The Role That Mental Health Plays In When The Relationship Is Over

[Firebrand]

It’s been almost 10 years since I last took Zoloft to deal with…..I don’t what I was dealing with when I was locked up? I never was diagnosed with anything really serious in terms of depression, anxiety or some type of disorder. Still, I always valued the time I spent working with the University of Texas and Texas Tech University psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and counselors that took the time to be of help to me. I took Zoloft from 1995 to 2003 and then decided it was time to move on one day. I had the benefit of doing another 5 years in prison without any medication to see how I’d fair in that type of environment and….I learned that I could cope without it and make the right decisions without the influence or aid of anything in my system.

Where the mental health community is concerned, I’ve always felt like the real value of psychiatry, psychology, and therapy is being in the company of someone who has the ability to level the playing field that a person stands on in the mental sense. One psychiatrist at the Gurney unit here in Texas would always say to me when I’d get up to leave after our sessions ended “Be real, Firebrand; if you can’t do anything else, be who you really are. Be real.”

The sad truth about some relationships that end with those of us serving time in prison or who’ve gotten out is no one really knows what happened; all you know is that the relationship fell apart and it got to the point to where you couldn’t go on. Sometimes, we say of ourselves “Oh, you know what the problem was. He was your fiancée/husband or she was your fiancée/wife; people don’t get that close and not know what’s wrong in a relationship”, but…..that’s not always true. With those of us who have issues to deal with that resulted in a trip or trips to prison, there are layers upon layers of problems to work through that may in fact hide what is real. Along with that, there is a difference between knowing that something is wrong in a relationship and knowing what the cause of it is. “We broke up because my fiancée has a drug/drinking problem”. “Oh really, why do they drink or use drugs; what’s the problem?” “Uh….I don’t know exactly; I think they were abused at a younger age or something?” “I left my fiancée because they have an anger problem and this thing where they always want to control me and having to know where I’m at. I can’t handle it anymore.” “Oh really, why are they angry all time; what is it they feel is out of control in their life?” “Uh…I don’t know; they never really talk about the past or their feelings that much.”

Many of us who wind up going to prison are masters of masking our feelings and burying them as a defense mechanism to deal with shock, fear, depression, confusion, tension, drama and the future. Some of us begin doing it before we enter prison and that pattern is perpetuated once we start doing our time. In the course of going with the flow in prison, getting in where you fit in, staying out of the way and doing the time instead of the time doing you, we mimic others around us. We take on a prison demeanor that is reflection of who we think we’re supposed to be; the tough guy who isn’t really tough, the hustler who in fact is more of a hustle cluck or the guy that acts like Cool Hand Luke who underneath it all is Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Jackass. Being real in prison is not popular when you get right down to it. Sometimes there are consequences when people in there see you for who you really are. That’s one of the reasons why so many of us can’t cry out in the open when something devastates us; we quietly cry into our pillows at night with the hope that no one will see or hear us. When both my parents died while I was in prison this was something that was especially hard for me and yet, I had to bear that burden. Bear it I did, but not without it doing something to me emotionally that left scars, bitterness, remorse, and guilt. I have no patience with people that like to play with other peoples feelings. I have no tolerance for those relationships that demand high maintenance like I used to. I’m yet another example of someone who was crippled in the emotional sense because of what I endured in prison.

It’s a scary thing to consider, but some of us who enter prison may very well bear the traits of a psychopath or a sociopath and it never really be known or pondered in a relationship. Some know that they’re doing the wrong thing where others are concerned and yet what they do is a means to an end; nothing more. They’re organized, thorough, intelligent and manipulative. Those are potential signs of a psychopath. Sociopaths tend to be more impulsive, disorganized and needy in the outward sense. There’s no telling how many people in prison are just a few degrees to the left or right of being diagnosed with either one of these mental disorders. Sure, there are people the world over that may exhibit these same traits out here and not be a threat to society or have ever broken the law in the legal sense, but those of us who go to prison are a group that is to be taken more seriously when it comes to the possibility of someone being a psychopath or a sociopath. When considering the “why of it” where relationships end, instances where a lack of remorse when hurting a loved ones feelings or committing hurtful acts that were intentional are concerned, how many of those episodes that were carried out, were done so at the hands of someone fitting the profile of one of these two disorders? How many men & women in prison truly are examples of these two disorders and how many people wind up getting hurt in relationships because they don’t know that?

