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  #26  
Old 05-23-2016, 06:42 PM
Ryan1210 Ryan1210 is offline
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My son was in 5 rehabs and not one of them "worked". He just told me the other day that if only he has listened and taken it seriously, he could have avoided what was to come. And why didn't he take it seriously? Because he wasn't ready to give up the drugs. And that's the way it will be for anyone going through rehab. If they want it bad enough, it will work. If they don't, they can attend 50 rehabs and nothing will change. I really hope that your girlfriend wants it bad enough to make it work. Otherwise, both of your lives will be a living hell with continual lies and manipulation or years of prison time.

I might also add that while attending AA/NA meetings in jail is a good sign, there's not a whole lot of freedom to choose much else. It's a great way to fill the time while they're incarcerated, but the true test of their seriousness will be when they're released and whether they choose to attend meetings regularly or not.

Today Carlie went to see the jail doctor about a wisdom tooth infection, the doctor has scheduled a date for her to have it removed on Thursday. While she was with the doctor, Carlie asked about any non-habit forming medications she might take to help her overcome her need of heroin. She was given Vivitrol. I don't know anything about it, but from what I understand it supposedly helps one to stop craving heroin?

I wish you all could see and talk to her. I think you would see she honestly hates the fact she is an addict, she wants to stop using... I honestly believe that. But as far as rehabs pushing Methodone/Soboxone which is just another addictive drug to "cure" another addiction... I honestly think that is total BS, sorry. I have little faith in any of the 4 different rehabs and their "help". Other than meeting and talking to other addicts, all I see they care about is the almighty dollar, not people.
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:22 PM
Huskers Huskers is offline
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You should attend AlaNon meetings (think that's right). It's for family members of addicts. It will help you see how to NOT enable her. I have a couple that are dear friends. He was on prescription Loratabs for many years. One day when he went to get a prescription filled his doctor said rules had changed and he could prescribe any more. My friend turned to heroin. He got hooked immediately and only after he went through every dime of their retirement money, lost his job of 32 years and pawned his truck - a trailer he borrowed from someone did he tell his wife. He decided to get clean - it was hard on him and her. She threw him out of the house - he stayed out for two weeks. He started attending a Bible study group. I just took them out for dinner to celebrate his one year clean. It's a struggle but knowing his marriage of 40+ years was in jeopardy he chose the marriage. Ala-non helped her to not enable. I would try those meetings and see how you CAN help her or at least not enable. Good luck - PRAYERS
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2016, 07:41 PM
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Honey the only way she will ever get straight is herself. Believe me as an X-addict no one could help me but me and I am still struggling everyday not to go back to drugs. Believe me I can go to any doctor and get whatever I want. I don't want to be a drugged out loser, but its hard as hell and the craving is almost there all the time. It took losing everything and ev eryone to get me straight. My parents spent a fortune on rehabs what a joke I had them giving me other shit. You need to get out of this because her problem is you enabling her also.
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:48 PM
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The thing to consider, Ryan, in my view, anyway, is that by providing her with food and a home and financial support "no matter what," you're just prolonging her illness...and hastening her death.

Sometimes when we love someone, we have to recognize that what's best for them may not feel best, or be what we want. I urge you to visit Al-Anon or NA and talk about your situation...and learn about the ways you are enabling the love of your life.

If you love her-I mean really, really love her-you will do whatever it takes to help her get healthy. That may be stepping aside and letting her venture out into the world alone except for the heroin. The scary friends, the dangerous men, the lifestyle of the street-as horrifying as it is to imagine someone we love enduring all that-sometimes that's what it takes to learn it's time to stop. Having a relatively cushy life with a man who always takes you back...that's not helping. That's killing her.

I know you love her with all your heart. But I'd like to challenge you then, because you love her, to have the courage to learn about yourself in this time apart. Get counseling. Go to meetings. Work on yourself so that when she comes out, you're the best person YOU can be...and ready to make the decisions that will be best for both of you.
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  #30  
Old 05-24-2016, 06:09 PM
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The thing to consider, Ryan, in my view, anyway, is that by providing her with food and a home and financial support "no matter what," you're just prolonging her illness...and hastening her death.

