that inmates should be shackled barefoot and put out in the fields from sun up to sundown. But I do feel that that depiction of prison is way too lenient for someone that has made choices that called for prison to be introduced to his or her life.

Perhaps you are right, but why a lot of inmates come back at the USA and it isn't like this at Germany? So the way they punished here can't be a way that works.

[marie8899]

I believe Germany is light-years ahead of the U.S. in its thinking about incarceration. We are highly invested in our self-righteousness and indignation towards those who commit certain kind of crimes, and our prison system now appears to be largely focused on enacting revenge and imposing ongoing punishment on the incarcerated. At the same time, those with privilege and money enjoy a different tier of "justice."

As far as treatment of prisoners, anytime you put human beings into a system that degrades, mistreats and humiliates them, your chances of producing "rehabilitated" human beings are very low. It may satisfy the public cry for punishment but that's it. We traumatize and mistreat human beings and expect them to successfully integrate themselves back into society. Or do we? In reality, it appears our system really is set up to maintain a certain percentage of the population locked up at all times. Doing so removes people from the competitive job market, provides corrections-related employment for thousands of persons working in courts, jails and prisons, and ensures numerous additional monetary benefits for states and private contracting companies that provide "services" to inmates and their loved ones.

[Leowoman]

Even as a teenager I felt prisons should focus on correcting bad behaviors not solely on punishment. I often look at it from the point of view of a parent. When your child does something wrong, is your aim to teach your child the correct behavior or to just punish them? My husband made a mistake when he was 18. He stole from people who trusted him. He is 33 now and is still paying the price as a convicted felon. He fully accepts responsibility for his mistake. When will he be forgiven? In our society, never. The punishment is being taken out of society, but the solution to the bad behavior isn't turning humans into animals. I always told my children my goal as their parent was to teach them to be independent adults. Our goal as a society should be to teach our prisoners to be productive members of society.

[OneOfMany]

Originally Posted by 26thncaliswag

I can't fathom poular public opinion feeling comfortable with umpipred softball games, pool tables, and color tv's with cable when a significant poulation of law abiding citizens can't get those amenities.

Yet, the fact that these umpired softball games, recreational equipment, and color TVs with cable are only a fraction of costs that tax payers are paying for. Of course, political figures go for the emotional jugular of the public, using the most heinous of crimes committed (which is a small percentage of murder cases) to tout their "lock 'em up and throw away the key" political tactic.

The United States warehouses prisoners. Each state gets an allowance from federal budget for each prisoner. More prisoners...more money. And where does the federal budget get its money? From poor Joe/Jane Blow who's trying to make ends meet. That's the REAL drain from the citizen's purse.

I hope Americans are starting to see this. After all, the more people incarcerated, the more likely it is that when a stick is thrown, it's probably going to hit someone who has a family member who's incarcerated or, at least, someone who knows someone who knows someone etc. who's serving time.

As for the topic of the thread, "convicted killers" should be treated as humanely as any other prisoner. Luxury can be defined in different ways so I'll just stick with humanely. Proper food and proper boarding and held securely to protect the public and the prisoner.

The article that the OP posted doesn't tell the whole story and it really infuriates me how political figures choose snippets of it to justify actions while ignoring the full story.

[hellen1970]

Originally Posted by marie8899

I believe Germany is light-years ahead of the U.S. in its thinking about incarceration. We are highly invested in our self-righteousness and indignation towards those who commit certain kind of crimes, and our prison system now appears to be largely focused on enacting revenge and imposing ongoing punishment on the incarcerated. At the same time, those with privilege and money enjoy a different tier of "justice."

As far as treatment of prisoners, anytime you put human beings into a system that degrades, mistreats and humiliates them, your chances of producing "rehabilitated" human beings are very low. It may satisfy the public cry for punishment but that's it. We traumatize and mistreat human beings and expect them to successfully integrate themselves back into society. Or do we? In reality, it appears our system really is set up to maintain a certain percentage of the population locked up at all times. Doing so removes people from the competitive job market, provides corrections-related employment for thousands of persons working in courts, jails and prisons, and ensures numerous additional monetary benefits for states and private contracting companies that provide "services" to inmates and their loved ones.

For me, three points are important and wrong about the US system -
First - there is a justice only for rich ones, if you are able to pay a popular lawyer, you have a good chance to go out or have not such a long sentence
If you need a state lawyer, you have no chance - mostly
second, you will be a convicted felon all the rest of your life, because everyone can see your criminal record at the internet.
At Germany, nobody can know this without lawyer or the state. It is a data secure law.

Third, it is a business and you have privacy prisons and the inmates are a worker for to earn money without any rights.
At Germany, the prison "owner" is the state, and the inmates work and get paid, and they are able to save money for their release and a new start.

And it can't be that family, and friends will be punished and discriminated because a loved one or son or whatever is a prisoner or ex-prisoner.

[marie8899]

I hope everyone will read this article. It was very hard for me to read because it describes very well how profits are made off of the incarceration of large numbers of people in this country. Here is the link:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8289

[SusanWayward]

If we're going to talk about pool tables and other so-called "luxuries" that free people supposedly can't access, we can either go back to the fact that "free" people are "free" to go join the inmates anytime they choose if they feel being an inmate is so luxurious or better yet ---

we can "follow the money"

• - prison systems today are taking a cut and raking in considerable amounts of money from inmate phone calls, video visiting, visitor fees, charging room and board, commissary contracts, etc.
  
• - that money comes from the inmates themselves or from their families & friends.
  
• - when these arrangements are put into place, in many states the money is nominally supposed to go toward programs for the inmates, in whole or in part.
  
• - yet, we see very little being done for the inmates, educational programs disappearing, basic necessities are scrimped on, proper medical care isn't provided, medications withheld....and so on.
  

Loss of liberty is the punishment. They go to prison as punishment, not for punishment.

A just system would use the time to rehabilitate wherever possible, not to extract vengeance.

Further, check out the breakdown of how many inmates in your state system are in for victimless crimes and petty administrative parole violations.

In some places it is over 50%. Most prisoners incarcerated for drug offenses harmed no one but other willing participants.

When does the anger and resentment stop? Prisoners are just convenient scapegoats for the dissatisfaction Americans feel about their own lives.

[chrisnlove]

I agree.. I have a loved one in the system I am also a victim so with that being said. I wish my loved one was handled better I hate it in there for him.

[marie8899]

"When does the anger and resentment stop? Prisoners are just convenient scapegoats for the dissatisfaction Americans feel about their own lives."

Very perceptive comment. Just like the scapegoating of immigrants in this country. Whenever the economy is not doing well, it seems the hate level rises.