Welcome to the Prison Talk Online Community! Take a Minute and Sign Up Today!






Go Back   Prison Talk > U.S. REGIONAL FORUMS > FLORIDA > Florida News & Events
Register Entertainment FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Florida News & Events News, Events & Information relating to the Florida DOC, Criminal Justice, Prison Reform, Activism & Support, etc..

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 09-10-2017, 06:45 PM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 4,153
Thanks: 7,061
Thanked 3,967 Times in 2,127 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Sunny View Post
I believe there is so much chaos in this situation that that person who made that ridiculous statement will be sanctioned somehow. Not necessary to escalate panic, esp when what you claim is not even FEASIBLE!
.I bet he never gets elected again!!! He's an idiot but really I wouldn't give a rats ass what some dick puts on TWITTER!!! Like really thats never going to stop me from seeking help. I think people are taking some jackasses statement with way more then it should be taken. Really think about it he's a jerk police are people just like us and when it come3s down to it they make huge mistakes. Besides they have enough to worry about stopping assholes from looting yes those nice people who destroy every good thing by stealing. So lets not nit pick about law enforcement when we still have jerks out in a hurricane looting!!! Worry about the real problems not the possibilities of problems.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #27  
Old 09-10-2017, 07:24 PM
Friend in Jail Friend in Jail is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 153
Thanks: 208
Thanked 122 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
.I bet he never gets elected again!!! He's an idiot but really I wouldn't give a rats ass what some dick puts on TWITTER!!! Like really thats never going to stop me from seeking help. I think people are taking some jackasses statement with way more then it should be taken. Really think about it he's a jerk police are people just like us and when it come3s down to it they make huge mistakes. Besides they have enough to worry about stopping assholes from looting yes those nice people who destroy every good thing by stealing. So lets not nit pick about law enforcement when we still have jerks out in a hurricane looting!!! Worry about the real problems not the possibilities of problems.
He will be re-elected again and again.....People love him for some reason.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-10-2017, 08:31 PM
safran's Avatar
safran safran is offline
Owned
 

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Azkaban
Posts: 2,875
Thanks: 760
Thanked 3,400 Times in 1,593 Posts
Default

I wasn't surprised, upset or offended by his statement and I'd guess many in the shelters felt some level of safety from it. I've accepted that most of America thinks a criminal is an evil to be avoided at all costs.

I don't think warrants were checked, I don't think anybody was turned away, but I do think many people think if you have a warrant you are a bad, bad person and need to be kept away from good people. Those people liked his statement.

I am not saying that thinking is correct, but I do think it is the norm.

I also don't think it was issued in anyway specifically towards Hispanics. FLA has plenty of Anglo felons - I know many of them.

Last edited by safran; 09-10-2017 at 08:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to safran For This Useful Post:
His_Queen13 (09-10-2017), missingdee (09-10-2017), patchouli (09-12-2017), xolady (09-11-2017)
  #29  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:43 PM
yourself yourself is offline
attorney
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: around
Posts: 11,379
Thanks: 3,985
Thanked 19,673 Times in 7,089 Posts
Default

We need to remember we're talking about Florida. Florida - the state with perhaps athe most draconian sex offender laws there is. Florida, the flattest state there is (seriously, I've bicycled it more than once, it's flat. Great for keeping your mph at a steady fast, but sucks if you're looking for a little hillock).

We're talking A Florida that is about as far removed from Miami and Boca Raton as you get philosophically. Polk county - a county that makes Pasco County look like a bastion of liberalism.

Nobody wants all of the prisoners washed away. Just the sex offenders. They want the regular, couldn't pay his parking ticket got a warrant type showing up, doing time, getting into even more debt with the state.

I'm very disappointed by those saying somebody staying with somebody with an open warrant, even for a violent crime, is stupid. I'm disappointed by those insinuating that those not paying attention to their warrants are doing so because they are stupid or irresponsible or whatever. Do you have any idea how many people I've run into who had no clue that there was an open warrant for them?

You have people in Polk who are dirt poor. You have a huge migrant picker community there as well. Both are peoples who are not stupid. They are peoples who are doing their own thing, getting by as best they can. Many have different priorities. If offered a day in the fields, earning money so their kid can have a $600 epipen or dealing with a warrant that may cost them an adult earner, or that $600 in fines, the logical choice is to tend to the here and now and make sure the kid has his medicine, everybody can eat, the kids can go to school instead of work the fields, and they can go to school with shoes on their feet.

