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  #1  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:14 AM
Rebel.R Rebel.R is offline
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Default Please help, False information by lawyer.

Hello and thank you for your time.
My name is Rebel. I'm from Oklahoma. Age 32.
Never been in trouble before this situation.
I'm currently charged with child neglect. Let me make it clear this is not a case of abuse - children did not receive spankings - had no marks - tummy full - at or above proper weight.
No accusations have been made by the da of the children being beaten or starved. It simply boils down to a dirty house and a over dossing x.
My concern is that my lawyer may not have my best interest at heart.
I have chosen to do release this information through video for a few reasons mostly because I do not know the best way to type out the complete situation. I believe a verbal audio blog will allow for a better explanation. If this is not allowed admin please delete and msg me letting me know.
I do not have to best eye site and being on a mobile device trying to share this info makes it difficult..... Lack about proper word play makes this challenging as well.

So let's get started.....
The first video I address with details - the situation with my lawyer and how I believe he knowingly manipulated me.... I'm currently uploading the video as we speak - as soon as it has posted I will share the link. The link is YouTube and is set to unlisted.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2018, 04:26 AM
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Sarianna Sarianna is offline
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Welcome to Prison Talk.

You can share your story by posting & asking for advice, however, we do not do "verbal audio blogs" in this community and you are not allowed (or able) to post links to your videos on YouTube.

We have some legal experts on here who may offer their opinion but I would not post too many details of your case online. If you seriously think your lawyer might not have your best interest in mind you should seek assistance from another attorney, perhaps to get a second opinion.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:31 PM
Rebel.R Rebel.R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarianna View Post
Welcome to Prison Talk.

You can share your story by posting & asking for advice, however, we do not do "verbal audio blogs" in this community and you are not allowed (or able) to post links to your videos on YouTube.

We have some legal experts on here who may offer their opinion but I would not post too many details of your case online. If you seriously think your lawyer might not have your best interest in mind you should seek assistance from another attorney, perhaps to get a second opinion.




Ok thank you for the info. I will write out a proper post. Thank you sir.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:26 PM
fbopnomore fbopnomore is offline
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Welcome to Prison Talk. I'm sorry for what you are facing and hope you find a reasonable solution.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:10 AM
Ms Sunny Ms Sunny is offline
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But do they have the children’s best interest? That environment sounds pretty dangerous. And you don’t like the plea offer? The “back” story is not the issue now, for you it’s deciding what the future will be. The states charges will not change no matter how big of a picture you draw. So look past rationalization and find what disposition you want to go with, plea or verdict. It’s simple. And don’t put all ya business out there. Not wise.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2018, 12:37 PM
redtop43 redtop43 is offline
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Without knowing any details, I'll note that attorneys are subject to strict ethical requirements. They provide a zealous defense to their client, within the boundaries of the law. Only an extremely unethical lawyer will actually manipulate a client against their best interests.

They do not represent anyone else, just the client - which in this case would include the children involved. If the children's interests are adverse to that of another party, the court should appoint an attorney to represent the children.

The attorney may give you information you don't like. An attorney is required to give a zealous defense, but not to provide unlimited services that (a) aren't paid for or (b) waste the time of the attorney, other attorneys, and the court, if they don't see an actual benefit to the client.

So, again without knowing what you're facing, an attorney may tell you that you fight a charge, but that you could remain incarcerated until trial, that the evidence against you is strong and that even a very favorable outcome would be worse for you than what the DA is offering now, and that even that kind of defense would require resources beyond what the attorney can provide. They will usually say "But if you innocent and want to fight it, we will fight it."

A doctor may tell you that if he doesn't cut your foot off today, that next month he'll have to cut your leg off. It's information you don't want to hear but he's not "manipulating" you - he's giving his professional judgement.

Are there marginally competent attorneys? Of course. Are there incompetent attorneys? Of course. Are there unethical attorneys? Pretty few and far between, because if nothing else they get a bad reputation and are frozen out from clients or get disbarred. Are there attorneys who minimize the importance of what YOU think is really important? Of course, it may not be as important as you think. Are there attorneys who forget things? Sure. Does everyone get the legal representation of O.J. Simpson or Paul Manafort? Hell no.