I came to the realization some years back in prison here in Texas that help is possible in becoming a better man while incarcerated, but there is work to be done with regard to overcoming the beast that lives inside of all men. Many of us in prison lack a sense of urgency in addressing that issue, but it’s not for the lack of help on the part of mental health services that are offered. Often times, you see men in prison that want no part of having anything to do with a psychiatrist, psychologist or therapist with the attitude “I’m not crazy” or “that stuff is a crutch for people who are too weak to be a real man or a real woman.” You also see a group that turns to religion and uses it as a smokescreen or dumping ground in which all their problems are laid at the feet of the savior or taken to the throne of God. I for one, read the bible and attend church every Sunday, but I also have enough sense to know that prayer and reading the bible alone are about as far as some of us ever get with regard to being real about some of the problems we have. We hide behind the cross, we hide behind the bible; we don’t honor what is written any more than we display it in the way that we conduct ourselves. We use God as a cop out and a way to ignore the work that is yet to be done in so far as taking the initiative to correct our own behavior.

This is one of the reasons why as a nation, the penal systems of United States tends to be more one of retribution than one of reform. Every time an effort is made to bring about a sense of humanity and compassion to a prison system, it’s just a matter of time before the overall conduct of the prison population as a whole finds a way to rebel and create more problems that get out of hand as the result of reform efforts made. The political philosophy of retribution is a harder path to travel and endure in prison, but one thing is for sure, there will be order and the level of safety tends to be more stable as the result of a “get tough” attitude among prison administrators. As prisoners, we do it to ourselves and history has proven that. When we become involved in relationships and eventually come home, many of us make the lives of our friends & loved ones harder, over all. The time spent inside was wasted when in fact it was an opportune time to better ourselves. You can do a lot of things where people are concerned, but you can’t make them love you or love themselves. You can’t make them care about you or care about themselves, either. That’s something they have to do on their on their own.

What I did or do to put myself in prison is of my own doing just as it is among all who find their way there, but we have no right to hurt others out here who only wish to love and be a part of our lives.

Thoughts from Firebrand

[OnTheMissions]

Thank you for sharing your perspective, experience, and insight. I professionally belong to the field of mental health (I work with children, though), and your post is very much appreciated...

[Prettylady29]

Your post was very insightful, what can we do to help ease the tensions.of our loved ones? What types of things can we say to them to get them to verbally express frustrations, and wht typesof outlets can we suggest to them to help take their minds off the time? And wht types of things should they be doing to better themselves, mentally, and.emotionally? I want counsel my loved one while he does time, and I want to help him change his thought patterns, how can I encourage him in a subtle way without being demanding? I want him to do the decision making

[MsPrettiJackson]

Well said ... Such a pleasure to read and it touched my heart....THANK YOU

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Prettylady29

Your post was very insightful, what can we do to help ease the tensions.of our loved ones? What types of things can we say to them to get them to verbally express frustrations, and wht typesof outlets can we suggest to them to help take their minds off the time? And wht types of things should they be doing to better themselves, mentally, and.emotionally? I want counsel my loved one while he does time, and I want to help him change his thought patterns, how can I encourage him in a subtle way without being demanding? I want him to do the decision making

If you write him and visit him, that within itself means a lot. Beyond that, an old A. A. slogan comes to mind “repetition strengthens & confirms then, faith comes naturally.” My father went to prison in the 1940s here in Texas and he was a great support as well as counselor to me in what I went through. Both he and my mother made it a point to always re-enforce to me how important it was to let go of the past and make the effort to stay in the here & now. Many of us dwell on the past in such a way that it’s almost like a cancer that can eat away at us; it can consume us. If you’re not careful while in prison, it can re-define who you think you are. Our loved ones that come to see us and who write are often times the only people who stand a chance of helping us to see through that. When a conversation or a comment in a letter comes up like “I really blew a good opportunity to do so n so or such n such when I got in trouble” or “I miss so n so or such n such so much” or “If I hadn’t of done so n so or such n such this never would have happened”, it’s important to remind them of the fact that those are matters that took place in the past; they don’t apply to the here and now. For the sake of becoming a better person, you have to stay in the here and now; you can’t do it when you beat yourself up all the time over what’s been lost or the burnt bridges that have come about.

