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  #151  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:21 AM
jeswannabhiswyf jeswannabhiswyf is offline
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I'll point out that it's interesting....not just here but on other threads......women almost unanimously are opposed to their men being involved sexually with another inmate. Men on the other hand seem to be more permissive of it. Now, I personally am not stepping out. Others do have permission.

I am not sure why there's a gender difference exactly. I don't think it's an issue of us men being "dogs" so to speak because clearly we are all very much in love with and very supportive of our women. I was having a terrible day today and 15 minutes on the phone with Dee completely lit up my world. We are a team in all regards except one right now and that's going to cease to be an issue in exactly 4 months (and a few hours.)

Anyone have any thoughts on the gender gap?

-E

Some men fantasize about 2 women. That can be a turn on for them. For most women, it's not attractive for your man to penetrate another man, and especially unattractive for him to be penetrated. For me personally, I'm too strong of a woman to respect him as my man if he's accepting the same organ I accept. Either emasculates him in my eyes. I require a strong, manly man. Please understand that I have nothing against men who have sexual encounters with other men. That's their choice and it doesn't affect me. However, that group of men is eliminated from my relationship/sexual encounter choice pool.
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  #152  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:30 AM
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Some men fantasize about 2 women. That can be a turn on for them. For most women, it's not attractive for your man to penetrate another man, and especially unattractive for him to be penetrated. For me personally, I'm too strong of a woman to respect him as my man if he's accepting the same organ I accept. Either emasculates him in my eyes. I require a strong, manly man. Please understand that I have nothing against men who have sexual encounters with other men. That's their choice and it doesn't affect me. However, that group of men is eliminated from my relationship/sexual encounter choice pool.


All due respect.....the women Dee was around......not exactly my idea of fantasy-worthy. So at least in my case there wasnít an issue of being aroused of the idea of her with other women (others may view it differently in their own situations.)

I think your response does make an interesting point about some of the differences in the preferences of men with an incarcerated woman in their lives vs. women with an incarcerated man. Thereís different views of what is and isnít acceptable not just in our specific relationships, but what has become acceptable/unacceptable in gender roles. Penetration seems to be a big deal.......thereís something very intimate and personal about penetration and....all due respect....two women canít exactly be quite that way. Something about male genitalia seems to make the matter more serious for some reason. If you ask most men, youíre probably onto something....much more tolerance of their women being with other woman than if they had a sexual relationship with, say, a male correctional officer.
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  #153  
Old 11-18-2017, 03:31 PM
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All due respect.....the women Dee was around......not exactly my idea of fantasy-worthy. So at least in my case there wasnít an issue of being aroused of the idea of her with other women (others may view it differently in their own situations.)

I think your response does make an interesting point about some of the differences in the preferences of men with an incarcerated woman in their lives vs. women with an incarcerated man. Thereís different views of what is and isnít acceptable not just in our specific relationships, but what has become acceptable/unacceptable in gender roles. Penetration seems to be a big deal.......thereís something very intimate and personal about penetration and....all due respect....two women canít exactly be quite that way. Something about male genitalia seems to make the matter more serious for some reason. If you ask most men, youíre probably onto something....much more tolerance of their women being with other woman than if they had a sexual relationship with, say, a male correctional officer.
I agree with jeswanna..I think many (not all) men have this thing about 2 women together and so they are just more ok with the idea of their LO being with another woman as opposed to a woman being ok with their male LO being with another man. I also think society is in general more approving of 2 women together than 2 males together, for whatever reason.

Personally, while it is not for me, and it is not for my husband, I think it truly depends on the situation and people shouldn't be judged for whatever their arrangement is. Obviously, if someone has a sentence that they're never going to see the light of day again, we may all feel differently about what they do or don't do inside than if they were going to get out in a few years. Just like if we were the ones free on the outside, I can't imagine we would choose to be celibate forever in the same scenario, but as I constantly tell people, you never know what you would do unless you are in the same situation, so you can't judge.

I would definitely bet if research were done however, that women do engage in more sexual relationships in prison than their male counterparts. I would think that is because women do so more for the emotional connection. Men probably don't need that as much and are not seeking that. Imagine how many of these women are away from their children. Many of us our nurturers, and I am sure these women crave that as well as crave being nurtured by anyone. One thing however in a woman's prison that must be something to see, is that there must be some high drama! That is for sure!! The amount of hormones going crazy, sneaking around, jealousy, time of the month issues. I cannot imagine!

