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  #51  
Old 12-26-2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LeBeau View Post
Valerian is an option but keep in mind that Valerian IS the plant from which Valium is derived- it can be addictive and it can be contraindicated by other meds. This is why I left it out of my earlier suggestions- It's among the more problematic natural remedies and your pharmacutical picture is already kinda complex. If you do want to give it a try, I urge you to talk to your doc first and see which of your existing meds are incompatable with Valium. (Also, it smells like a teenage boy's gym socks- after those socks have been buried for a month in a moldy cellar....and some of that "delightful" aroma can return in breath and body odor as the valerian is processed through your body)
LOL!! So true, Valerian root smells like crap, yuck. I don't think the Valerian root and Valium are related but they DO act on the same part of the brain....the GABA receptors.

For aromatherapy for reduction of anxiety, I would recommend lavender oil. I thought aromatherapy was a bunch of crap in the past but I actually think its pretty effective.
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Old 12-26-2011, 04:11 PM
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Jackie, I definitely feel for you. I've been there.....went from painkillers (Oxycontin among others) and eventually moved onto heroin, but I've been clean for almost ten years now so it can be done.

I think you've gotten a lot of great advice....going to meetings, talking to your doctor (though I have little faith in the medical profession when it comes to addiction, honestly), tapering your dose down, alternative remedies. I really don't even have anything to add except to give yourself a break. It is what it is, and things will get better for you as long as you put your all into getting and staying clean. It does get easier, I promise.

Feel free to PM me whenever you need support.
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  #53  
Old 12-26-2011, 04:24 PM
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Most Valium (diazepam) is now synthetically created (I think all U.S. manufactured diazepam has to be synthetic, but I could be wrong) but it was originally derived from the plant and the synthetic compounds are nearly identical, chemically, to the original derivation, just more concentrated and more consistant.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:39 PM
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sometimes drs assure you that meds are not addictive when rlly they are -

excersize is deff helpful for stress and depression as excersising releases endorphines which can help reduce stress/depression and the endorphines interact with the receptors in your brain that reduce your perception of pain.
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:35 PM
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[quote=jackieoneill;6514019]Thanks, guys! This is the first time in a very long time that I have not felt alone.
CCMom; Thanks so much for the info, and is clonodine like Klonopin?

The generic name for Klonopin is clonazepam. Klonopin belongs to the benzo family which includes Valium, Xanax, Ativan and others. If you are referring to clonidine, it is an antihypertensive (i.e., used to treat high blood pressure).

Benzos are commonly used for the temporary relief of anxiety. They are very effective but highly addictive if not used judiciously when prescribed. Stevie Nicks, one of my very favorite singers, was addicted to Klonopin for years but kicked the habit when it got too bad. I think she has written her autobiography. Benzo detox can result in severe health complication if not done in a medical setting. I am glad you are tapering your intake off, but I would highly advise you to get medical help.




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Old 12-26-2011, 11:46 PM
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Pick up a Bible....everytime u get low in spirit ...and ask God for strength. Everything works together for those that trust and believe In God. No pills will give u the peace u seek. God bless u hun. *huggs*
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:42 AM
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Valerian is an option but keep in mind that Valerian IS the plant from which Valium is derived- it can be addictive and it can be contraindicated by other meds. This is why I left it out of my earlier suggestions- It's among the more problematic natural remedies and your pharmacutical picture is already kinda complex. If you do want to give it a try, I urge you to talk to your doc first and see which of your existing meds are incompatable with Valium. (Also, it smells like a teenage boy's gym socks- after those socks have been buried for a month in a moldy cellar....and some of that "delightful" aroma can return in breath and body odor as the valerian is processed through your body)
LOL! A teenager boy's gym socks!
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:55 AM
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Most Valium (diazepam) is now synthetically created (I think all U.S. manufactured diazepam has to be synthetic, but I could be wrong) but it was originally derived from the plant and the synthetic compounds are nearly identical, chemically, to the original derivation, just more concentrated and more consistant.
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Pick up a Bible....everytime u get low in spirit ...and ask God for strength. Everything works together for those that trust and believe In God. No pills will give u the peace u seek. God bless u hun. *huggs*
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:01 AM
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Jackie, I definitely feel for you. I've been there.....went from painkillers (Oxycontin among others) and eventually moved onto heroin, but I've been clean for almost ten years now so it can be done.