Sometimes when we love someone, we have to recognize that what's best for them may not feel best, or be what we want. I urge you to visit Al-Anon or NA and talk about your situation...and learn about the ways you are enabling the love of your life.

If you love her-I mean really, really love her-you will do whatever it takes to help her get healthy. That may be stepping aside and letting her venture out into the world alone except for the heroin. The scary friends, the dangerous men, the lifestyle of the street-as horrifying as it is to imagine someone we love enduring all that-sometimes that's what it takes to learn it's time to stop. Having a relatively cushy life with a man who always takes you back...that's not helping. That's killing her.

I know you love her with all your heart. But I'd like to challenge you then, because you love her, to have the courage to learn about yourself in this time apart. Get counseling. Go to meetings. Work on yourself so that when she comes out, you're the best person YOU can be...and ready to make the decisions that will be best for both of you.
This is perfectly said. Thank you for putting into words what I've been trying to say but wasn't as clear as you've been. I hope Ryan will take your advice to heart. It is excellent.
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  #31  
Old 05-26-2016, 06:43 PM
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The thing to consider, Ryan, in my view, anyway, is that by providing her with food and a home and financial support "no matter what," you're just prolonging her illness...and hastening her death.

Sometimes when we love someone, we have to recognize that what's best for them may not feel best, or be what we want. I urge you to visit Al-Anon or NA and talk about your situation...and learn about the ways you are enabling the love of your life.

If you love her-I mean really, really love her-you will do whatever it takes to help her get healthy. That may be stepping aside and letting her venture out into the world alone except for the heroin. The scary friends, the dangerous men, the lifestyle of the street-as horrifying as it is to imagine someone we love enduring all that-sometimes that's what it takes to learn it's time to stop. Having a relatively cushy life with a man who always takes you back...that's not helping. That's killing her.

I know you love her with all your heart. But I'd like to challenge you then, because you love her, to have the courage to learn about yourself in this time apart. Get counseling. Go to meetings. Work on yourself so that when she comes out, you're the best person YOU can be...and ready to make the decisions that will be best for both of you.
Again, thank you and everyone else who has given me more insight. I've been taking a good long hard look at myself, our relationship, her addiction and other problems such as a 25 year age gap between us. As much as I do love her, I think I need to step out of the relationship.

I feel like that's cruel because she really has no one else. I know it's going to hurt her and myself alike and I can't begin to tell you how much I will miss her in my life but as much as I believe she wants to be clean, I don't think she will be clean.

I just found out she is already eligible for parole and has a hearing in a few weeks only after just over a month in jail. From what she understands she has a really good shot at getting out, which should be good news... but I think it's possibly the worst thing that can happen. I asked her, "If you get out say in a month, will you stay clean?" Her reply, "I doubt it." I can't do it anymore. I can't watch her kill herself with heroin and just sit there helpless to do anything about it. Nothing I say or do is going to make her stop, I know this now.

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm taking the "cowards" way out and believe me it feels like I am, but I have worked to hard and to long to get where I am in life to have it all brought down by her addiction. And judging from her reply, she will be using as soon as possible again...
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  #32  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:08 PM
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It's not cowardly, Ryan. It's self-preservation. When you live with an addict, you can't do anything but watch them go to hell slowly. And while you're watching and doing no good at all, they are bringing chaos and destruction into your life. Often enough, they can get you into serious legal trouble. Always, you would worry about things disappearing, about where they are right now, whether they're dead somewhere. About whether her 'friends' might decide you're a good mark and break in to your home. About whether someone's carrying a weapon. And on and on. And being on watch for the times you know they're going to indulge their addiction...always being on watch.