[Prettylady29]

Thank you so much Firebrand, you have given some great advice, I am glad I came across your post.

[hisbabygurl2014]

Thank you for sharing, I always love reading your post. Helps me understand my ex and why does or maybe the way he is. Again thank you

[skellerton]

Like everyone else, people who go to prison have to know that a) they put themselves there, most through a process of bad decisions or actions, and b) they can get themselves out of there (permanently, not as an end date) through a process of consciously changing those decisions and actions.

The system is what it is, and they are gonna be themselves because they have a goal, of which safety trumps everything, and I will second that inmates usually ruin things for each other all the time. But the same things happen out here, and I think that after a while, guys start thinking its' Disneyland out here and that all the pressures will be behind them when that big door clunks shut for the last time! This is especially true of guys down for a long time because the world fades away into the distance. But they need to really marinate in the fact that people are the same, and people at work do this, people at church do this, in fact people in all groups ruin things for others because they are selfish and then law always comes and says "That's it- its over" for everyone! There is no such thing as true justice, just what little we can try to make happen, though like peace, it must begin with me.

There are three things that stand out in my book: forgive other people and yourself, believe with all your heart and soul in the goal you set (and have a backup to re-convince you when you can't see it), and NEVER, EVER feel sorry for yourself. I've seen one or a combination of those three ruin just about every convict and ex-convict I have ever known or worked with. I like the keep it real, but too often I've seen guys and women who really don't know what real is, so they decide selfishly.

I also like the faith bit, but every person who grabs hold of this better look closely, that guy is hanging off a cross- and it don't look too comfortable! He only got there by giving up selfishness and believing.... til his last breath.

Peace be with you Firebrand, you have come a long way by the grace of God and gut wrenching work! Keep going

[4ever love]

Thanks Firebrand. Awesome post. The ones I quoted below have been of great strength:

I learned that I could cope without it and make the right decisions without the influence or aid of anything in my system

“Be real, Firebrand; if you can’t do anything else, be who you really are. Be real.”

"Oh really, why do they drink or use drugs; what’s the problem?”
Sitting quietly at open AA meetings, helps me understand this question. Thank you AA!

When both my parents died while I was in prison this was something that was especially hard for me and yet, I had to bear that burden My condolences to you. Without my parents on earth, I've had to sharpen my tools and toughen my stance. This event may very well, keep you planted and firmly moving forward...

we don’t honor what is written any more than we display it in the way that we conduct ourselves. To live the life, is to walk the life in an ordinary manner yet with God in our hearts.

there will be order and the level of safety tends to be more stable as the result of a “get tough” attitude My house is more stable as a result of truth, being real, my get tough attitude, acceptance of what is, fairness to all, including my children, and most important unconditional love, with boundaries which include "tough love".

Prison has taught me a lot here on the outside and watching my man accomplish so much while incarcerated, is a Godsend. I loved him from the moment our eyes met. I quietly watched him through his trials and tribulations, available, yet from a distance. I watched him explore his life, his way. I never stopped loving him; yet I continued on with my life. I watched him head towards his second bid; staying clear of God's work. I knew I had the means and knowledge to intervene, but didn't. Thank God. I went and visited him right after his sentencing. OMG he stands up, yells "Marry me". Of course, I was excited he still held me in his heart like that and quietly decided I was waiting for him. While he was busy working at his fire camp and telling me all about the fires he was on, I got busy too. I went back to college, prepared my home to become our home. Worked with him as a team to get his State application into Cal-Fire, to get the credits he needed to get out in time for this fire season, and contently waited. His term was the best thing that happened to me also. I wouldn't be where I am today, content and mentally joyous, if it weren't for my man's incarceration.

Once again I so thank you for your awesome and real posts!! Blessings....

[ajh986]

OMG! please share more. I loved the post is shed so much light. Please post more on the psychological behaviors that affect family and loved ones. My boyfriend got out and turned on me completely. You read my post and responded to it. No one can explain his behavior and he only treats me and my family like that and all we did was help him when his own family wouldnt.

[Firebrand]

There’s a lot that could be said about the mindset and tendencies of some one recently released from prison; both good and bad. Ultimately, I think you have to look at what they go through to some degree while they’re away to get a fix on who and what they are as a person when they get out.