And by the way, someone made a comment about no STD's between women? That is false. Women can spread STDs. STDs are spread by bodily fluids. They are not just spread by ejaculating into someone.

At the end of the day, like I said, whatever works for one may not work for all and if it works for you, more power to you. My biggest worry is getting my husband out in one piece (fortunately he's just going to a camp), and what kind of long-term emotional impact it will have on him or what kind of bad changes there may be when he comes out. He's older, so to some degree this is the one time I hope the "leopard doesn't change their spots" statement holds true!
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  #154  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:07 PM
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I agree with jeswanna..I think many (not all) men have this thing about 2 women together and so they are just more ok with the idea of their LO being with another woman as opposed to a woman being ok with their male LO being with another man. I also think society is in general more approving of 2 women together than 2 males together, for whatever reason.

Personally, while it is not for me, and it is not for my husband, I think it truly depends on the situation and people shouldn't be judged for whatever their arrangement is. Obviously, if someone has a sentence that they're never going to see the light of day again, we may all feel differently about what they do or don't do inside than if they were going to get out in a few years. Just like if we were the ones free on the outside, I can't imagine we would choose to be celibate forever in the same scenario, but as I constantly tell people, you never know what you would do unless you are in the same situation, so you can't judge.

I would definitely bet if research were done however, that women do engage in more sexual relationships in prison than their male counterparts. I would think that is because women do so more for the emotional connection. Men probably don't need that as much and are not seeking that. Imagine how many of these women are away from their children. Many of us our nurturers, and I am sure these women crave that as well as crave being nurtured by anyone. One thing however in a woman's prison that must be something to see, is that there must be some high drama! That is for sure!! The amount of hormones going crazy, sneaking around, jealousy, time of the month issues. I cannot imagine!

And by the way, someone made a comment about no STD's between women? That is false. Women can spread STDs. STDs are spread by bodily fluids. They are not just spread by ejaculating into someone.

At the end of the day, like I said, whatever works for one may not work for all and if it works for you, more power to you. My biggest worry is getting my husband out in one piece (fortunately he's just going to a camp), and what kind of long-term emotional impact it will have on him or what kind of bad changes there may be when he comes out. He's older, so to some degree this is the one time I hope the "leopard doesn't change their spots" statement holds true!
I agree!!!! I just want my husband home.
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  #155  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:42 PM
KaylaPaige KaylaPaige is offline
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As a woman that was incarcerated... I know so many women that would go kiss their husbands at visitation and curl up in bed with a woman at night. So, you really have no idea what's going on inside. It's all about trust.

But to ever really say that you know... most people have no idea. I'm not even counting the sexual harassment by CO's and no, not everyone seeks that out. It happens far more than you would think.

Also, the STD rate is astronomical in prison... but then again, you have a lot of people getting prison tattoos too... which is hazardous to your health.

My two cents, people really have no idea what happens in prison, and most women leave those relationships behind when they hit the gates. Guess what, their men never know.
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  #156  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:31 PM
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As a woman that was incarcerated... I know so many women that would go kiss their husbands at visitation and curl up in bed with a woman at night. So, you really have no idea what's going on inside. It's all about trust.

But to ever really say that you know... most people have no idea. I'm not even counting the sexual harassment by CO's and no, not everyone seeks that out. It happens far more than you would think.

Also, the STD rate is astronomical in prison... but then again, you have a lot of people getting prison tattoos too... which is hazardous to your health.

My two cents, people really have no idea what happens in prison, and most women leave those relationships behind when they hit the gates. Guess what, their men never know.
I totally believe you. I actually wouldn't be surprised if there are actually a lot of male/male relationships that men leave behind the second they hit the gates as well that are never discussed either. The only people that really know what goes on in prison, are the people inside. Those "secrets" stay with those people. How can any of us really know unless we've been there? And I don't think there are too many of us that would want to trade places either. You do what you need to do to survive and get through each day. Totally different than us on the outside, and I know my husband will have it much easier than most people on this site by being at a camp, but I am planning to do the same thing, whatever I can to survive and get through him being away, one day at a time. I'm not planning to have any relationships with women or men for that matter, but my kids are my priority and making sure they're safe and sound and protected are what is most important and that we get through each day as best as we can!
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  #157  
Old 11-19-2017, 03:55 PM
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I have generally avoided this thread since it started a long time back. As a counter I thought about creating a thread in the PTO lounge section along the lines if a plane carrying your loved one crashed in the Andes would you be ok if they had to do the whole "Alive" thing? For the record, I would have no problem with AM around steak knives after that.