It's hell. It's useless.
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  #33  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:09 PM
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I don't think this is the cowards way out - you can't help her until she wants to help herself and she's not there yet. So sorry that it has turned out this way. I'll keep you both in my prayers.
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  #34  
Old 05-26-2016, 09:20 PM
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Ryan you definitely are not being a coward. I think you are seeing the light of Carlie's problems and sadly there is no easy cure. You are "realizing" what you are signing up for by choosing a relationship with Carlie. You are already experiencing a small taste of Active addiction and it is pure HELL!
Does Carlie have any idea the relationship is moving in a different direction? I'm sure when you tell her she will plead her case...you'll need to stay strong in your decision.
Yes you are right, it is crazy that Carlie is possibly up for release so soon. The system seems to be just a revolving door. It's too bad that you couldn't make a plea to the system to have her not be released or at least released to a State mandated rehab. Have you researched any resources like halfway houses that maybe available to Carlie when she gets released.
I know you want to help Carlie but only she can make the choice not to use. I applaud you for seeing the good in Carlie hopefully the light will come on in her head and she will seek the life she deserves.
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  #35  
Old 05-26-2016, 09:32 PM
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Ryan, I strongly feel you're doing the right thing. Heroines steals your soul, and it will never ever love you back. You don't know this woman in your life or your soul. It's true that addiction is a disease, and it might be different if she had diabetes or cancer or a different kind of organic disease. But there is still a decision that she's making. Taking back the needle is like cheating on you every day of her life. She can't have both you and the drugs, and she's made her choice. Be at peace with your choice.
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  #36  
Old 05-26-2016, 10:41 PM
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You are not being a coward, Ryan. It takes a lot of courage to walk away from someone you love who is an addict. Many of us have had to do the same thing. I can tell you that it is one of the most difficult things Iíve ever had to do, but watching the self-destruction was even harder. Iím glad that youíve learned enough to know that this isnít the kind of life you want.

Please donít be too hard on yourself. Youíre doing the right thing for you and for Carly. I hope that she will embrace recovery and begin leading a healthy life once sheís released. If she doesnít, it's not because you walked away. Itís because she wonít be ready to make that choice and she is the only one who can do that.
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  #37  
Old 05-26-2016, 11:15 PM
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Ryan, I applaud your decision. What you are doing is the opposite of cowardice in my opinion - good for you (and hopefully, good for Carlie, too).
I wish you all the best and good luck.
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  #38  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:26 AM
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I'd agree with sarianna.
And what the others have told you. NOT the cowards way out.
Not at all.

I have had to just separate myself from my oldest son. Not even sure what he is on, but it does not matter. Whatever it is, makes him as asshole and violent toward me.
I cant and wont sit here and watch it happen. I still love him so so much.
But I cant watch it and cant be around him.
Praying he finally decides he's had enough. I hope to see it one day.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:10 PM
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The thing is, heroin is cowardly. It makes people do and say things that run counter to our values as a society, as a community, and as individuals. It feeds on fear and pain and depression and suffering, growing like a cancer until the user either decides to stop, or that decision is made for them.

You wouldn't treat cancer by deciding to love it out of someone or pretending it didn't exist, or looking the other way as it grew. Why would you treat an addiction that way? Name addiction. Call it out. Stand outside the disease. Live and practice honesty, sanity and peace. Don't get caught up in the drama. Be outside the problem, not a part of it.

Ryan,you're doing the right thing to step back. You're not the cause of her problems, and you're not the solution.

Sorry I rambled, I just get really emotional about this subject.
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  #40  
Old 05-31-2016, 08:31 PM
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I am a recovering heroin addict. I've been clean the better part of a year and a half, and used for almost 4 years.

In my honest opinion, no jail will not help and actually it could make it worse. I went to jail for several months while I was using. I detoxed in jail (pure hell), but there was no help in there and I basically just dreamt of drugs the entire time. The DAY I was released I relapsed. The only thing that helped me was actual treatment.

You can't be forced into getting clean, you can only do it if you want it. And most of the time if youre in jail, you're being forced to be clean. From personal experience, when I said I wanted out of jail, really I wanted to use. Bad. I don't think any amount of jail would have helped unless I got treatment.

Be there for her, and remember addiction is a very serious disease, it needs treatment just like any other disease. Her best shot at recovery will be to get into treatment as soon as possible, but she has to be ready. Maybe a drug replacement therapy would help like suboxone or methadone. Suboxone saved my life, tbh. Kept me from doing drugs while simultaneously rebuilding my life and when I felt I was ready I detoxed from that and have been clean ever since. The important thing is to build healthy relationships, distance yourself from the drug&lifestyle, and put a significant amount of clean time under your belt. Sometimes it cannot be done without help.