But these don't mean that your lawyer is giving you false information. Please think 5 or 10 times whether he might be simply saying things you don't care to hear.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2018, 03:36 PM
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Child abuse and neglect -let’s get things clear right from the top - both are very serious. Abuse is spanking, hitting, or otherwise doing something to a child that causes a child harm. Neglect, otoh, is the failure to do something that either causes the child harm, or places the child in jeopardy of harm.

Examples: abuse - breaking a kid's arm. Neglect - failing to take a child with a broken arm to a doctor. Abuse -driving your finger into a child's belly so hard that you lacerate his liver. Neglect -failing to take to take a child vomiting blood to a doctor. Abuse - giving your child a hit of heroine. Neglect - placing your child in the care and custody of somebody shooting up heroine. Abuse - locking your kid in the dog house in below zero weather. Neglect - having a house so dirty that it is a hazard to a child.

I had one case where a woman did not have a phone. This is no big deal as a phone is not a requirement (no matter what a teenager thinks). She also had 8 cats. One cat died in the kitchen one day. 2 weeks later, I’m down at her house talking about what,s going on with her case. Cat is still there, right in the middle of the kitchen. She tells me she will bury it when she’s finished mourning it, but CPS has been by, and they’ve taken her kids. Dirty house - unsafe environment what with a cat body crawling with maggots right in the kitchen.

Another case had kids having to go through the basement to leave the house as the front door did not work. Okay, whatever. Dirty house case - the basement contained 3 dogs, and nobody walked them with any frequency. The result? The kids and adults had to walk across a floor littered with poop to get in and out of the house - sanitation. They got the kids back when they cleaned the house, including the poop, and subjected themselves to random inspections to make sure the poop levels in the house were at acceptable standards.

Had another case where a 17 year old mother had her child taken away and subsequently had her parental rights terminated. Why? The boy was at a healthy weight, developmentally on track, and had a clean diaper when she reported to her PO. But, she popped positive for meth, and when they went to check on the child, she was passed out and the child,s diaper was loaded and had been loaded for much of the day. She didn’t bother doing the things CPS wanted so that she could get the child back and she aged out of juvenile, so they started terminating her parental rights after taking the kid.

Neglect is neglect. You cannot neglect your kids. You can’t leave a 1 year old alone for more than a few minutes, but you can leave a 12 year old alone for an hour or more, depending on the maturity level of the kid. Your house must be a safe place for kids according to their age and development. 5 year olds shouldn’t be making their own meals. 15 year olds, otoh, different story. Nobody cares if you don’t dust, but if your 3 year old is snacking on litter box poop because that’s the only thing to eat in the house, and that litter box hasn’t been changed or cleaned in a month, you are going to have problems.

And you cannot let your kid get into the car of somebody who,s intoxicated, nor can you leave them in the care of somebody intoxicate or whose you reasonably know will be intoxicated during the time they have care and custody of the child.

And an attorney appointed to take care of a criminal matter is not the attorney appointed to deal with CPS. Further, a guardian ad litem appointed for the kids is the attorney speaking for the kids, not you, and won’t give you legal advice. This is referred to as scope of representation.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 01:08 PM
tdj tdj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel.R View Post
Hello and thank you for your time.
My name is Rebel. I'm from Oklahoma. Age 32.
Never been in trouble before this situation.
I'm currently charged with child neglect. Let me make it clear this is not a case of abuse - children did not receive spankings - had no marks - tummy full - at or above proper weight.
No accusations have been made by the da of the children being beaten or starved. It simply boils down to a dirty house and a over dossing x.
My concern is that my lawyer may not have my best interest at heart.
I have chosen to do release this information through video for a few reasons mostly because I do not know the best way to type out the complete situation. I believe a verbal audio blog will allow for a better explanation. If this is not allowed admin please delete and msg me letting me know.
I do not have to best eye site and being on a mobile device trying to share this info makes it difficult..... Lack about proper word play makes this challenging as well.

So let's get started.....
The first video I address with details - the situation with my lawyer and how I believe he knowingly manipulated me.... I'm currently uploading the video as we speak - as soon as it has posted I will share the link. The link is YouTube and is set to unlisted.
So sorry you're going thru this. It's an absolute hell, and ridiculously hypocritical coming from the exact agency that routinely puts children in dangerous foster homes, yet cut themselves so much slack when something goes tragically wrong. The slack they'd never dream of cutting you for doing something much less. I'm not an attorney, so I can't give any real legal advice, but I can give you some words of comfort, and words of wisdom just based on my own personal experience with these swine. YES, I called them swine and refuse to apologize to anyone here so don't even try.