I think you've gotten a lot of great advice....going to meetings, talking to your doctor (though I have little faith in the medical profession when it comes to addiction, honestly), tapering your dose down, alternative remedies. I really don't even have anything to add except to give yourself a break. It is what it is, and things will get better for you as long as you put your all into getting and staying clean. It does get easier, I promise.

Feel free to PM me whenever you need support.
Thank you So much! Wow, I am proud of you for beating your addiction to Oxy and such; You have inspired me.. I am amazed at the support I have rec'd from you all here. God must really love me to send so many ministering angels my way.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:33 AM
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I have a Valerian plant in my herb garden. It is easy to grow and will spread if planted in a sunny location. I never smelled the roots. I'll have to do it next season.

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Originally Posted by ohsweetmaryjane View Post
LOL!! So true, Valerian root smells like crap, yuck. I don't think the Valerian root and Valium are related but they DO act on the same part of the brain....the GABA receptors.

For aromatherapy for reduction of anxiety, I would recommend lavender oil. I thought aromatherapy was a bunch of crap in the past but I actually think its pretty effective.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:26 PM
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Jackie, you can do this, just a little at a time.

You will overcome this and get back on track!
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  #62  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:57 PM
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Well, I've never had a family member in jail. Besides myself that is. But I am an expert on taking pills for just about any justification anyone has come up with.

Pain pills feel good, real good. That's why I did ten years in the joint. But you're at risk for two reasons. One, because you sound like you truly need a large amount of pain meds, and you're on the road to endangering your access to even legitimately needed pain meds. I had a friend who got profiled as a doctor shopper and scamming prescriptions out of doctors by any possible means. Never got arrested or anything, but now he's on some list somewhere and can't even get a prescription for codiene for a toothache without being subjected to the Holy Inquisition and signing paperwork promising he will not divert or misuse the medication. And he gets drug tested to make sure it's in him (he didn't sell it), to make sure he is using it at the proper rate, and to see if there are any drugs of abuse in his system. He probably couldn't get anything stronger than Lortab unless he was inpatient and the meds were administered to him. What sucks is that's the agreement he signed to avoid going to jail (doctor-shopping is a crime in my state).

If you keep doing what you're doing, eventually you won't have the meds when you do need them. You will ask your doctor for more. He will put a note and a big red x in your records proclaiming you were showing "drug seeking behavior" and he will give you less.

Then you will start doctor shopping to get multiple prescriptions, will get caught (we all do) and end up on the cut-off-at-the-tit list. Here's a Tylenol with codiene for that bone cancer you're having, and if the pain gets worse you can have another. In four hours.

At that point, if you truly need the medicine for pain that badly, you have only one choice left, to go illegal. Buying it on the street or from friends-of-friends is illegal and can subject you to some jail time (where pain meds are rarely on the menu no matter how bad you hurt). With me it was forging prescriptions, and I was pretty good at it. Made them and the drivers licenses for ID out of whole cloth with a computer and great printer. And that's where five years of my sentence came from.

At the end of this road, no drugs. Not enough, anyway. Even if you truly honestly are in agony. The doctor cares more about his license to practice and DEA persecution than about you and your bone cancer.

The solution? If you explain your anxiety attacks to your doctor he probably would prescribe you a benzodiazepine like Xanax, which is what you need. No other drug class is as effective at removing that worry, that sense of impending dread, the anxiety than benzodiazepines. They truly work and are a godsend when you're in that predicament. Xanax took me from near-homicidal to relaxed and just a little bummed after I got arrested and fired (from my job as a police officer)(!) I ate those things like candy for about three months and it kept me from doing some stupid, probably dangerous things. It also relieved a tremendous amount of suffering. If it's possible to be grateful to a thing, I'm grateful to Xanax.