Sex and same sex relationships happen in women's prisons. AM was pretty upfront with me about the subject. We talked about it at length. Whether or not they make the time go easier is not for me to say. People have a choice about how they are going to do their time. No matter what people say about Vegas/Prison Rules, secrets have a tendency to come out and hurt those you say you love.

That said, there was never a visitation where I needed more than my fingers to count the husbands/boyfriends in a room. They were like the elusive endangered species in an old Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom episode. Not Tasmanian Tiger rare, but rare.

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  #158  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:14 PM
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I have generally avoided this thread since it started a long time back. As a counter I thought about creating a thread in the PTO lounge section along the lines if a plane carrying your loved one crashed in the Andes would you be ok if they had to do the whole "Alive" thing? For the record, I would have no problem with AM around steak knives after that.

Sex and same sex relationships happen in women's prisons. AM was pretty upfront with me about the subject. We talked about it at length. Whether or not they make the time go easier is not for me to say. People have a choice about how they are going to do their time. No matter what people say about Vegas/Prison Rules, secrets have a tendency to come out and hurt those you say you love.

That said, there was never a visitation where I needed more than my fingers to count the husbands/boyfriends in a room. They were like the elusive endangered species in an old Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom episode. Not Tasmanian Tiger rare, but rare.
Are you saying that over time, that male just stop visiting their spouses/LOs?

I am sure a lot of stuff happens inside, but if someone's LO is locked up for 10 years, wouldn't you think the tempation for the one on the outside is just as great if not greater for them to do have an outside relationship as well? The difference might be the same sex issue? Like your Alive example, when it's your only option, what choices do they have, if they want the physical intimacy.

As I am watching the Patriots game, it reminds me of Aaron Rodriguez. Who would have ever thought that even he had a boyfriend in prison, only revealed when he committed suicide. So, people will do what they have to do to survive, get by, or just whatever it is they need to do to get through each day. I always say and I said it previously in this thread, none of us know what we would do and shouldn't just one another, until and unless we are in that same situation. We can all say, no way, but really, do we ever know?
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:41 PM
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Are you saying that over time, that male just stop visiting their spouses/LOs?
I only had a year in the visiting rooom, by no means enough time to draw that kind of conclusion, but AM told me that most around her were on their own before they reached prison.

I saw two older couples regularly, and I came to recognize a few other guys over several months time, but most of the men were fathers or grandfathers. Who knows maybe the other visiting day was the one where all the guys showed up, and I was always in the women and children group. I also avoided Thanksgiving and Christmas Day because they were zoos and AM preferred not go through that as well.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:23 PM
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I can't visit my husband this year at Christmas, but I'll have to ask him to pay attention to see if he will want me to come next year or if it is too much of a zoo or not. He will be coming down the home stretch at that point.

Our anniversary will be the day after Thanksgiving next year, so I will probably want to visit that weekend, although it's 5 straight days of visiting, so ya probably will be a zoo!
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:15 PM
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As a woman that was incarcerated... I know so many women that would go kiss their husbands at visitation and curl up in bed with a woman at night. So, you really have no idea what's going on inside. It's all about trust.

But to ever really say that you know... most people have no idea. I'm not even counting the sexual harassment by CO's and no, not everyone seeks that out. It happens far more than you would think.

Also, the STD rate is astronomical in prison... but then again, you have a lot of people getting prison tattoos too... which is hazardous to your health.

My two cents, people really have no idea what happens in prison, and most women leave those relationships behind when they hit the gates. Guess what, their men never know.
Dee and I maintained pretty open communication, so in my case I knew I was one of those men that would see his lady at visitation then have her go back to a woman she was housed with at times. I had, essentially, two rules.
1.) If it happened I wanted her to be open with me about it and 2.) I didn't need to know details, but I did need to understand, honestly, what if any impact it had on our relationship.

She followed those rules. And it ultimately strengthened our relationships becaouse of part 2: she, at one point, found herself questioning a lot of things about herself because one of the relationships did start to turn serious. At that point I backed off the "boyfriend" role and took an "emotionally supportive" role (not that the relationship ended but the manner which I focused on it changed.) Ultimately, as I said, it strengthened our relationship....Dee doesn't trust easily, she went through a good portion of her time in prison afraid that I was going to leave eventually and how I handled that situation ultimately erased that fear.