There’s a lot of work to be done for the sake of self improvement while incarcerated. The fact that so many prison systems are geared towards a concept of retribution is what makes it hard on men & women with regard to finding the better part of themselves while they’re away. The ones that do find the better part of themselves are the ones that are determined to do so; it’s just that simple.

Many of us don’t leave prison with a sense of determination or having felt as though we’ve achieved any thing; all we know is that we did so many months or years for a crime we committed. We come home as victims of our own beliefs in the negative sense and what we’ve been exposed to among other prisoners and our captors, as well. There’s old saying that “it’s always the ones closest to you that hurt you the most”. In prison, I don’t know that we’re close to anyone as much we are our loved ones out here. Maybe it has to do with the fact that when we first get out of prison and let our guard down, we prove to be a reflection of the animal that was locked up that is yet to rejoin the human race in the aftermath of having gone to prison.

We’ve yet to really find a way to reform anyone over the long haul in the general sense where the prison experience is concerned. Here in Texas, there was a prisoner by the name of David Ruiz that filed a class action lawsuit against the prison system back in the 1970s in which an enormous change resulted. In the aftermath of that, there’s been as much bad said of the whole affair as there has been good.

I don’t know that what I’ve said is really much of an answer to your question about the why of things, but many of us come home worse people than we were before we entered prison. The ones who don’t come home that way are the ones who determined to gain something positive.

[Just Jen]

Your post both discourages me and encourages me, as weird as that sounds. I am concerned about people in general, the underdog in particular, and my man specifically. One of the simplest and yet most difficult things to do is to be "real." I wish I had read your post when you first wrote it; it may have helped me understand something Jeremy wrote last week, where he said that everyone inside just imitates. It has swirled around in my head for days because I just wasn't getting what he was driving at, but it makes much more sense now that I've read what you've written. His goal is to be himself, his authentic self.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Just Jen

Your post both discourages me and encourages me, as weird as that sounds. I am concerned about people in general, the underdog in particular, and my man specifically. One of the simplest and yet most difficult things to do is to be "real." I wish I had read your post when you first wrote it; it may have helped me understand something Jeremy wrote last week, where he said that everyone inside just imitates. It has swirled around in my head for days because I just wasn't getting what he was driving at, but it makes much more sense now that I've read what you've written. His goal is to be himself, his authentic self.

You’re faced with two opposite realities when you go to prison. In the outward sense, everyone is the same; the same clothes, same food, same living quarters, same reality where doing time in the same place is concerned and all that bit. It’s a generic shoe that fits all when you go to prison. You’re hair is cutoff when you first enter the system and most of your personal possessions are removed upon intake. It’s a humbling, if not degrading universal experience designed and intended to remove anything that is unique or authentic that can stand in the way of what is perceived to be correction or corrective behavior. It’s a process that does not attempt to change the way in which a person thinks; it’s a process that changes the way in which a person lives. I’ve often heard in 12 step circles that “you don’t think your way into good sobriety; you act your way into it.” It’s that mode of thinking, but done so under the worst of circumstances and among the toughest of crowds.

There is another reality which tends to be somewhat of a mystery, too, though in the psychological sense. Who you are when you enter prison, who you become during your stay there and what you are left with when it’s time to leave are efforts that are of your own doing. You have a say so in that process and of that reality. Sadly, there are many of us who do nothing more than just bide the time and ape or mimic what we see in others around us. In a sense, I look at prison the same way I do someone that goes to college. You can leave there with a degree and something to work with in terms of knowledge, skill and a plan for the future or you can leave there with nothing at all. Prison is often referred to as the school of hard knocks so……in a way, it is a place of learning unto itself. They also offer scholarships, too, that come in the form of a prison sentence. You can be authentic in prison. I would even go so far as to say that you have to become authentic in prison with the hope of staying that way if you want to leave there never to return.

[egbdf65]

Thank you, Firebrand.

I believe that every human being has the potential to be both victim and predator and I believe there are no victims in relationships...I believe everyone has to look at their own part at some point...I believe we all have the potential to exhibit psychopathy, sociopathyand other personality disorders.

I don't know of many people who have a gun put to their heads to get into or stay in a crazy relation"ship".