The kicker is that, as a recreational drug, I don't really care for the stuff. I've got a bottle of klonopin (stronger than Xanax) that I've had for a few months and it's still over half full. I take them only under periods of hard stress or when I get hit with a jag of insomnia that might last for several days. Both of those things, I take the Klonopin and everything's okay, smooth, kosher, even, and I'm ready for bed. Warnings: Benzodiazepines are somewhat less dangerous on the overdose and far more dangerous on withdrawal from addiction. Barbiturate and benzodiazepine withdrawal is agonizing and can kill you. But I still think you need to talk to your doctor about getting some. Opiate detox, WONT kill you, and which I've done with no medical intervention on the floor of a jail cell, twice, is supposed to be a walk in the park compared to coming off a period of heavy use of benzos. But don't let that scare you. If you have to take them heavy for a while, no doctor is just going to cut you off (unless he wants to see you flopping on the ground with seizures and a follow-on lawsuit). He will taper you off them gradually, at a effective and reasonable rate.

Good luck and hope the rest of your days are better than the ones I usually have.

Oh, and by the way, Valium is no more a derivative of Valerian than Rohypnol is a derivative of that tomato plant you have in that back yard. I wish people would study this stuff on places other than chat forums on the internet.

Some other pointers.

Screw the 12 steppers. They will try to make you believe every mood-altering med you take is unnecessary, harmful, and a dangerous sign of your addiction for which you need their help. They're full of shit. First, DONT EVEN THINK about stopping any of your meds so you can pick up your first chip in a meeting. You can NOT "one day at a time" through a narcotics withdrawal, and it's sheer madness as well as insanely cruel to try to persuade someone to do that. I've done it that way twice (not by choice) on the floor of a prison cell, and my thoughts ranged from shivering and warmth to keeping my backside and face from spewing until the pretty prison guard got down the hall. Call your sponser about that, why don't you?

I was in the program for eight years. Legit, clean. And almost to a one narcotic use was frowned upon by everyone for even the most legit uses. I had dental freaking surgery done--cut gums away from bone, drill two inch deep hole in skull, insert titanium root for implant, sew shut--without any sedation or pain medication whatsoever because of this misguided horseshit spread by the twelve steppers. I believed in it, and while I feel like an hero for taking that agony like a man, some of my darkest dreams involve that procedure, and it happened thirty years ago.

The twelve steppers are missing the point with your problem. You have the narcotics. You need them. Not "want" them which most of the 12ers would try to convince you, but need them. You are also having other problems that you are treating with the wrong meds, and that problem needs to be addressed so you can stay out of trouble and get real help for that specific problem.

All the herbs, natural remedies, etc? I've tried them all. Chamomile=garbage. Unless you're a lot more sensitive than I am. Melatonin-works okay for sleep and causes severe depression if taken over a long period of time. Valerian--an effective but very mild sedative that you won't get much out of unless you take half the bottle. Since it smells--strongly--like dirty jockstraps I don't know if you could stomach that much. But your cats will love it, much stronger reaction than to catnip. If you peel open a capsule an sprinkle a little on the floor your cats will make love to that part of the carpet for at least an hour.

The ones that work: Kava Kava. Don't buy the capsules. Buy the unground root and a nice coffee grinder. Grind it up into dust (important unless you want to gag in a few minutes). Put some in bottom of coffee cup, water, mix to solid paste, Take in pieces with spoon, followed by lots of water. Takes like shit. But it works. Honestly.

Also Kratom powder. Supposedly has chemicals that are opiomimics at the receptor level (backed up with legitimate research) and can impart an opiate high. I find it useful for prolonging an opiate event along with real opiates, but taken alone isn't all that great, and doesn't much feel like any opiate I have ever taken.. Taken with Kava, well that's my nighttime brew every night. Don't get it from the "natural" stores or head shops around town unless you want your pants around the ankles when you're walking out. Get it in quantity on line. Links to the places I buy from on request or PM.

If you ever reach the point of pulling back your use of pain meds, and decide (and are able) to quit completely, then by all means go to those meetings. The fellowship of other like minded people trying do the same thing as you is the true strength of twelve step problems. The other stuff--the various steps and philosophies of the program, are BS and can be safely ignored.

Anyway, goodluck in all

Forgot something. Kratom is vile. Some of the nastiest tasting stuff I have ever suffered through. I buy the dry crumbled leaves and render unto dust in my coffee grinder. I usually mix with my Kava powder and "toss and wash" meaning, I dampen it to turn it into a paste and put some in my mouth, then wash it down with some strong tasting. Grapefruit juice is the best.