Good luck to you both, this road can be extremely challenging, but it can definitely get better! Wish you the best
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:37 PM
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Sorry, guess I should have read the rest of what you posted. Another thing I wanted to say is, addiction is definitely a black hole and its not cowardly at all to step away. You don't have to let it destroy you, too. You have to take care of yourself first absolutely! Anyway like I said wish you the best. Don't feel guilty about your decisions, I don't think anyone would blame you.
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Old 06-04-2016, 05:50 AM
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Again, thank you and everyone else who has given me more insight. I've been taking a good long hard look at myself, our relationship, her addiction and other problems such as a 25 year age gap between us. As much as I do love her, I think I need to step out of the relationship.

I feel like that's cruel because she really has no one else. I know it's going to hurt her and myself alike and I can't begin to tell you how much I will miss her in my life but as much as I believe she wants to be clean, I don't think she will be clean.

I just found out she is already eligible for parole and has a hearing in a few weeks only after just over a month in jail. From what she understands she has a really good shot at getting out, which should be good news... but I think it's possibly the worst thing that can happen. I asked her, "If you get out say in a month, will you stay clean?" Her reply, "I doubt it." I can't do it anymore. I can't watch her kill herself with heroin and just sit there helpless to do anything about it. Nothing I say or do is going to make her stop, I know this now.

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm taking the "cowards" way out and believe me it feels like I am, but I have worked to hard and to long to get where I am in life to have it all brought down by her addiction. And judging from her reply, she will be using as soon as possible again...
@Ryan... NOTHING not even her love for you and you leaving her will ever make her stop using heroin. THAT is the the absolute truth. Nothing will ever make an addict stop until they are ready until something in them flips a switch so to speak and they are finally completely ready to stop. I know this from personal experience as a Heroin Addict of many,many years. I stopped but not because of any outside threats or influences. It is a thing that happens within the addict or it doesn'the ever happen. Some die as an addict.Sorry but you wanted and needed advice from an addict. No one knows that world better than an addict. And Heroin is much different than other opiates. All YOU can do is YOU,just look after you. Live your life cause you could grow very old and still be with a Heroin Addict if you stay.
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:28 PM
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Well... a little update. Today I went to visit Carlie. I had this whole conversation planned where I would tell her I understood about how addiction works, no promises, no guarantee's she would stop using. I was going to tell her I've done all I can to help her, but it ultimately comes down to her will and strength to stop using and maybe there could be a future for us should she decide to be clean or even if she still wanted me if she was... but I didn't.

As soon as I saw her I looked into those beautiful eyes and she smiled and said "I am so thankful to have you in my life and I love you more than you know." I just couldn't. I can't leave her like this. I don't want to, I never want to lose her TBH.

So... maybe I'm weak, powerless to do anything to protect myself against her addiction, but I do believe she loves me and I know I love her, and right now, that's enough for me. If leaving her is what I should do to protect myself, and I think most agree it is... I can't. I won't.
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:03 PM
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My daughter loves me too, but that won't stop the stealing, manipulation, lies and secrets when she's practicing her addiction.

She's asked me a couple of times about coming home for a little while or for just a couple days etc...and my gawd I want to say yes. My heart screams "Yes!!" I want to help her build a new life without heroin....but I just can't let her back in until I know for certain she's clean and will stay clean. Sad truth is, I may never know for certain that she will stay clean, even if she is clean at that moment because heroin is a crafty beast and relapse is always a possibility.

Ryan, I can't tell you what to do when I don't even know how to effectively help my daughter. Its hard to not enable and even harder to know exactly when what you're doing out of love is actually enabling. Make sense?
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:36 PM
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My daughter loves me too, but that won't stop the stealing, manipulation, lies and secrets when she's practicing her addiction.

She's asked me a couple of times about coming home for a little while or for just a couple days etc...and my gawd I want to say yes. My heart screams "Yes!!" I want to help her build a new life without heroin....but I just can't let her back in until I know for certain she's clean and will stay clean. Sad truth is, I may never know for certain that she will stay clean, even if she is clean at that moment because heroin is a crafty beast and relapse is always a possibility.