Whether it's mental illness or plain old alcoholism or humanism or whatever you want to call it I have diagnosed myself as an alcoholic today with grave emotional and mental disorders (codependency) who has major adult child of dysfunction issues (longterm trauma from emotional manipulation from my poor mother & father who were affected by still others themselves.)

Whether we end up in jails (you) or mental hospitals (me), I believe some people implode more while others explode more...we all feel pain and we're all human beings who deserve a chance. As you say, some get caught, others don't...there are all brands of crimes and as a woman who became psychologically abused by the last person I was with, I found it was quite sociopathic of me to be only really attracted to him after he started abusing me...there was something very wrong about what i was attracted to there...if I give you my power and I'm attracted to you now it's like being attracted to a mirror...maybe I'm no victim here after all.

Just give me the validation I sought for so long and I'll give you a warm meal, clean house and a backrub...make me feel like I'm good enough and I'll be your mother until I get tired of it and start insulting you about what you're not and what I am...very selfish behavior indeed. And if you leave me I won't let you go, I'll send you cards and letters and drive by the barroom you hang out at...I'll be in a fetal position from the pain of re-experiencing my childhood neglect and abandonment...shite...I've done it to myself again and affected others in the process...I can't see the patterns or what's underneath it and will somebody please help me??!! I'm helpless now and you're everything and I'm nothing again.

I live in a world of other human beings and I found I needed a spiritual solution as a Way Out...religion is something that came later that I could make use of but my religion is AA and the church I stand up in and admit my wrongs in is the AA meeting...I found I didn't need to run for office like my shiny political Harvard-educated father to be enough, God bless him, I only had to be myself...another drunk with inaccurate thinking on many days...I depend on my Higher Power and the job God has given me to get by...I've found a lot of peace and it's good.

My life belongs to God today, it isn't even my own...it's been extended through His grace and for that I'm grateful...it's a great way to live.

May you be blessed with as much peace and joy as this fellow sufferer has today.

[Just Jen]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

You’re faced with two opposite realities when you go to prison. In the outward sense, everyone is the same; the same clothes, same food, same living quarters, same reality where doing time in the same place is concerned and all that bit. It’s a generic shoe that fits all when you go to prison. You’re hair is cutoff when you first enter the system and most of your personal possessions are removed upon intake. It’s a humbling, if not degrading universal experience designed and intended to remove anything that is unique or authentic that can stand in the way of what is perceived to be correction or corrective behavior. It’s a process that does not attempt to change the way in which a person thinks; it’s a process that changes the way in which a person lives. I’ve often heard in 12 step circles that “you don’t think your way into good sobriety; you act your way into it.” It’s that mode of thinking, but done so under the worst of circumstances and among the toughest of crowds.

There is another reality which tends to be somewhat of a mystery, too, though in the psychological sense. Who you are when you enter prison, who you become during your stay there and what you are left with when it’s time to leave are efforts that are of your own doing. You have a say so in that process and of that reality. Sadly, there are many of us who do nothing more than just bide the time and ape or mimic what we see in others around us. In a sense, I look at prison the same way I do someone that goes to college. You can leave there with a degree and something to work with in terms of knowledge, skill and a plan for the future or you can leave there with nothing at all. Prison is often referred to as the school of hard knocks so……in a way, it is a place of learning unto itself. They also offer scholarships, too, that come in the form of a prison sentence. You can be authentic in prison. I would even go so far as to say that you have to become authentic in prison with the hope of staying that way if you want to leave there never to return.

Yes, I think so, too. I perceive there are consequences to refusing to just play along and mimic others, namely that there isn't really a place for you to fit in, except for with the few who have also opted out. But even they get moved around and separated. I get the feeling that it is an extremely lonely existence. There is a great deal of pressure, both internal and external, to seek the companionship and protection of the pack.

I'm glad that you are here, since your perspective helps me understand the things he is processing but cannot quite clarify. There is also the reluctance he has to share any of it with me, and instead feels it better to shelter me from his reality. I have long believed that it isn't until after a hardship has passed, that we can fully examine it from a distance and begin the process of coming to terms with it so that we can close an unpleasant chapter. I don't think it's possible to have full insight while one is still in the midst of it. I truly appreciate your sharing your thoughts from this side.