I will never know about everything that went on inside....Dee has been very open about her experience, but some things I don't ask about. She went through enough. I don't need to be rehashing trauma any more than necessary. But I do know enough to have a decent idea of what went on in there (and that is part of why I am cautious about what questions I ask or what topics I bring up.....because some of the ones she's brought up on her own have been painful enough.)

I do know that a good number of men who are in relationships with the women don't know what goes on, or they may have an idea that things happen in prison between the women but not suspect that the specific woman they are with has relationships with other women. Dee opened up about a lot of that stuff. I knew some of the men were, at minimum, in situations where the woman was considering attempting a relationship with them post-release but not as committed to it as they voiced, and other men were out-and-out being taken advantage of. There were only a couple of situations where Dee confirmed that what I was seeing was a genuine relationship where the women were either 100% faithful or were honest with their significant other about what they were doing but were otherwise committed (I know some people would argue that this isn't a sign of commitment, and that's fine....I've learned a lot from people with different perspectives on this topic. My point here is from my perspective. Respectfully...some people would disagree with that perspective, and that's okay.)

I appreciate you sharing some of what you experienced.....we don't have a ton of men on this site so getting some perspective from the women, especially the women who have been locked up, is very valuable as it does help fill in some gaps. I do believe that the men who come here are incredibly dedicated to their women and I know that they appreciate the additional input as well.

-E
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:42 PM
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Very well said and I think you nailed it when you said you communicate open and honestly. It's not that she is telling you everything, and it's not that you're pushing. But, she is at least communicating, she met your expectations, and that is what matters the most. I have to hand it to you! She should know how lucky she is to have someone like you.

I'm not worried my husband is going to have any kind of affair inside, emotional or physical, but I am worried about the emotional toll the whole thing will have on him. A lot of inmates probably need therapy when they get out, just to deal with what happened to them when they were in! Different from the therapy they got when they were in!!
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  #163  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:52 PM
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Are you saying that over time, that male just stop visiting their spouses/LOs?

I am sure a lot of stuff happens inside, but if someone's LO is locked up for 10 years, wouldn't you think the tempation for the one on the outside is just as great if not greater for them to do have an outside relationship as well? The difference might be the same sex issue? Like your Alive example, when it's your only option, what choices do they have, if they want the physical intimacy.

As I am watching the Patriots game, it reminds me of Aaron Rodriguez. Who would have ever thought that even he had a boyfriend in prison, only revealed when he committed suicide. So, people will do what they have to do to survive, get by, or just whatever it is they need to do to get through each day. I always say and I said it previously in this thread, none of us know what we would do and shouldn't just one another, until and unless we are in that same situation. We can all say, no way, but really, do we ever know?
Not to nitpick, but in case anyone's confused, the player in question is Aaron Hernandez, not Rodriguez. (Don't worry, names get confused and your point was otherwise a really good one, just wanted to make sure people didn't think there was a second Patriot with the name Aaron who went to prison and killed themselves....)

Beyond that.....I will say that a lot of women lose their relationships in there. If not once they get to prison then before. There's apparently a statistic...I don't know if it's a hypothetical someone came up with based on their observation or if it was scientifically researched, but in my own experience there's a lot of truth to it....not counting children (only adults) the visiting room at a mens prison is 80% women and 20% men...and the visiting room at a womens prison is 80% women and 20% men. I never counted, but visually I'd say that it is usually 20-30% men visiting when I've visited, and of those at least half were NOT boyfriends/husbands. By contrast, I've heard that most visitors in a mens' prison are spouses or girlfriends (the remainder are usually mothers or close family.) The way Dee has explained it to me it's pretty much expected that if you're in a relationship when you get arrested that you won't be by the time you're released and that they usually end quickly. A lot of men don't have the same level of loyalty, don't have patience. I could hypothesize as to why all day long but honestly I think it comes down to a lack of patience. They didn't sign up for this, so to speak. Most men that I've come across in there either responded to pen pal ads or were otherwise introduced to their women LO's AFTER incarceration. I do think that "knowing you're getting into a relationship with someone who's incarcerated and being okay with it" is why a lot of these MWI-type relationships work as far as the men are concerned. I don't know proportions, but Dee said most of the women who were in relationships were either 1.) in relationships with women who they were housed with, 2.) in secret relationships with staff members (keep in mind that, at least at some prisons, not everyone on prison staff is a correctional officer. In some cases they are free-world workers contracted to jobs that happen to be on prison grounds and oftentimes there are inmate workers who work along side them. I've been aware of several relationships like this....out of respect to those inmates I have ALWAYS kept my mouth shut.) 3.) With men who either found them on a Pen Pal site or people that they knew pre-prison who they weren't in a relationship with before who decided to seek them out and check up on them who decided to be with them afterward.