Kava has a wide margin of safety. You can experiment pretty broadly with dosage without worrying about spewing or anything. Kratom is more powerful and must be handled with more delicately. More powerful by weight, so if you mix do not do 50-50. More like 20-25% kratom is good. Taken alone you do have to be careful because kratom is much more likely to have you puking or taking five minutes to cross your living room by a very convoluted route. For people who have delicate stomachs probably the best idea is to just by empty gel capsules, pulverize the root or leaf you're taking, and encapsulate it. Makes it easy to titrate dosage and you never have to taste the stuff.

Once again, both of those natural remedies work. I'd suggest buying and preparing some, and the next time you feel the urge to try one of your pain meds for non-pain reasons, try the K-K mix first, give it a few minutes, and see what happens. But I still think you should go to your doc about a benzodiazepine solution. Nothing you can buy online or at a store (well, maybe Wild Turkey 101) is going to be as effective as a benzo for anxiety and fear.

Last edited by LeBeau; 01-06-2012 at 11:22 AM.. Reason: post merge for continuity
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:59 PM
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pierreman, I only have one favor to ask of you. Please don't discount any 12 step groups. While they may have not worked for you, they may work for somebody else. Each person must follow their own path. I do thank you for the other useful information you have provided!
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:34 PM
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I suggest you talk to your doctor. He/she can help wean you off the pain pills and possibly prescribe some non-addictive meds for depression and/or anxiety. I admire your honesty and courage.
Good luck!
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:40 PM
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BTW--Klonopin and opiates are contraindicated. There can be severe neurological side effects from taking both simultaneously. And Klonopin stays in the body for quite a while. Please be very careful.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:01 AM
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I never said that the twelve step groups don't work. I said that they do work, but not for the reasons they think. I also said that a great deal of what they bandy about as fact is nothing more than myth and hearsay. I can't tell you how many times I heard "medical" advice lovingly given by people in the program that was not only laughable, but harmful. Like the poster above me suggesting that the OP find a doctor to taper her off of her pain medication. If this person has legit pain--I don't know what her condition is, but let's say it's neuralgia. That's where the nerve itself hurts. Trigemenal neuralgia is so terrible it has driven people to suicide. You think anyone with a chronic pain condition should taper themselves off their pain meds and "get sober?" That's the exact hokey type of well meaning advice that causes harm rather than good. When I was in the program I knew and very much liked a couple of people who died, one of throat cancer, the other of severe emphysema. Both were "old timers" in the program and both tried to hold out against the suffering for a little while and were encouraged to do so by practically every program friend who came to visit. Shame on us. Their suffering was prolonged. When they eventually pretty much had morphine forced on them, everything changed. They passed their final hours in peace and with little pain. One of them even died with a bit of a smile on his face. I was there for that one. Shame, shame on us for encouraging those poor old guys to prolong their suffering. And shame on any of you in the program or outside of it that presumes to give medical advice to someone based on a wholly unscientific, anecdotal, spiritual-advice book with a blue cover.

Speaking of myself, when I was in the program I was absolute hard core about it. I would not even take Benadryl because of that slightly buzzy feeling it gave. Had dental surgery--where a two inch long drill bit was drilled up in to the bone underlying my gums to have an implant put in, refused all sedation and pain medication. Believe me, no amount of local anesthesia will do a thing against pain like that. Didn't for me. But I manned up and grunted my way through it.

Around 1990, I entered a period of the blackest depression I have ever experienced in my life. No triggering event that I know of, nothing going bad in my life at the time, it just descended upon me like a towel dropped over my head. I did all the program stuff, talked, went to meetings, round-the-clock "babysitting" by friends always there to talk if I needed to, went to counseling, I tried all of it. It's one of two times in my life that I truly came close to suicide. "Be strong!" I was told. "Don't turn to drugs! Don't give in!" The drugs they were talking about were _antidepressants_, not cocaine or heroin. When I finally emerged from it _two months_ later, I finally understood that most of that stuff was bullshit, and drugs were invented for a reason. "Never again", I told myself, would I ever suffer needlessly like that. I don't believe I could survive it twice. It was like seeing the man behind the curtain. In the worst, blackest period of my life "the program" had NOTHING to offer, and yet I could have emerged from that horror in a week or two solely by going to see a psychiatrist. Though I stayed clean and sober for a while after that, In my mind the program itself had been revealed for what it was, a cult. A belief system like that Christian sect that refuses blood transfusions for their seriously ill children even when death could result. Several months later I started drinking again, and haven't been to a meeting since.