Ryan, I can't tell you what to do when I don't even know how to effectively help my daughter. Its hard to not enable and even harder to know exactly when what you're doing out of love is actually enabling. Make sense?
Hummm, I think I remember 'Patch'! Hi Patchouli! Hey, I am sorry for your loss in Kentucky last night. Clay (ALI) was a turning point in my life, I was just ten years old. I watched CNN just before I went to bed last night; he was on life-support. I woke-up hearing that he had passed away this morning and I couldn't help but shed a few tears.
Muhammad Ali was truly "The Greatest"! And it all started in a small town, his hometown called: Louisville, Kentucky. Again, Sorry for your loss/our loss around the world.
---------------------------
Your daughter is much like your physical heart. As you know and must feel, there is NO separation between you and her...absolutely none. The both of you are joined by the hip, this my friend is reality... This goes to you to Ryan. Prince dies an accidental death. Fentanyl (opium) is a powerful killer. We see it across the Nation and in every small town. Neither of you may not be able to stop the results of it's damning effects including theft and criminal behavior, but you both (Patch and Ryan) if not all family-members effected by this disease, can get through this with help. PTO is a good place to start, as you both well know.
I am not sorry to say this; both of you have to think of yourselves first. Your Life & your Health depend on it! I am not a physiologist nor a psychologist or doctor, but I do recognize pain. Please be kind to yourselves. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Or as Muhammad Ali once said, "Don't count the days, make the days count".
Meanwhile you are Not alone, PTO is always here.
cac~
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Old 06-05-2016, 07:29 AM
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Ryan, I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an addict waiting to get your next fix (of her).
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:27 PM
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Ryan, I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an addict waiting to get your next fix (of her).
This is why co-dependency is so relevant here. They both need each other but for different reasons and definitely not in healthy ways. Addicts will say or do anything to get their way and we usually buy into it time and time again because we feel sorry for them and/or we donít know any better. Only when we have had enough and learn why we are contributing to the problem will things start to improve. I only hope that Ryan will learn before itís too late so that he wonít have to go through the months and years of heartache that many of us have been through.

Good luck, Ryan.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:07 PM
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Hi Ryan,
You've received a heap of advice. I personally want to say that I am not judging you for your decision to stay with Carlie. All of us here have been where you are at. I still would say proceed with caution and PLEASE stay in touch with us.
My addict was my son, my flesh and blood. Tough love didn't work....IDK
It will always haunt me (and my husband) that maybe I/we were enablers or maybe we were too tough. In the beginning I will say I was a slow learner!!! I so did not realize or understand the GRAVITY of addiction and how progressive it is. This was before our son got into the hard drugs. During his young teenage years there was a red flag or two but he was able to keep a lot of it hidden for a great while.
Once he got his driver's license, turned 18 and bought a car (BMW..his money from a Trust) that is when all hell broke out; it was evident that he had an alcohol problem. He never got caught driving DUI.. he was smart enough to let a friend drive who was less drunk. So they got pulled over and his friend got the Underage/DUI... and our son got under age drinking...probation which he violated. It was then that my husband and I started looking for treatment. We sent him to a Program in Utah called Second Nature....it's like a survival camp that challenges kids in the wilderness. From there he went to a Therapeutic Farm in Washington State ... a few years later our son revealed there was where he used the needle for the very first time. From there we spent years in and out of crisis!!
I know a lot of parents don't realize the gravity of addiction in the beginning. You mentioned in an earlier text that Carlie has been using since she was a young teenager and she is still so young.
When you are caught up in the middle of dealing with the addict behavior it is so hard to see straight at times, it is so stressful and emotional.... I truly believe what works for one addict does not work for another.
Addiction is so complex. Yes I get the just say NO. I SURE WISH IT WAS THAT EASY!! However like Dobbie Elf said not all addicts are able to flip the switch so to speak. God knows I wish it was as easy as flipping a switch.
I will say when our son was clean...he was his "real genuine" self....!!! It was the real him and not the addict. It was wonderful and I will NEVER question his heart or his sincerity. In the end the drugs were stronger than he.
I do believe that using drugs as a teenager and young adult while still developing HAS to have a major affect on their bodies and brains vs. a full grown adult. And add in all that synthetic crap these smoke shops were selling legally was truly CRIMINAL!!!

