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  #1  
Old 01-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Monkey Bear Monkey Bear is offline
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Wink Ex-felons associating with other ex-felons?

Now that I am home and have 8 more months of probation, when I am done, am I allowed to associate with other felons that may be still on probation? Or, are we not allowed to associate with Felons off probation too, for the rest of our lives? At anytime, can our PO give us permission to associate with another felon if they are not family? Hope I have not confused anyone, because I am confused.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:12 AM
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Default contact with other felons

I don't know about Kentucky's stance on this issue, but I know from personal experience that in Michigan they have zero tolerance and depending on the P.O. I saw people get sent back for just talking to each other while waiting to report, I would say this, after spending a third of my life (16 years) and two prefixes I wasn't taking any chances with my freedom and my life.


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Originally Posted by Monkey Bear View Post
Now that I am home and have 8 more months of probation, when I am done, am I allowed to associate with other felons that may be still on probation? Or, are we not allowed to associate with Felons off probation too, for the rest of our lives? At anytime, can our PO give us permission to associate with another felon if they are not family? Hope I have not confused anyone, because I am confused.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:02 PM
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The Feds don't mess around, when they say no contact with ex-felon they mean it and will enforce it. Wishing you lot of new good and wholesome friends, keep your nose clean so to speak and may your life be full of small and large joys. I look forward to the time my beloved son will come home in 2016.

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Old 09-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Fresh Start7 Fresh Start7 is offline
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Question Friends,Relatives and Associates

The Feds can enforce that while you are on SR, but once you are "off paper" they don't keep you on surveillance or anything UNLESS they have a reason to believe that there is criminal activity afoot.


Still, you want to watch with whom you associate with.

My former "best friend" was the FBI's star witness against me. His testimony was bought and paid for.


Good Luck!
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:05 PM
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what about if your associating in a business capacity, say you run a business and one of your clients is an ex felon(and when I say business i mean a legitimate one, nothing shady)
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:41 PM
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what about if your associating in a business capacity, say you run a business and one of your clients is an ex felon(and when I say business i mean a legitimate one, nothing shady)
I guess it depends upon one's PO. Maybe Federal PO has an answer here. I know that my relative opened up a restaurant with someone whom he met in the HWH and his PO was o.k. with it. They realize that you have to make a living, and the situation dictates I would imagine.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:05 AM
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One concern would be that instead of being able to get PO approval for a specific felon(as it sounds like in that case), I would need blanket approval for any contact within the context of business.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:49 AM
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I will provide the most accurate response here based on my years of experience with the Feds.

In general no association with a convicted felon is the standard..... However under certain circumstances a Probation Officer has the authority to allow association in my last stint under Federal Probation I was allowed to not only associated with friends I met in Federal Prison who also got released..... I was also allowed to live with three other felons and work for a convicted felon.

If your PO approves anything outside of the norm.... get it in writing and supply a copy to your attorney to keep on file.


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Old 10-05-2010, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Bear View Post
Now that I am home and have 8 more months of probation, when I am done, am I allowed to associate with other felons that may be still on probation? Or, are we not allowed to associate with Felons off probation too, for the rest of our lives? At anytime, can our PO give us permission to associate with another felon if they are not family? Hope I have not confused anyone, because I am confused.
I would advise you to stay far away from other felons. In fact, that is almost certainly one of the conditions of your probation/supervised release. A violation of any of those conditions could land you in prison.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by N.A.C.P.F. View Post
I would advise you to stay far away from other felons. In fact, that is almost certainly one of the conditions of your probation/supervised release. A violation of any of those conditions could land you in prison.
He asked if exceptions can be made and as I indicated above they very well can be.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:42 PM
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This is an old thread but I know others are still wondering.

You can not associate with any felons while on paper. Once off you can do so BUT if one of your friends is on paper he/she can get violated.

As to employment you have to talk to your PO about it and inform him/her of your contacts. I went to college and was surrounded by ex-cons and my PO was ok with it as long as it wasnt a social thing. Just make sure you inform the PO and get it recorded/documented.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:06 PM
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Default Yeah, they enforce it

I served 10 months in federal prison for associating with felons while on supervised release. This was at the top of my 4-10 months guideline range. I had thought that they would just give me a slap on the wrist if they caught me, since it's a relatively petty violation, but whenever you're getting sentenced for anything, they take into consideration not only the seriousness of the violation or offense, but everything else they know about you that would suggest how much of a danger you pose to the public.