Fast-forward a few years. I'm lying on the floor of a jail cell, career destroyed, life destroyed, facing a sentence so long it would result in the death of relationships with everyone I knew and loved. My intention: as soon as I got over the shaking and barfing and everything else associated with an opiate withdrawal, I was going to die. By hook or by crook, I was going to make it happen, and I'm a clever guy. A guard came to the door of my cell and gently asked why I was on the floor and not on the bed. I ignored him. I heard him there again several times during the day, though he said nothing. That afternoon, I heard a woman's voice, a prison nurse, asking me if I were okay. I ignored her. The next person who came to my door was the prison psychiatrist. He talked me off the floor and to his office (He'd have had me dragged there if I'd ignored him like the others). The doctor offered me antidepressants. A light bulb went off over my head. Ah-ha! I know the correct answer to this question, this time! He put me on a couple of antidepressants, I went back to the floor of my cell. The next six or eight months were still a living hell, but I survived them. The only reason why was because of the good will of that small group of people, and those two antidepressants the doctor put me on. And in my mind I could still hear my old AA peers "You gave in! You used the drug crutch! You gotta get clean again!" But this time I could smile and silently tell them to shut the fuck up.

Still, leaving the program wasn't a good thing for me to do. With all the hell I've been through since, I realize I got it badly wrong on two points. One, the book itself says that everything in it is a suggestion, not a rule (though many of the obnoxious fanatics in the meetings ignore or have forgotten that). Two, even if the entire big book were purported to have been a revelation to Bill W. given by the Spirit of Mars, that still would not negate the program's most valuable virtue--the simple fact of making your social circle, even your quasi-family, out of people like yourself who are working to get better. Any group of people with a common goal working toward it together is more likely to succeed than one man on his own. Had I just ignored the bullshit I didn't like (as the big book tells you to do) and stuck around anyway, I probably would have stayed clean, not completely destroyed a successful career as a police officer, not gone to prison.

So no, super admin person, I am not completely discounting the program. But I am calling the people who have the hubris to presume to give medical advice to someone with a chronic painful illness harmful fools who should shut up. There's a line from a Graham Greene book: "I never knew a man with better intentions for all the harm he caused." You people know who you are. The shoe fits. Put it on.

Another example of hokey advice. Klonopin IS NOT contraindicated with any opiate/opioid whatsoever. There is ALWAYS a caution about giving two or more drugs concomitantly when both can cause respiratory depression, as the benzodiazepines and opiate/opioids can. But in proper clinical doses, unless this person also decides to sit down and finish a bottle of 100 proof Bulleit Rye in one sitting, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. People with chronic pain are given benzos, including Klonopin, to reduce the anxiety and fear that can often accompany intractable chronic pain. It can reduce the amount of pain med needed, and give relief from the black cloud.

So, to repeat my (non-medical, though I have had considerable medical training) advice to the OP: Go to your doctor and ask about anxiety medication. Quit using your pain meds for non-pain reasons, and understand the eventual consequences if you don't. "And that's all I've got to say about that." (Thanks, Forrest)
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pierreman
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I never said that the twelve step groups don't work. I said that they do work, but not for the reasons they think. I also said that a great deal of what they bandy about as fact is nothing more than myth and hearsay. I can't tell you how many times I heard "medical" advice lovingly given by people in the program that was not only laughable, but harmful. Like the poster above me suggesting that the OP find a doctor to taper her off of her pain medication. If this person has legit pain--I don't know what her condition is, but let's say it's neuralgia. That's where the nerve itself hurts. Trigemenal neuralgia is so terrible it has driven people to suicide. You think anyone with a chronic pain condition should taper themselves off their pain meds and "get sober?" That's the exact hokey type of well meaning advice that causes harm rather than good. When I was in the program I knew and very much liked a couple of people who died, one of throat cancer, the other of severe emphysema. Both were "old timers" in the program and both tried to hold out against the suffering for a little while and were encouraged to do so by practically every program friend who came to visit. Shame on us. Their suffering was prolonged. When they eventually pretty much had morphine forced on them, everything changed. They passed their final hours in peace and with little pain. One of them even died with a bit of a smile on his face. I was there for that one. Shame, shame on us for encouraging those poor old guys to prolong their suffering. And shame on any of you in the program or outside of it that presumes to give medical advice to someone based on a wholly unscientific, anecdotal, spiritual-advice book with a blue cover.