I am going to go off on a tangent a bit, so I apologize in advance. I would be lying if I said I didn't have concerns about his belief that once he steps out of that prison, he can just close the door behind him forever. I could be misunderstanding him, I suppose, but I feel like his expectations are unrealistic and naive. He may have a great deal of disappointment to face when he sees that being released is not the answer to all of his problems. And I know this is posted in the "When the Relationship is over" section, and I am still in the relationship; however, perhaps I am trying to look ahead at things that could be relationship killers in an effort to not be blindsided.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by egbdf65

Thank you, Firebrand.

I believe that every human being has the potential to be both victim and predator and I believe there are no victims in relationships...I believe everyone has to look at their own part at some point...I believe we all have the potential to exhibit psychopathy, sociopathyand other personality disorders.

I don't know of many people who have a gun put to their heads to get into or stay in a crazy relation"ship".

Whether it's mental illness or plain old alcoholism or humanism or whatever you want to call it I have diagnosed myself as an alcoholic today with grave emotional and mental disorders (codependency) who has major adult child of dysfunction issues (longterm trauma from emotional manipulation from my poor mother & father who were affected by still others themselves.)

Whether we end up in jails (you) or mental hospitals (me), I believe some people implode more while others explode more...we all feel pain and we're all human beings who deserve a chance. As you say, some get caught, others don't...there are all brands of crimes and as a woman who became psychologically abused by the last person I was with, I found it was quite sociopathic of me to be only really attracted to him after he started abusing me...there was something very wrong about what i was attracted to there...if I give you my power and I'm attracted to you now it's like being attracted to a mirror...maybe I'm no victim here after all.

Just give me the validation I sought for so long and I'll give you a warm meal, clean house and a backrub...make me feel like I'm good enough and I'll be your mother until I get tired of it and start insulting you about what you're not and what I am...very selfish behavior indeed. And if you leave me I won't let you go, I'll send you cards and letters and drive by the barroom you hang out at...I'll be in a fetal position from the pain of re-experiencing my childhood neglect and abandonment...shite...I've done it to myself again and affected others in the process...I can't see the patterns or what's underneath it and will somebody please help me??!! I'm helpless now and you're everything and I'm nothing again.

I live in a world of other human beings and I found I needed a spiritual solution as a Way Out...religion is something that came later that I could make use of but my religion is AA and the church I stand up in and admit my wrongs in is the AA meeting...I found I didn't need to run for office like my shiny political Harvard-educated father to be enough, God bless him, I only had to be myself...another drunk with inaccurate thinking on many days...I depend on my Higher Power and the job God has given me to get by...I've found a lot of peace and it's good.

My life belongs to God today, it isn't even my own...it's been extended through His grace and for that I'm grateful...it's a great way to live.

May you be blessed with as much peace and joy as this fellow sufferer has today.

Very well said. Thank you

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Just Jen

Yes, I think so, too. I perceive there are consequences to refusing to just play along and mimic others, namely that there isn't really a place for you to fit in, except for with the few who have also opted out. But even they get moved around and separated. I get the feeling that it is an extremely lonely existence. There is a great deal of pressure, both internal and external, to seek the companionship and protection of the pack.

I'm glad that you are here, since your perspective helps me understand the things he is processing but cannot quite clarify. There is also the reluctance he has to share any of it with me, and instead feels it better to shelter me from his reality. I have long believed that it isn't until after a hardship has passed, that we can fully examine it from a distance and begin the process of coming to terms with it so that we can close an unpleasant chapter. I don't think it's possible to have full insight while one is still in the midst of it. I truly appreciate your sharing your thoughts from this side.

I am going to go off on a tangent a bit, so I apologize in advance. I would be lying if I said I didn't have concerns about his belief that once he steps out of that prison, he can just close the door behind him forever. I could be misunderstanding him, I suppose, but I feel like his expectations are unrealistic and naive. He may have a great deal of disappointment to face when he sees that being released is not the answer to all of his problems. And I know this is posted in the "When the Relationship is over" section, and I am still in the relationship; however, perhaps I am trying to look ahead at things that could be relationship killers in an effort to not be blindsided.

As to how much he changes or has changed; only time will tell, but I think you are wise to anticipate something happening in that area. I admire his courage.