In my case, I had been writing letters and talking on the phone to some federal prisoners I had met during my incarceration. My lawyer argued to the judge that it would make little sense to punish me for associating with prisoners by putting me in prison, where I'd be forced to associate with prisoners. The judge's attitude was that my other behavior (that didn't rise to the level of a violation) was disturbing enough to warrant some time behind bars so that I could get some mental health treatment. (On appeal, we argued that this was a violation of Tapia v. U.S., but by the time the sentence was vacated, I had already served most of my prison time.)
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:35 AM
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Welcome to Prison Talk. SR violations can be a hard lesson to learn, as you already know. I was probably being somewhat paranoid, but I even asked my PO for permission to post on Prison Talk; answer, discussions with family members of prisoners was allowed, but communications with anyone I knew was a felon were not.
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:27 AM
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Welcome to Prison Talk. SR violations can be a hard lesson to learn, as you already know. I was probably being somewhat paranoid, but I even asked my PO for permission to post on Prison Talk; answer, discussions with family members of prisoners was allowed, but communications with anyone I knew was a felon were not.
I served 14 months on my original offense, 22 months on the first violation, and 10 months on the second violation, so I served more than twice as much time on violations as on the original offense.

My first P.O. used to look at my Facebook feed and ask me if any of the people I was friends with on there were felons. I had several hundred FB friends at the time, and it's highly likely that at least some of them were felons, but I answered "No" anyway. I was never busted for that; what got me busted was that a prison S.I.S. officer looked at some of the incoming correspondence to prisoners, realized I was a former prisoner writing to current prisoners, and contacted my P.O. to let him know I was associating with felons. My P.O. then asked him for recordings of any phone calls I'd had with prisoners. I didn't find out about this till the U.S. Marshals were aiming guns at me at 5 AM.

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Old 07-12-2015, 07:24 AM
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I understand how that could happen, "associating" is a common PV. One guy told the judge "but everyone I know is a felon", it didn't help his case though.

My biggest surprise was being ordered to take (and pay for) a polygraph near the end of my SR sentence. Did you ever, even once, violate (all of my restrictions listed one at a time) plus "did you ever lie to your PO?". If I had, but wasn't caught at the time, I would have been caught then. I don't know if that happens regularly, but it did happen to me.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
I understand how that could happen, "associating" is a common PV. One guy told the judge "but everyone I know is a felon", it didn't help his case though.

My biggest surprise was being ordered to take (and pay for) a polygraph near the end of my SR sentence. Did you ever, even once, violate (all of my restrictions listed one at a time) plus "did you ever lie to your PO?". If I had, but wasn't caught at the time, I would have been caught then. I don't know if that happens regularly, but it did happen to me.
We all associate with felons, whether we know it or not. For example, a lot of the people we hire to do blue collar work around our homes are probably felons. It's unavoidable.

It sounds like they were trying to use the polygraph to sucker you into confessing. By the way, I don't like how the federal P.O.'s will make you fill out a form under penalty of perjury, asking you to incriminate yourself if you've broken any rules. I think almost everyone lies to their P.O., and it shouldn't be an offense that could get a person five years in prison. I don't think they enforce it often, though.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:56 AM
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I never lied to my PO and I did five years probation for a pretty serious drug charge. I never had a reason to lie; I never did anything to lie about and I was never asked unreasonable questions.

I also was given permission to be around felons. More than once I took cares packages to guys at the local half way house - guys my husband knew from his prison. I always cleared it with my PO first though. I met up with a few women I met while in too.

The felons I saw though were one time offenders. People determined to get their life back and to stay out of prison and they've all succeeded.
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Old 07-12-2015, 12:11 PM
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Making a false statement to a federal law enforcement agent (or to many other federal employees too) can be charged as a felony crime anyway, 18 USC 1001.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-...47-sec1001.pdf

Just because you are asked to incriminate yourself doesn't require you to do so. Failing a polygraph is not a federal PV, refusing to take one is.