Speaking of myself, when I was in the program I was absolute hard core about it. I would not even take Benadryl because of that slightly buzzy feeling it gave. Had dental surgery--where a two inch long drill bit was drilled up in to the bone underlying my gums to have an implant put in, refused all sedation and pain medication. Believe me, no amount of local anesthesia will do a thing against pain like that. Didn't for me. But I manned up and grunted my way through it.

Around 1990, I entered a period of the blackest depression I have ever experienced in my life. No triggering event that I know of, nothing going bad in my life at the time, it just descended upon me like a towel dropped over my head. I did all the program stuff, talked, went to meetings, round-the-clock "babysitting" by friends always there to talk if I needed to, went to counseling, I tried all of it. It's one of two times in my life that I truly came close to suicide. "Be strong!" I was told. "Don't turn to drugs! Don't give in!" The drugs they were talking about were _antidepressants_, not cocaine or heroin. When I finally emerged from it _two months_ later, I finally understood that most of that stuff was bullshit, and drugs were invented for a reason. "Never again", I told myself, would I ever suffer needlessly like that. I don't believe I could survive it twice. It was like seeing the man behind the curtain. In the worst, blackest period of my life "the program" had NOTHING to offer, and yet I could have emerged from that horror in a week or two solely by going to see a psychiatrist. Though I stayed clean and sober for a while after that, In my mind the program itself had been revealed for what it was, a cult. A belief system like that Christian sect that refuses blood transfusions for their seriously ill children even when death could result. Several months later I started drinking again, and haven't been to a meeting since.

Fast-forward a few years. I'm lying on the floor of a jail cell, career destroyed, life destroyed, facing a sentence so long it would result in the death of relationships with everyone I knew and loved. My intention: as soon as I got over the shaking and barfing and everything else associated with an opiate withdrawal, I was going to die. By hook or by crook, I was going to make it happen, and I'm a clever guy. A guard came to the door of my cell and gently asked why I was on the floor and not on the bed. I ignored him. I heard him there again several times during the day, though he said nothing. That afternoon, I heard a woman's voice, a prison nurse, asking me if I were okay. I ignored her. The next person who came to my door was the prison psychiatrist. He talked me off the floor and to his office (He'd have had me dragged there if I'd ignored him like the others). The doctor offered me antidepressants. A light bulb went off over my head. Ah-ha! I know the correct answer to this question, this time! He put me on a couple of antidepressants, I went back to the floor of my cell. The next six or eight months were still a living hell, but I survived them. The only reason why was because of the good will of that small group of people, and those two antidepressants the doctor put me on. And in my mind I could still hear my old AA peers "You gave in! You used the drug crutch! You gotta get clean again!" But this time I could smile and silently tell them to shut the fuck up.

Still, leaving the program wasn't a good thing for me to do. With all the hell I've been through since, I realize I got it badly wrong on two points. One, the book itself says that everything in it is a suggestion, not a rule (though many of the obnoxious fanatics in the meetings ignore or have forgotten that). Two, even if the entire big book were purported to have been a revelation to Bill W. given by the Spirit of Mars, that still would not negate the program's most valuable virtue--the simple fact of making your social circle, even your quasi-family, out of people like yourself who are working to get better. Any group of people with a common goal working toward it together is more likely to succeed than one man on his own. Had I just ignored the bullshit I didn't like (as the big book tells you to do) and stuck around anyway, I probably would have stayed clean, not completely destroyed a successful career as a police officer, not gone to prison.