By no means is this scientific beyond whatever scientific abilities my mind may have. LOL! I did major in Sociology so I do try to take a scientific approach to things like this sometimes. But hopefully this provides some additional insight with the women. I don't have anywhere near as much insight into the men. I do have a cousin who's spent about 6 years of his life in prison and it's sad because he's a good dude but it has warped his perspectives on life a bit (his reason for going to prison: 18 years old, drank, was staying the night at a friend's house, a buddy frantically begged him to drive him somewhere at 3 in the morning, he stupidly decided to do it, they got in a crash and he watched his buddy die. His BAC? Something like .05, legal for 21+ but a DUI for an 18 year old, so he did time for DUI/Manslaughter.) I had a conversation one time with him and he said "I don't know who does what, that's their business, but I didn't do any of that gay (expletive.)" So I didn't really get much insight about male prisons beyond his immediate experience. Too small a sample size....
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:54 AM
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Very well said and I think you nailed it when you said you communicate open and honestly. It's not that she is telling you everything, and it's not that you're pushing. But, she is at least communicating, she met your expectations, and that is what matters the most. I have to hand it to you! She should know how lucky she is to have someone like you.

I'm not worried my husband is going to have any kind of affair inside, emotional or physical, but I am worried about the emotional toll the whole thing will have on him. A lot of inmates probably need therapy when they get out, just to deal with what happened to them when they were in! Different from the therapy they got when they were in!!
Oh, I agree, there's a lot of adjustment issues that come both with being in prison and with coming out. Dee's been out a little over 11 months. Fortunately because she was already in a mental health program in prison, part of her requirement post-prison has been to see a therapist connected to her parole office. Once she's off parole they will connect her with mental health services as necessary so she can continue to receive the support. But I've seen her go through a lot of different changes and mindsets. I'm happy to report she is, on the whole, doing well, although coping with outside life does come with its issues. Rebuilding a bond with her children has been a challenge....fortunately they are giving her opportunities to do so, but her daughters in particular are very hurt (her son has less of a memory of her not either getting in trouble or being out here in the free world so he seems to harvest less anger and has been an absolute sweetheart to her.....total mama's boy, and I'm glad because I know how good that makes her feel.) That pain doesn't go away, the pain she feels for letting them down heals slowly, and of course when they get mad at her she takes it VERY personally, so those are the hardest days.

I think that also is a contributing factor, btw, to why women tend to develop romantic and emotional attachments with other women there. It's part of the coping mechanism, and it's part of why I decided to set parameters for our relationship and her possible relationships with women that I did. Because I knew that she needed more emotional support than I could give her by writing letters, visiting when I could/was allowed (long story,) and talking to her 15-30 minutes a day (IF she could get on the phone.)

The thing that I do think needs to be understood about prison sexuality, and this effects both men and women, is that when they find themselves feeling something for a member of the same sex after living a life that had been heterosexual pre-prison, is that it probably is very confusing for them in most cases. I know in Dee's case it made her question a LOT of things about herself. Being able to support her, let her talk things out, assure her that what she was experiencing wasn't "weird" and was so common that there's a phenomenon and definition attributed to people who engage in homosexual activity in prison but not outside of prison and that it actually does not make one homosexual outside of their "situational sexuality," all kind of served to not feel as weird about it. She told me that me accepting her and showing love even in that situation was a huge influence on her getting through the time and our relationship working....so trust me when I say...she gets it.

Of course it also goes without saying that issues beyond sexuality and sexual orientation make for some good therapy fodder both in and out of prison....

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  #165  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:45 AM
rockchalk1 rockchalk1 is online now
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Not to nitpick, but in case anyone's confused, the player in question is Aaron Hernandez, not Rodriguez. (Don't worry, names get confused and your point was otherwise a really good one, just wanted to make sure people didn't think there was a second Patriot with the name Aaron who went to prison and killed themselves....)