You are your own best advocate, so always be wary, and very careful.
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Old 07-12-2015, 12:25 PM
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Making a false statement to a federal law enforcement agent (or to many other federal employees too) can be charged as a felony crime anyway, 18 USC 1001.

Just because you are asked to incriminate yourself doesn't require you to do so. Failing a polygraph is not a federal PV, refusing to take one is.

You are your own best advocate, so always be wary, and very careful.
Yeah, 18 USC Sec. 1001 was the law I was talking about. They explicitly mention it on the monthly supervision report: "Warning: Any false statements may result in revocation of probation, supervised release, or parole, in addition to 5 years imprisonment, a $250,000 fine, or both. (18 U.S.C. Sec. 1001)"

I think 18 USC Sec. 1001 should be repealed; it's the government's go-to statute whenever they want to prosecute someone they otherwise wouldn't have enough evidence against, or when there's not another statute criminalizing the person's behavior, as in the case of supervised release violations. Supervised release restrictions have gotten so onerous in recent years that it's hard to accomplish much without breaking them.

For example, computer monitoring is becoming an increasingly common supervised release condition. Who wants to give the probation office so much detailed and comprehensive information about their online communications, which can all be put into a file and later quoted as evidence of dangerous ideation? This type of intrusion seems to me unprecedented, since probation has never, to my knowledge, insisted on tapping their probationers' phone conversations or reading all their snail mail and faxes.

A lot of people are (in my opinion, quite rightly) offended by such an intrusion into their privacy, and find it unjustified by their crime, so they get around it by getting an unmonitored computer. I definitely wouldn't favor giving them five years in prison for trying to hide an unmonitored computer from their P.O.
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Old 07-12-2015, 05:42 PM
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I agree that a monitored computer is completely unnecessary. I followed a link that took me to facebook, and got a quick call from my PO, but that was the only mistake I made (or at least heard about anyway). My choice, no computer or monitored, which was just one of the many issues I didn't agree with. Of course what I thought meant absolutely nothing to my government.

I was happier when my SR was over than when I was released from prison, which describes my tedious SR experience, even without any violations.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:38 AM
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The way I understand the rule, and it has been explained to me, is: you cannot associate with a known felon for the purposes of furthering a criminal enterprise. If you want to associate with a known felon for work, socially, etc, you must inform your probation officer and get permission. Unless there is something unusual about the situation, permission should be granted.


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Now that I am home and have 8 more months of probation, when I am done, am I allowed to associate with other felons that may be still on probation? Or, are we not allowed to associate with Felons off probation too, for the rest of our lives? At anytime, can our PO give us permission to associate with another felon if they are not family? Hope I have not confused anyone, because I am confused.
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Old 11-05-2015, 02:36 PM
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So, here's my question. If a felon is on probation and goes to church that has men who have served time, is that a violation? How about if neither of those men are on parole or probation themselves? Doesn't that make them ex-felons? Thanks!
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:54 PM
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Given the vast number of people who are imprisoned in this country, the likelihood is that people being monitored on Supervised Release or Probation will come in contact with ex-felons at work, in their neighborhood, at the gym, at church and many other places. How would someone even know they are in the presence of ex-felons at church? Of course, if they were co-defendants or participate in a rehabilitation support group, they would know, but how else would that type of info be in the public arena at church.

If it were me, and I knew I was interacting with ex-felons, I would tell my PO and get clarity. If they say OK, I would follow up with a short note to PO, to document the understanding. In my time observing LE, I have learned that no one gets hurt following up on what seems like a paranoid thought, because sometimes the feeling or worry ends up to be true.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:26 AM
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The best and safest approach is to be totally transparent with your PO. I get a few Christmas cards from people still inside and note that on my monthly report to document it. I am lucky to have a very good PO and he has no problem with this as long as he is kept informed. He approved another former inmate to communicate with others inside via email, as the fellow worked in the chapel and kept in touch with several inmates. This is probably NOT the norm, and that said, I would not do this without prior approval. As to the day to day risk of associating with other potential felons, it's a matter of doing so knowingly. Again, the best approach is to be totally transparent about it and documenting it if this happens. With an approach of open communication, you will find out quickly where your PO stands on this issue.
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