So no, super admin person, I am not completely discounting the program. But I am calling the people who have the hubris to presume to give medical advice to someone with a chronic painful illness harmful fools who should shut up. There's a line from a Graham Greene book: "I never knew a man with better intentions for all the harm he caused." You people know who you are. The shoe fits. Put it on.

Another example of hokey advice. Klonopin IS NOT contraindicated with any opiate/opioid whatsoever. There is ALWAYS a caution about giving two or more drugs concomitantly when both can cause respiratory depression, as the benzodiazepines and opiate/opioids can. But in proper clinical doses, unless this person also decides to sit down and finish a bottle of 100 proof Bulleit Rye in one sitting, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. People with chronic pain are given benzos, including Klonopin, to reduce the anxiety and fear that can often accompany intractable chronic pain. It can reduce the amount of pain med needed, and give relief from the black cloud.

So, to repeat my (non-medical, though I have had considerable medical training) advice to the OP: Go to your doctor and ask about anxiety medication. Quit using your pain meds for non-pain reasons, and understand the eventual consequences if you don't. "And that's all I've got to say about that." (Thanks, Forrest)
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:40 PM
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Hi everyone. I just wanted to check in and say I am doing beter than the last time I posted. I am not completely off the pain meds, but I have tapered down from 7 or 8 a day to only 3. There were some really hard days that I spent sick as a dog, barely wanted to move, but I'm doing it! I requested help from my Insurance Co. and am about to see a Psychiatrist about the anxiety. I am going to ask him to put me back on an anti anciety like the zanax I have taken years ago, because it worked for me. I also am going to ask that they change my antidepressant. The tapering is going good. My head is clearer and I have hope that I will be okay. Thank uou all for being here for me. I will be back
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:07 PM
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Hey, the obnoxious narcotics know-it-all is back for yet more scientific pronouncements.

I would recommend that at the same time you ask your doctor about a benzo antianxiety med, you also ask about an antidepressant. I took trazodone for seven years in prison for sleep and the amazing thing is that at the end of the seven years the same dosage was still working for me as at the beginning. I was also on Paxil. That's an SSRI, or Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. It's one of those drugs that works subtly and you don't realize how much it's doing for you until you arbitrarily (like I did) decide to just quit taking it. I literally didn't speak to anyone for a month. Very dark. So the stuff works. Slaughters your sex drive, but if your other problems are big enough, sex is way down the important list. There are some much more advanced and "clean" SSRIs that have come out since I was in prison and you might want to suggest them to your doctor.

A danger you run into is when you mention "anxiety" and "antidepressant" in the same conversation with a doctor he is likely to push a tricyclic on you. Something like amitryptaline or Doxepin, rather than a benzodiazepine. Sure, the tricyclics will alleviate your anxiety, along with thought, motivation, and even musculskelatal coordination. Elavil is another. That class of drugs is just one step short of the major antipsychotic drugs like Thorazine, Stellazine, and Mellaril. All of those drugs are referred to as an "oral lobotomy" and the tricyclics arent much less worse. Besides all that, the tricyclics will make you eat like a ravenous crocodile and get fat as hell. Best thing is to tell your doctor that you've tried Elavil, Amitriptaline, Doxepin, and all that and had severe reactions to it. Hives, nausea, panic attacks, whatever. Avoid that shit like the plague. The impact something like Xanax will have on your life is like a whisper in the ear, compared to the tricyclics, which is like a 22oz framing hammer upside the head.

Doctors don't like to be told what to prescribe, but they can be steered if done subtly enough. Flatly refuse to take a tricyclic. Let him prescribe a benzodiazepine for anxiety episodes, Ativan, Klonopin, Xanax, Librium, whichever one doesn't matter. They all work. Also ask him about SSRI drugs like Paxil and Zoloft. Chances are he will proscribe one of the newer drugs, but that's even better. And those drugs work systemically, meaning you may never have the panic/anxiety attack to begin with.