Beyond that.....I will say that a lot of women lose their relationships in there. If not once they get to prison then before. There's apparently a statistic...I don't know if it's a hypothetical someone came up with based on their observation or if it was scientifically researched, but in my own experience there's a lot of truth to it....not counting children (only adults) the visiting room at a mens prison is 80% women and 20% men...and the visiting room at a womens prison is 80% women and 20% men. I never counted, but visually I'd say that it is usually 20-30% men visiting when I've visited, and of those at least half were NOT boyfriends/husbands. By contrast, I've heard that most visitors in a mens' prison are spouses or girlfriends (the remainder are usually mothers or close family.) The way Dee has explained it to me it's pretty much expected that if you're in a relationship when you get arrested that you won't be by the time you're released and that they usually end quickly. A lot of men don't have the same level of loyalty, don't have patience. I could hypothesize as to why all day long but honestly I think it comes down to a lack of patience. They didn't sign up for this, so to speak. Most men that I've come across in there either responded to pen pal ads or were otherwise introduced to their women LO's AFTER incarceration. I do think that "knowing you're getting into a relationship with someone who's incarcerated and being okay with it" is why a lot of these MWI-type relationships work as far as the men are concerned. I don't know proportions, but Dee said most of the women who were in relationships were either 1.) in relationships with women who they were housed with, 2.) in secret relationships with staff members (keep in mind that, at least at some prisons, not everyone on prison staff is a correctional officer. In some cases they are free-world workers contracted to jobs that happen to be on prison grounds and oftentimes there are inmate workers who work along side them. I've been aware of several relationships like this....out of respect to those inmates I have ALWAYS kept my mouth shut.) 3.) With men who either found them on a Pen Pal site or people that they knew pre-prison who they weren't in a relationship with before who decided to seek them out and check up on them who decided to be with them afterward.

By no means is this scientific beyond whatever scientific abilities my mind may have. LOL! I did major in Sociology so I do try to take a scientific approach to things like this sometimes. But hopefully this provides some additional insight with the women. I don't have anywhere near as much insight into the men. I do have a cousin who's spent about 6 years of his life in prison and it's sad because he's a good dude but it has warped his perspectives on life a bit (his reason for going to prison: 18 years old, drank, was staying the night at a friend's house, a buddy frantically begged him to drive him somewhere at 3 in the morning, he stupidly decided to do it, they got in a crash and he watched his buddy die. His BAC? Something like .05, legal for 21+ but a DUI for an 18 year old, so he did time for DUI/Manslaughter.) I had a conversation one time with him and he said "I don't know who does what, that's their business, but I didn't do any of that gay (expletive.)" So I didn't really get much insight about male prisons beyond his immediate experience. Too small a sample size....
Oops, I'm an idiot! Yes, I know better than that and it is Aaron Hernandez. Wow not sure what I was thinking!

Ahh, now the truth comes out as to why you're much more understanding/tolerant of the whole situation, and even why you're able to handle it better than most. Your background in sociology. You understand people and behaviors probably a lot better than most and are even probably more intuitive than most people.

As for why the men don't stick around and the women do, I think you probably said it, when you mentioned the word loyalty. I'm definitely not trying to bash anyone at all, but women do just tend to be more loyal than men. Again, for the same reason they seek the relationships in prison, they need/crave the emotional connection. Men don't need it as much. Women are the nurturers. Also, and this again is not meant to sound sexist, but many men on the outside, need women to take care of them. I don't mean sexually but I mean on a daily basis for their daily needs. There are not too many men who can take care of themselves. So, to some degree they just don't want to be alone or loyal to a woman in prison when that also means they have to take care of themselves, feed themselves, clean up after themselves, shop for themselves, etc. We see it all the time in society. A woman passes away, they were totally devoted to one another, and bam the man has a new girlfriend within a few months. Again, not all men, but I would bet if research were done on this, it would be the case that the majority of men fall into this category.

So for men, it probably becomes a hassle to visit, they can easily meet a woman on the outside. Don't want the bother, and want someone to take care of them, cleaning, cooking, traveling with them, etc.

Sad but probably true.
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  #166  
Old 11-20-2017, 10:48 PM
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Very well said and I think you nailed it when you said you communicate open and honestly. It's not that she is telling you everything, and it's not that you're pushing. But, she is at least communicating, she met your expectations, and that is what matters the most. I have to hand it to you! She should know how lucky she is to have someone like you.