It's a sign of a certain amount of wealth to suggest that somebody is willfully ignoring a warrant when they have a family with needs and this is the prime time to make a living in the fields, or to suggest an adult earner should deprive a family of income to pay off a court case, especially if that court case could further disrupt the family by getting anybody not born in a US hospital deported.

I always assume there's a good reason why people haven't tended to their parking tickets or their court fines or failed to understand that cops showing up for a fight means there could be a warrant out for them. I also assume there's a ton of fear involved with some people - young people who've never been in trouble before and have nothing but Lock Up as their example of what will happen to them if they do prison time.

And the people who stay with them are called family. It's hard to say that a parent should take the kids and stay in a shelter when it's easier to just pretend that hunkering down is the best way to deal with any hurricaine. How easy is it to tell a 10 year old or a 5 year old that the other parent, male or female, cannot come because that parent has a warrant, or worse, is not allowed in because s/he's a sex offender? Everybody's concerned about all the other kids at the shelter, but they shouldn't be concerned, even if they did not know the parent was a sex offender to begin with.

Look, it's a complicated situation. What the sheriff did in Polk is unconscionable and may cost lives. About the only thing it does is give him national "tough on crime" popularity while give warrantless sex offender free families some false sense of safety in a time of incredible stress.

I see a huge lawsuit coming out of this. I feel for those making these decisions.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to yourself For This Useful Post:
Babyx (09-12-2017), GaReform (09-13-2017), LifeTraveler (09-11-2017), miamac (09-10-2017), Minor activist (09-12-2017), nimuay (09-10-2017), patchouli (09-12-2017)
  #30  
Old 09-10-2017, 10:43 PM
safran's Avatar
safran safran is offline
Owned
 

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Azkaban
Posts: 2,875
Thanks: 760
Thanked 3,400 Times in 1,593 Posts
Default

As an exaggerated over example? Somebody could also sue if they claim they were sexually molested by somebody with an outstanding warrant for sexual assault. Or elder abuse. Or intimidation.

Irma is, hopefully, I once in a life time horrid event that nobody could ever fully be prepared for. People complain the sheriff did make such a statement - others would complain if he didn't. Somebody is going to whine, somebody is going to be offended.

The article did say people with warrants could shelter as the jail and that minor warrants could be worked out on the spot although I really don't think this sheriff or any other checked warrants.

It may have been a ploy to get minor warrants taken care of before the storm, but to me - over all - it is minor compared to the storm itself.

Last edited by safran; 09-10-2017 at 11:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to safran For This Useful Post:
xolady (09-11-2017)
  #31  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:22 PM
yourself yourself is offline
attorney
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: around
Posts: 11,379
Thanks: 3,985
Thanked 19,673 Times in 7,089 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by safran View Post
As an exaggerated over example? Somebody could also sue if they claim they were sexually molested by somebody with an outstanding warrant for sexual assault. Or elder abuse. Or intimidation.

Irma is, hopefully, I once in a life time horrid event that nobody could ever fully be prepared for. People complain the sheriff did make such a statement - others would complain if he didn't. Somebody is going to whine, somebody is going to be offended.

The article did say people with warrants could shelter as the jail and that minor warrants could be worked out on the spot although I really don't think this sheriff or any other checked warrants.

It may have been a ploy to get minor warrants taken care of before the storm, but to me - over all - it is minor compared to the storm itself.
They have sued as a result of Katrina in the stadium. I don't know that any of the perpetrators were sex offenders beforehand.

And an open warrant does not prevent somebody already convicted of elder abuse from being right next to an elderly person.

Sheltering at the jail means being arrested on that warrant and hoping that your warrant is minor enough that a judge who chooses to shelter there (what was the name of that judge?) works it out.

