Notice to new members intending to register - from January 9th 2012

onecoolguy · #1 07-30-2012, 02:08 AM

Im trying to find out how counts work does anyone know? is it up to the investigating officer? IE: 3 counts of sexual abuse. how do they get the 3 if there was only 1 victim? is it like if the victim said it happend 3 times ?

**fbopnomore** · #2 07-30-2012, 09:08 AM

This definitely happens in federal prosecutions, but each state may have their own rules.

It's up to the prosecutor. They decide what to charge in a grand jury indictment (mandated by the US Constitution for all felony charges) and then try to sell it to the GJ. The only witnesses at the GJ are the ones the prosecutor calls, so the saying that they could indict a ham sandwich is pretty accurate. Prosecutors almost always overcharge so they have some chips to offer in a plea bargain. If he is only guilty of one count, is indicted on 3, and the kind prosecutor then offers to drop two of the counts for a guilty plea to one, the defendant thinks he is being offered a sweet deal.

Felony criminal charges can also be initiated by a prosecutor's "information" but that requires the agreement of the defendant to waive the indictment.

Scott · #3 07-30-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onecoolguy

Im trying to find out how counts work does anyone know? is it up to the investigating officer? IE: 3 counts of sexual abuse. how do they get the 3 if there was only 1 victim? is it like if the victim said it happend 3 times ?

Each criminal "instance" is considered a separate crime. In the case of sexual abuse, each instance of abuse can be charged as a separate crime, and would constitute a "count" for indictment purposes.

In the case of theft, or writing bad checks, each check could be considered a separate count, since it is a separate criminal offense.

If a bank robber robs a bank and holds ten people hostage, he/she could be charged with ten counts of kidnapping, or even attempted murder if weapons were involved, in addition to the bank-robbery charges.

fbopnomore is right that often Prosecutors will include as many counts as possible with the idea that it gives them leverage in terms of a plea-bargain, or other incentive. However, it is important to remember that Prosecutors can only charge if they reasonably believe the instance of crime has been committed.

Because of the nature of "Counts", it is possible for someone to be charged with six or seven counts of something, and because of mitigating factors, only be found guilty of two or three.

onecoolguy · #4 07-31-2012, 01:22 AM

Thanks for the information, basically I believe i will be charged with Sexual abuse 2nd degree soon...

I know everyone says they are innocent but i am 100% innocent.

Things happend that made me feel uncomfortable that invovled a family member of hers , so i told my wife about it, when she questioned the younger female family member she must have turned the story around, and made it look like i have touched her before, which is very upsetting to me, and it neverr happend.

When i talked to investigators they said that the other person said that I "touched" them (in some detail) One night a while back, the next morning and then again recently.

My fear is they will try to say, OH you touched her boob, thats one count, her butt, thats 2 count Etc.etc. and it happend 3 times, so im afraid they will try to say like 20 counts or something.

but if i understand you correctly, I should only seem to face 3 counts?
since she said it happend on 3 seperate occasion?

Im scared to death ive never been introuble with the law, and again im 100% innocent but everywhere i look and even my lawyer told me that her word is enough to convict me.

and on top of all this my wife believes the famliy member =(( i dont know why ive never cheated on her or given her a reason to think id cheat on her.
Im guessing its hard to choose between your blood and your marriage-- i wouldnt leave my wife, but i can only imagine that she thinks ill be going to jail and if she turned her back on her family member then when i went to jail and she had no one to be there for her her family may then turn their back o her, but thats all another story.

Scott · #5 07-31-2012, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onecoolguy

...but if i understand you correctly, I should only seem to face 3 counts? since she said it happend on 3 seperate occasion?

Three separate occasions would be three counts. That's correct.

onecoolguy · #6 07-31-2012, 02:07 AM

thats good to know, its not great news but better then was i was fearing.

Ive never dealt with the law besides speeding tickets. My biggest fear is having to register as a sex offender the rest of my life.

I know alot of people say plea bargains are bad but i would take a plea bargain in a heart beat if i didnt have to register as a sex offender.

Scott · #7 07-31-2012, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onecoolguy

thats good to know, its not great news but better then was i was fearing.

Ive never dealt with the law besides speeding tickets. My biggest fear is having to register as a sex offender the rest of my life.

I know alot of people say plea bargains are bad but i would take a plea bargain in a heart beat if i didnt have to register as a sex offender.