I'm not worried my husband is going to have any kind of affair inside, emotional or physical, but I am worried about the emotional toll the whole thing will have on him. A lot of inmates probably need therapy when they get out, just to deal with what happened to them when they were in! Different from the therapy they got when they were in!!


How long is your husband going to be in? A camp is very different than other prisons. It is not a violent atmosphere, in fact, my husband says he is probably safer inside than we are out here. Everyone is more or less cordial to each other.

The biggest adjustment for my hubby is never being able to be alone in silence and not ever being able to find a place that is comfortableóbed is uncomfortable, tv room chairs are metal chairs, chapel is pews, and library I believe is pews or metal chairs. No cozy place to curl up with a book. The visitation room is plastic chairs that I think are miserable but he says are the most comfortable thing at the camp.

I think most adjust well to their surroundings. Being able to talk on the phone daily and email several times a day really helps. And they are in a dorm so no cells with a regular door.

There are lots of blogs about self-surrendering and Day in the life at a camp. It will help ease the anxiety.
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:21 PM
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... I will say that a lot of women lose their relationships in there. If not once they get to prison then before. There's apparently a statistic...I don't know if it's a hypothetical someone came up with based on their observation or if it was scientifically researched, but in my own experience there's a lot of truth to it....not counting children (only adults) the visiting room at a mens prison is 80% women and 20% men...and the visiting room at a womens prison is 80% women and 20% men. I never counted, but visually I'd say that it is usually 20-30% men visiting when I've visited, and of those at least half were NOT boyfriends/husbands. .
I've watched a lot of women go in and have their husbands or boyfriends disappear over time. They're frequent visitors in the beginning, then they show up less frequently on regular visiting days, then on holidays and special occasions, then they stop showing up. Three or four years seems long enough for most of them to give up if their wives or girlfriends are still down that long. Women generally seem more loyal over time than men, judging by what I've read at PTO and observed.
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  #168  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:31 PM
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I've watched a lot of women go in and have their husbands or boyfriends disappear over time. They're frequent visitors in the beginning, then they show up less frequently on regular visiting days, then on holidays and special occasions, then they stop showing up. Three or four years seems long enough for most of them to give up if their wives or girlfriends are still down that long. Women generally seem more loyal over time than men, judging by what I've read at PTO and observed.
That seems about right. I don't know about you, Wilkes, but around 3 years is when I started feeling a little burn-out on the whole thing. I obviously didn't leave the relationship...that only crossed my mind briefly when she picked up the in-prison drug charge and I didn't really know what was going on yet and lasted...maybe 12 hours before I said "screw it, I'm in this thing, we're getting through this," but it was right around 3 years that I felt some fatigue with the whole thing. In hindsight....I am very happy I didn't give up at that point.

We're kind of drifting off the key topic, of course. So to kind of bring us back...that fatigue has to impact both sides, I'd imagine. I think on the inmate's side, talking to Dee about sort of her thoughts and where she was emotionally, at least for female inmates that sort of emotional fatigue is part of what draws them into relationships (physical or otherwise) with other inmates. That need for emotional support, intimacy, and like there is someone there that they can depend on that they can have in their lives for more than a visit here and there or a 15 minute phone call or to read some words written or printed out on paper. That was something I realized not just about Dee but about women in prison in general very early on when I was trying to learn as much as I could and that's a big part of why I took the approach that I did when it came to her in-prison relationships. Everyone needs love and support. Why should I deny that when I can't give her what she needs on a consistent enough basis? That was my logic.
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:41 PM
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... at least for female inmates that sort of emotional fatigue is part of what draws them into relationships (physical or otherwise) with other inmates. That need for emotional support, intimacy, and like there is someone there that they can depend on that they can have in their lives for more than a visit here and there or a 15 minute phone call or to read some words written or printed out on paper. That was something I realized not just about Dee but about women in prison in general very early on when I was trying to learn as much as I could and that's a big part of why I took the approach that I did when it came to her in-prison relationships. Everyone needs love and support. Why should I deny that when I can't give her what she needs on a consistent enough basis? That was my logic.
And other vital things I can't give her at all. That's how I've learned to accept the issue. You can get upset, feel rejected, make a total mess of your relationship or accept the way things are for her.

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Old 11-25-2017, 03:03 PM
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Let me give a little more perspective about why I decided to stay with her during the drug charge....and this is connected with a female-female relationship she was involved with, so that's the tie-in on this subject.