There are a lot of counties outside of Polk. There are a lot of counties further North that are far more red leaning in many ways. You didn't hear Pasco or any other county say this. Just this one asshat of a sheriff who put the illusion of safety for some ahead of the actual safety of others.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:39 PM
Friend in Jail Friend in Jail is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 153
Thanks: 208
Thanked 122 Times in 62 Posts
Default

He prides himself on his moral high ground grand standing. 80% of Polk is without power today, but most homes are fine. Hope they get it on soon. It's getting hot. Haven't heard from my friend in county. Hope he's doing ok.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:12 PM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 4,153
Thanks: 7,061
Thanked 3,967 Times in 2,127 Posts
Default

I have lived in polk county and I know just how screwed up LE is. I had afriend who got a DUI and he ended up doing like 2000 hours of community service to pay off his fines. He lost everything yet he didn't haul ass and move somewhere else. Almost everywhere will let you work off your fines. So sorry I don't buy the my great aunt tillie needed meds! They announce Road BLOCKS all the time yet you still see people drinking and driving.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:11 PM
yourself yourself is offline
attorney
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: around
Posts: 11,379
Thanks: 3,985
Thanked 19,673 Times in 7,089 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
I have lived in polk county and I know just how screwed up LE is. I had afriend who got a DUI and he ended up doing like 2000 hours of community service to pay off his fines. He lost everything yet he didn't haul ass and move somewhere else. Almost everywhere will let you work off your fines. So sorry I don't buy the my great aunt tillie needed meds! They announce Road BLOCKS all the time yet you still see people drinking and driving.
Did I say great aunt tillie? No, I said major earners in a household. People who work backbreaking labor all day to afford housing and electricity don't need to be "working off" fines at the convenience of the state in lieu of working or resting from work.

Having done farm work back in the day when you could make enough to cover a large amount of your college tuition detasseling corn, I have an appreciation for that kind of work. Polk is citrus - very much a physically demanding day at work.

Just because your particular experiences don't cover the experiences of others, please don't belittle the experiences of others. Never think that people aren't doing what you're doing and living at least to your standard through lack of effort or caring - you're just going to dig a hole.

Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I have a huge bias against DUIs and vehicular homicides because of DUIs. As a result, I don't go there or even come close to trying to understand the perspective of people caught up in that mess. You can't get me to believe for a hot second that any intoxication isn't voluntary and all the other biases I keep to myself. As a result, I don't represent people in DUI cases. As a result, I won't ever qualify for a vehicular homicide jury. This is one of my big areas of bias. But this doesn't mean that I won't allow people to be properly represented in DUI cases, or publicly dismiss the whole addiction as disease model (outside of this tangential example).

You don't know somebody who couldn't pay fines or pay off fines through work (assuming that warrants are fine only). Good for you. But at least allow that other people might have legitimate concerns other than laziness or just not wanting to deal with it as to why they might not be tending to warrants.

And you know that once a person is arrested and the family does not have the money to make bail, that family slides even further down the economic ladder because that breadwinner is locked up and not making money. Even a few months in jail waiting for a plea can result in financial devastation for a family already dealing with poverty. A family that could afford an apartment on the income of two is evicted on the income of one, even if the arrest and charge is eventually dismissed.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:33 PM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 4,153
Thanks: 7,061
Thanked 3,967 Times in 2,127 Posts
Default

Sorry Yourself my comment was not just for you. I didn't mean to belittle anyone but I am not going to agree that it's wrong to announce a check for warrants. Where I live now they have Trash collection warrants so don't try to tell me just how ignorant law enforcement is, I truly get it. I didn't catch any breaks with having my husbands career history and I don't feel entitled to skirt the law because of it. I can't even tell the prejudice I had to endure over my husband, rather then whine about the injustice I rather just do what I know is right and if I offend someone because I actually believe we have laws in place for a reason then so be it. P.S. I totally agree with you about drunk drivers and I don't feel for them either. But hey I don't feel for the guy who bounces checks either!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:26 AM
Babyx Babyx is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 80
Thanks: 22
Thanked 83 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Florida Sheriff Sued Over Tough-on-Crime Approach to Hurricane Irma

A Virginia man is suing a Florida sheriff over his tough-on-crime approach to Hurricane Irma, claiming in a lawsuit filed Sunday that forcing shelter-seekers to undergo background checks was unconstitutional.

In the suit, filed in Polk County Circuit Court, Andres Borreno argued that Sheriff Grady Judd "misused emergency shelters as unlawful pedestrian checkpoints to conduct suspicionless warrant/criminal background checks on human beings desperate for shelter."

Read entire article below:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hu...e-irma-n800526

Apparently he did, in fact, implement this and is now being sued.