Under Oklahoma law, it is NOT abuse to spank a child. Common sense even says it's not abuse. HOWEVER, don't even try to use that with CPS, because they often feel they don't have to take the law into account when it comes to abducting children. They'll manipulate, twist and downright lie, and do whatever they can to ensure that judge does not send the child home on that first hearing. Also, don't expect your attorney to fight them too much, because they won't. You're case doesn't deal with that, but you mentioned spanking so I thought I'd clear that up. When I went to a parenting class, they had a segment on why you shoudn't spank. Except they didn't show spankings. They showed BEATINGS. HUGE difference.

Believe it or not, you are fortunate, and should rest assured that your case to me, just based on personal experience, and what I've heard so far, does not sound like a hugely serious one. In other words, I've dealt with CPS cases where it was obvious that they had NO intention of ever giving the children back, but were simply going thru the motions. If your case was over a dirty house, then of course clean it. I don't know why you allowed the home to get in that condition in the first place, but if it was because of a valid reason, such as accident, or family crisis, then by all means mention that in court. Or better yet, have your lawyer do it. A very few number of people are strong enough to go toe to toe with CPS and wear them down. I happen to be married to such a person, and he did an absolutely splendid job in single handedly reaming their ass. He PROVED in court that we were not abusers or to blame for what happened, yet it wasn't enough for the judge to let her go home with us that day. CPS has the judges in their back pockets. Family court judges are simply whores for CPS. But I wouldn't suggest that tactic with anyone else. Your best bet would be to clean house, explain the trauma behind why it got so dirty, and how things are better, and do what they ask you to do. When you get them back, and the six month probation period is done, then I'd suggest moving. You'll still be on their "radar", but not quite so much. Otherwise, they'll keep coming around every so often.

Now that you are on their radar, you'll need to focus on keeping the kids safe FROM CPS. In Oklahoma, and other areas, SEVERAL CPS offices have been known to be responsible for child trafficking. You read correct: CPS is trafficking children. Get them back as quick as you can and get out. Also, several on here are going to bristle at this for various reasons, but I will tell you right now that it is an absolute truth that the attorney works for whoever is paying them. Don't let anyone try to convince you any different. Of course, it seems like you've already caught on to that. But unless you can afford a different attorney that YOU pay, then you are probably stuck with who you got. They'll parrot CPS, just in a much nicer way. I say just go with the treatment plan and focus on getting them back, then move away after six months and you are done with the final court hearing.

Last edited by tdj; 08-29-2018 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:20 PM
enigmaingr enigmaingr is offline
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Quote:
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I say just go with the treatment plan and focus on getting them back, then move away after six months and you are done with the final court hearing.

Jumping in to affirm the first part of the above statement. Once an adjudication happens - either by you admitting to allegations made in a petition, or by trial - it is imperative that you follow the treatment plan to remain on track for reunification. And by "follow the treatment plan" I mean to the letter. Anything less can be construed as you not making progress, which could lead to termination. Further, and more importantly, if you don't do what they tell you to do, you cannot demand other services. For example, if the treatment plan says "attend 3 AA meetings a week", and you only attend 1-2, or none at all; you can't very well ask that individual counseling be provided, or argue later that the agency failed to use reasonable efforts toward your success by not authorizing individual counseling.



These cases are very hard to successfully litigate at the trial level (which I don't do), largely because between court dates, and even at the court hearings, it's your word and the case worker's. If you cannot stand before a judge and honestly say (with proof, at times) that you're doing absolutely everything they are asking you to do, anything you say about a case worker, lawyer, etc., will likely be seen by a judge as you deflecting from the issues. To compound the problem, in most jurisdictions, there is a small cadre of professionals that handle these cases, and so that lawyer or case worker you're after likely appears regularly before that judge and is likely well respected, if not at least tolerated, by that judge. Hence, any issues you raise about that person's actions will be against the backdrop that these sort of actions may not be happening in other cases that person is handling, which begs the question from a judge: is it you or them that's the problem?
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