Like I discovered for myself, drugs were invented for a reason. Use the proper ones, use them properly, and you can spare yourself a great deal of suffering and misfunction. For me it was literally the difference between life and death. For a guy who's hardcore enough to endure having the bones of his skull drilled with no sedation or pain medication, I don't think cutting my own throat is much of a stretch. If I had the desire to do it, if the black cloud was still in possession of me, I would have done it, no doubt. The benzodiazepines helped, but the antidepressants did too (SSRIs). Learn from my fuckups, from my misery. Talk to your doctor about all this stuff. You will only be miserable if you choose to be.

I hope the best for you. Respond here or PM if there is anything--anything at all--I can do for you.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:24 PM
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Had I carefully read the last post the OP made I would have seen that she is already on antidepressants and I could have saved myself the trouble of advising her to do same. All I've got to say for myself is

Uhhh...derrrr-r-r-r

Sometimes obnoxious know-it-alls really are obnoxious.

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Old 01-13-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pierreman View Post
Had I carefully read the last post the OP made I would have seen that she is already on antidepressants and I could have saved myself the trouble of advising her to do same. All I've got to say for myself is

Uhhh...derrrr-r-r-r

Sometimes obnoxious know-it-alls really are obnoxious.

It's called Reading Comprehension 101.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lovemipapi View Post
klonopin is highly addictive!! it is used to treat seizure disorders and panic disorder -is in a group of drugs called benzodiazepines....if you chose to use this just kno that it's highly addictive and i prolly wouldn't suggest this...

however,

clonodine is different - it's a med used for high blood pressure (a low blood pressure medication to lower blood pressure) but also used for tappering off opiates, and also used for anxiety, and adhd, (one of my boys took this yrs ago when he was a kid at nite to help slp and was for his adhd / anxiety disorders) it's also another med you just can not stop taken when you no longer wanna take it you have to ween off if ) so to me once your weaning off a medication it means there's a chemical change in your brain /body therefor in sum forms is addictive, even if they say it's not addictive - some meds are jus less addictive then others!
with that said.... like most any can be addictive to your body, however since they do use it to tapper off opiate's it might be benificial and there again hard to honestly say.

I think if you can tapper down to a nice amount a day and continue to use maybe motrin i wouldn't suggest an additional medication, cuz an additionaly medication is not going to retrain the thinking it's going to help manage the withdraw symptoms yes, but motrin can deff. help w/those yucky additional body aches that you will experiance that not feeling good feeling as well - just obviously not going to help w/the mental end of the w/drwas like the not being happy, the possibly mood swings and so forth.


hope this helps

Clonidine can be VERY FATAL if you just stop completely!!! I take it for blood pressure and when my rx ran out, my dr was out of town. I felt like my head was floating and like I was out of breath. At first I thought it was my asthma so used my machine/inhalers. When those didn't help, I called my Mom, she was out of town but told me to call 911. I didn't want to go to where they would take me so I drove myself to the hospital. I woke up 2 days later in ICU. I don't recall driving/walking into ER etc. My bp was 220/130. My body had crashed from being without clonidine. I stayed in ICU for another few days, my Mom called and told me of talking to me the days before and I STILL don't recall the conversations and this was February 2011! My doctor told me that coming off of it w/o a dr can be very dangerous!! Please be careful!!!
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:54 PM
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I never thought of clonidine as dangerous on the withdrawal, but now that you bring it up.... The drug prevents spikes in blood pressure--dangerous for folks with cardiological problems--by blocking epinephrine receptors. Epinephrine, as in adrenaline. I guess just quitting clonidine would be the equivalent of dumping about a gallon of adrenaline into the bloodstream. That would be dangerous even for someone with no major health problems. Thanks for the heads up on this. Drugs are not just a hobby with me, they're an obsession. And I like to learn as much as I can. That's probably the only reason I haven't killed myself by overdose or mixing pills into some deadly concoction.


I knew a guy in prison who took clonidine in part because he was prone to homicidal rages, and preventing adrenaline spikes went a long way towards preventing unpleasant events. He had mild heart issues as well, but not bad enough for the docs at the prison to give him clonidine for that reason alone. It was coordinated between the prison's GP and the shrink a plan that included some other meds in addition to the clonidine. Seemed to work well for him. He didn't go around in a stupor all the time, and he never killed anybody while I was there. He was locked up for killing his wife in a homicidal rage event. Too bad he didn't see some competent doctors before he killed her, instead of after.
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