When our son was 4 years old he had a major hand injury. He underwent multiple surgeries at the time of the accident and a couple more as he became a teenager. I can't help but think those major surgeries where opiates were administered contributed to his addiction. In elementary school he was diagnosed with adhd. I could KICK myself when I think back to those days. The doctor prescribed Rx and told us to give the medication to him during the school week. No medication was administered on the weekend. Years later now I know this is crap and I do believe that this was just one more thing that contributed to our son's addiction. Our son learned to self medicate. He did not know how to live clean from a very early age. He would tell us that when he used, it was the only time he felt normal.
Honestly between the hard drugs, all the rehabs, multiple combinations of anti depressants, sleep aids...... I flipping want to scream!!!!! My son was a mess bless his heart.
I know I'm venting but with this being said I truly believe there is SO much more to addiction and the individual.
And Yes I do believe that the "real" Carlie is sincere when she tells you that she loves you. I pray that she can get a grip on her addiction and keep it at bay.
Praying God's strength for you both!!!
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Last edited by Lordbew/us; 06-05-2016 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:18 PM
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Well... a little update. Today I went to visit Carlie. I had this whole conversation planned where I would tell her I understood about how addiction works, no promises, no guarantee's she would stop using. I was going to tell her I've done all I can to help her, but it ultimately comes down to her will and strength to stop using and maybe there could be a future for us should she decide to be clean or even if she still wanted me if she was... but I didn't.

As soon as I saw her I looked into those beautiful eyes and she smiled and said "I am so thankful to have you in my life and I love you more than you know." I just couldn't. I can't leave her like this. I don't want to, I never want to lose her TBH.

So... maybe I'm weak, powerless to do anything to protect myself against her addiction, but I do believe she loves me and I know I love her, and right now, that's enough for me. If leaving her is what I should do to protect myself, and I think most agree it is... I can't. I won't.
Well then Ryan, when she gets out IF YOU can come up with a place for the two of you to stay together,I suggest either keeping a blow up mattress or just blankets to sleep on ( dope man won't want those things IMO.) Oh,and stock up on paper plates and plastic utensils plus lots of ramen noodles. Maybe use a coffee pot to heat water with ( she is less likely to trade that for dope than a microwave). And go to the thrift store to buy a clean outfit every few days for your clothing (she can't sell the washer/dryer if you don't have one and can't beg you for the laundry money if you do it this way. ) Hey,no worries cause you are IN LOVE!. lol..

Last edited by Dobbie_Elf; 06-06-2016 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:17 PM
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Ryan my hats off to you. You havery a tough battle ahead of you. In a nutshell, it's hard not to sound judgmental when giving advice. I have lived the the past 9 years of my life dealing with the same struggle as yours. Bottom line be prepared for slim to none support. Not to sound drab, but people will be less likely to want to help you due to your being with an addict. Also don't count on her being locked up as time being sober! Drugs are inside and if she's determined to get high she will find her way to the right person. I know you don't want to hear that but it's a sad and true reality. Also ultimatums don't work. And tough love does not work. In some cases they may. You have to be ready for anything in this journey. I lost everything. Even still I love my husband. People will look at you side ways for your decision to keep trying. I stay because if the ultimate fear should occur I'd know that I did all I could for him. She has to want sobriety. Anyone can get clean being away from their addiction. But if the root of the reason they use is not addressed and worked through, as soon as they are back to their stomping grounds they almost always go right back to the habit. They have to hit rock bottom... until then people like you and I are addicts by circumstance with out the benefit of the high.I understand your pain,and frustration. I'd like to tell you that it will get easier, but I can't.People like to tell you to give up to walk away. Until a person has walked a mile in your shoes they will never know the measure of your pain. In my heart,walking away could come with worse consequences I'd never forgive myself for. If you love someone you dont give up on them! I hope that there is joy for you in your journey. Best wishes to you.

Last edited by Patizangel; 06-07-2016 at 03:48 PM.. Reason: Too many typos.
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