Edited by Admin to conform with PTO's Copyright Rules

Last edited by patchouli; 09-12-2017 at 07:40 PM.. Reason: Copyright Rules
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Babyx For This Useful Post:
Minor activist (09-12-2017), nimuay (09-12-2017), yourself (09-12-2017)
  #37  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:43 AM
Babyx Babyx is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 80
Thanks: 22
Thanked 83 Times in 41 Posts
Default

The major issue is not so much, what he was doing, but when and how.

Yes, warrants for unpaid fines should be enforced, but not as a condition for receiving emergency aid in a major disaster.

Yes. Certain people do not belong in shelters. My husband is one of them, but he would not have been deterred by the sheriff's policy. He is not a SO, nor does he have warrants. The shelter situation would, however, likely trigger a major psychotic episode with mayhem ensuing. How do do I know this? From experience in a similar situation after hurricane Sandy . One of the worst experiences of my life.

An ineffective, mean-spirited policy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Babyx For This Useful Post:
GaReform (09-13-2017), miamac (09-12-2017), nimuay (09-12-2017), yourself (09-12-2017)
  #38  
Old 09-12-2017, 12:12 PM
yourself yourself is offline
attorney
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: around
Posts: 11,379
Thanks: 3,985
Thanked 19,673 Times in 7,089 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
Sorry Yourself my comment was not just for you. I didn't mean to belittle anyone but I am not going to agree that it's wrong to announce a check for warrants. Where I live now they have Trash collection warrants so don't try to tell me just how ignorant law enforcement is, I truly get it. I didn't catch any breaks with having my husbands career history and I don't feel entitled to skirt the law because of it. I can't even tell the prejudice I had to endure over my husband, rather then whine about the injustice I rather just do what I know is right and if I offend someone because I actually believe we have laws in place for a reason then so be it. P.S. I totally agree with you about drunk drivers and I don't feel for them either. But hey I don't feel for the guy who bounces checks either!
Day after day, I see people caught up in a draconian criminal justice system faced with prison because it looks better for the politicians. Is there a rule of law, yes, but it has been perverted over the last few decades, essentially since Reagan took office.

The rule of law back in Salem, MA and the rest of the US back in the 17th century allowed people to be hanged, burned, pressed, and otherwise executed for witchcraft, mostly based on what they referred to as spectral evidence. Totally innocent people were executed as a result, their property seized and distributed not to their heirs, but to community members who could afford to buy their farms. We understand now that the rule of law back then was backwards and most condemned witches have received pardons.

In the '50's, McCarthyism condemned people to prison or shut them completely out of the workforce based on accusations of being communists. It had nothing to do with whether they were in fact communicating with Russia, or whether they were in fact Russian agents - the accusation was usually enough for blacklisting. Being a member of the communist party, the American communist party, could get you a prison sentence. We have now largely realized that was wrong and have restored the good names to those adversely effected by that particular episode in American history.

The rule of law resulted in the internment of Japanese Americans and some German Americans during WWII, and the seizure of property. That property was largely not given back. We now acknowledge that those rules of law were wrong and have formally apologized.

The rule of law allowed Jim Crow. It allowed racial discrimination such that at the start of this country, blacks could be hanged for close to 50 offenses in some states, and whites just a dozen. It decided in the 1980's that addiction was a crime, punishable as a crime. It changed mental health issues from something that could and should be treated at various levels in the county or state, gutted the budget for mental health issues, and made it so that police are encouraged to treat welfare checks of the mentally ill as domestic violence calls.

The rule of law changes all the time, sometimes for the better of society, and sometimes for the worse. It doesn't change because legislators wake up one day and decide that a law should be made or stricken. It changes because people like me whine about justice. It changes because the populace whines about justice.

In our lifetimes, we've seen homosexuality go from a crime to accepted and protected (the same way gender, race, and religion are protected against discrimination). We are currently seeing DREAMERS go from legal residents capable of working and living in the US to threatened. We have seen the ACA/Obamacare become the rule of law and now become threatened because people are whining about it.

We are seeing some states legalize marijuana. My brother has done more than a decade in prison for marijuana. Legalized, assuming it was federal and state (in his state), his convictions would not go away. He'd simply stop getting convicted for the same old thing, and instead get busted only for his alcohol related crimes and cocaine addiction.

The Rule of Law is ever changing. When we see an injustice, we have a right and indeed a duty to call it out, say it's unfair, and vote to change it. We have a right and a duty to make the Rule of Law conform to our current and evolving sense of justice.