2014 was a very bad year. That's when she caught the in-prison drug case. Now, I'm still not sure if she was truly innocent or truly guilty, but of course I always fought for her as if she were innocent. But if she were not...
Late in February, one of the girls she had been involved with for a while was found hung in her cell. It has since come out that the scene was staged and she was killed by blunt force trauma to the head (I've seen the post-mortems from the girl's mother, a very wonderful woman who's been left to raise her daughter's two children and had the seemingly impossible task of explaining to the kids that their mom was not going to be coming home and why.....she also has worked hard to seek justice for her daughter's death ever since...) I'll spare you some details, but Dee had been close to her, obviously and her death hit Dee pretty hard. A few days after it happened was when Dee was allegedly caught with drugs. Dee has always maintained that she did not have drugs on her but has admitted to me that she had been using around that time (miraculously she tested negative when they tested her after the incident....whether it had actually been a few days or not I don't know.) She figured at worst she'd get written up because she didn't think they had a chargeable case against her. She was wrong. So when she told me....she didn't even tell me. She called crying and couldn't say, I got a hunch and checked the court website and saw the pending case as well as the date of violation.....I was pissed. I saw red for a minute. Because I felt betrayed. Not by the situation with the girl (which I hadn't connected to this incident mentally yet) but because she said she was done with all of that. Not knowing any details of the situation yet, I didn't connect the dates.

Once I calmed down a little bit I looked at the available information again and realized that the incident happened 3-4 days after the girl had died. (At the time I still assumed it was a suicide. It was another few months before I learned more details about the suicide that made me realize it might not be a suicide, a fact that has since been confirmed by an autopsy report that concluded she was dead when she was hung, a fact CDCR still won't acknowledge btw.) I realized what Dee was going through around that date and thought "no...this is not the time to leave, this is the time to fight."

Some people would have left without question. They wouldn't have acknowledged the entire set of facts. They wouldn't have acknowledged the significance of what was happening in their LO's life at the time something like this happened. (Then there was the inconsistency in the testimony of the two officers, the one who allegedly caught her grabbing drugs out of the bush and claiming she dropped them, the other officer saying that they didn't see her do anything, the discrepencies in details about who was standing where and in what position, then the fact that the move to toss the drugs was done with her right hand several feet away from where they landed while the officer was examining the scene...had she merely "dropped" them with her non-throwing hand they would not have made it into the bush....but I digress.....)

The fact is that, and I don't know if it's different for the men, but with the women there is a sense of family and maybe a more emotional connection. Regardless of what had happened with the other girl as far as them having a relationship before, when it had ended, etc., she still felt an emotional connection and wonders, frequently, if she could have done anything to prevent her death.

I guess the point is, the bonds they make in there, the ones that get sexual of course and even the ones that don't, are significant to them. Repressing that could cause resentment. So I look at it this way. Knowing her, and knowing what I learned through research, I figured my options were to demand she not get involved with others and probably wind up resented and even lied to......or be open to it and not make her time even harder by feeling at-risk of losing what we had as well as probably have her go through her time lying about it and either a.) not caring or b.) feeling constant guilt.

Such is prison boyfriend/husband life, I guess.
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:26 PM
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... The fact is that, and I don't know if it's different for the men, but with the women there is a sense of family and maybe a more emotional connection. Regardless of what had happened with the other girl as far as them having a relationship before, when it had ended, etc., she still felt an emotional connection ...

I guess the point is, the bonds they make in there, the ones that get sexual of course and even the ones that don't, are significant to them. Repressing that could cause resentment. So I look at it this way. Knowing her, and knowing what I learned through research, I figured my options were to demand she not get involved with others and probably wind up resented and even lied to......or be open to it and not make her time even harder by feeling at-risk of losing what we had as well as probably have her go through her time lying about it and either a.) not caring or b.) feeling constant guilt.

Such is prison boyfriend/husband life, I guess.
I agree totally. Relationships they have inside can be as important, valid, gratifying and genuine as relationships with us. Fight it and you both lose. Accept it and you both benefit. My wife acted no different with me while she was with her lover than she did before. I wish she had trusted e enough to confide in me about it while it was going on. I believed her when she told me she loved me the same. Love isn't finite. I knew she was truly mourning her lover after she paroled and depending on me to understand and help her get past it. I'm glad I could. I'm glad I did. I can't give her what she needs. I'm glad she was able to be with someone who could for a while.

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