You should never plead guilty to something you really didn't do.

onecoolguy · #8 07-31-2012, 02:30 AM

I've heard that too, but In my state it seems that anyone who is accused of sexual abuse of a minor gets convicted. ive done tons of research and it always seems like you Have to prove yourself 100% innocent and i cant do that. I dont know how to do that.

the girl that is accusing me has a history of talking to older guys on facebook type websites, even talking to one guy on facebook about sexual acts I know that her password was changed and no one know its - maybe my lawyer can contact facebook and get screenshots or something? I have no idea how this works. i just dont want to have to register- i want a life!! and i dont see how its possible being a registered sex offender.

JuliannRN · #9 07-31-2012, 05:42 AM

Sadly the past behavior is protected under the rape shield law. This simply means that no matter what she has done in the past, it can not be brought up. Talking to guys about sex can only be used to try to discredit her. But its a long shot. I had actual messages where my son was asked to meet his accuser two weeks after the alleged act and she spun a lie about them which caused them to be inadmissable. Truly sad.

**fbopnomore** · #10 07-31-2012, 07:39 AM

Also be careful about any specifics of your case that you post on public boards, which the prosecutors and police read too. You and your lawyer will have to decide what to do if you are actually charged. The lawyer will know the strength of the case against you, and if a mere lie from the victim on the witness stand, with no corroborating evidence, can result in a conviction. If it could, you and your lawyer need to do whatever is best to minimize the punishment. But also be sure that you understand the ramifications of the sex offender probation/parole, SO registration and SO residency restrictions in your state, because they are in addition to any prison sentence.

onecoolguy · #11 07-31-2012, 07:41 AM

I think thats all i could try to use it for is like my character vs hers. I dont even know, my lawyer hasnt talked much to me about everything because i havent even been charged yet. I guess 'nothing matters' till i know what the charges are then we will work on my defence. Im scared to death!

I cant believe im even in this situation, my life maybe is already ruined but it may be ruined even farther in days/weeks/months especially if i have to register.

I dont know how a first time offender/ Plea bargaining will work out with me =/ as said before i'd probably accept anything if i didnt have to register.

onecoolguy · #12 07-31-2012, 07:42 AM

yeah, I believe my state has the strictest laws In the united states

onecoolguy · #13 07-31-2012, 08:03 AM

can a mod go ahead and delete this entire thread, i guess with it being public i may not need to post some of the things i did - i would appreciate itl

Scott · #14 08-01-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onecoolguy

I think thats all i could try to use it for is like my character vs hers. I dont even know, my lawyer hasnt talked much to me about everything because i havent even been charged yet. I guess 'nothing matters' till i know what the charges are then we will work on my defence. Im scared to death!

I cant believe im even in this situation, my life maybe is already ruined but it may be ruined even farther in days/weeks/months especially if i have to register.

I dont know how a first time offender/ Plea bargaining will work out with me =/ as said before i'd probably accept anything if i didnt have to register.

I can't speak for the person(s) assigned to moderate this thread, but I doubt it will be deleted, since there useful information for other people. There really isn't anything here that will identify you. Many of us would like our problems to just go away, but the reality is that they won't. That's reflective of this thread, or your situation. Something happened to create it - and the great lesson is learning to ask ourselves "What are the possible outcomes of my present behavior."

If you haven't even been charged, perhaps you are "catastrophizing" things just a little. Stuff happens in life - we deal with it. You will too. Whether your life is "ruined" or not depends on your attitude, not any external circumstances.

I'm sure it's an anxious time for you - but whether or not whatever happens requires you to eventually register as a SO is really out of your control. That will not be a bargaining chip since registration is actually tied to the kinds of charges you are charged with, not the counts or circumstances. Registering as a sex offender isn't considered a "punishment", as much as a management tool.

26thncaliswag · #15 08-01-2012, 03:21 PM

Counts also mount up depending on circumstances surrounding an arrest. Sexual assault is one charge. Sexual assault to a minor is another. Sexual assault causing penetration is another. Sexual assault/molestation. Sexual assault/Sodomy. It goes on and on The state gets really creative when it comes to stacking charges. They'll go for far fetched to obvious and hope they make the obvious stick.

onecoolguy · #16 08-02-2012, 03:11 PM

Should my lawyer be doing anything now? He's heard the basics of ny case but doesn't really seem like he's doing anything. Sure he's talked to the investigator to try to find out what's going in.. I'm hoping its just because I haven't been charged so he can't really prepare a case not knowing what I'm facing?