Polk County will pay a huge amount in a judgement for that one law suit and that one death. It will also get other politicians to reconsider the ability of sheriffs to make such dangerous pronouncements. I suspect there may come law that suspends warrant and immigration status checks during a time of emergency. Life, after all, is important.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to yourself For This Useful Post:
GaReform (09-13-2017), nimuay (09-12-2017), xolady (09-13-2017)
  #39  
Old 09-12-2017, 04:15 PM
Babyx Babyx is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 80
Thanks: 22
Thanked 83 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
.I bet he never gets elected again!!! He's an idiot but really I wouldn't give a rats ass what some dick puts on TWITTER!!! Like really thats never going to stop me from seeking help. I think people are taking some jackasses statement with way more then it should be taken. Really think about it he's a jerk police are people just like us and when it come3s down to it they make huge mistakes. Besides they have enough to worry about stopping assholes from looting yes those nice people who destroy every good thing by stealing. So lets not nit pick about law enforcement when we still have jerks out in a hurricane looting!!! Worry about the real problems not the possibilities of problems.
Yes. Looting is a real issue I've experienced first hand. And The Sheriff needs to put addressing that ahead of manning checkpoints for warrants and immigration status.

After Sandy, Between my husband's major psychotic episode, arrest and hospitalization, plus the looters, I just about lost it. No, correction, I did lose it. Oh, then I got to deal with FEMA, insurance and recovery.

Shit, just crumpled into a ball. Let them take whatever, couldn't take it.

Last edited by Babyx; 09-12-2017 at 04:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Babyx For This Useful Post:
DisneyFan (09-14-2017), xolady (09-13-2017), yourself (09-12-2017)
  #40  
Old 09-12-2017, 07:47 PM
Minor activist Minor activist is online now
Registered User
 

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WA USA
Posts: 1,251
Thanks: 764
Thanked 1,055 Times in 587 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourself
The Rule of Law is ever changing. When we see an injustice, we have a right and indeed a duty to call it out, say it's unfair, and vote to change it. We have a right and a duty to make the Rule of Law conform to our current and evolving sense of justice.
Words of wisdom. Being a citizen is a job, not a gift.

I encourage Florida members to "act locally" and try to prevent this from happening again.
__________________
I'm collecting Best of PTO posts and quotes in my blog here.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Minor activist For This Useful Post:
Babyx (09-13-2017), GaReform (09-13-2017), yourself (09-12-2017)
  #41  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:44 AM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 4,153
Thanks: 7,061
Thanked 3,967 Times in 2,127 Posts
Default

I do get what you are saying and I just don't think it wrong for him to announce this. Had he tried to say they won't check and then did would be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:11 AM
yourself yourself is offline
attorney
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: around
Posts: 11,379
Thanks: 3,985
Thanked 19,673 Times in 7,089 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xolady View Post
I do get what you are saying and I just don't think it wrong for him to announce this. Had he tried to say they won't check and then did would be wrong.
And I think placing warrants ahead of the safety, health, and welfare of people is a chilling policy. People should be able to get help in a time of emergency.

A person should be able to go to a hospital with a life threatening injury or similar without fear of having status checked.

A person should be able to report domestic violence or other violence without fear of having a status check.

Life always comes ahead of clerical issues. Nobody should have to decide between death and a status check.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to yourself For This Useful Post:
miamac (09-13-2017), xolady (09-13-2017)
  #43  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:34 AM
xolady xolady is offline
Registered User
 

Join Date: May 2014
Location: highlands, florida
Posts: 4,153
Thanks: 7,061
Thanked 3,967 Times in 2,127 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourself View Post
And I think placing warrants ahead of the safety, health, and welfare of people is a chilling policy. People should be able to get help in a time of emergency.

A person should be able to go to a hospital with a life threatening injury or similar without fear of having status checked.

A person should be able to report domestic violence or other violence without fear of having a status check.

Life always comes ahead of clerical issues. Nobody should have to decide between death and a status check.
Your right it should, but it doesn't.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hurricane Irma, updates and info sharing MrsDeeKay Hurricane Irma - September, 2017 50 09-25-2017 01:35 PM
Florida Hurricane Matthew check-in patchouli PTO Lounge 7 10-07-2016 09:45 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 PM.
Copyright © 2001- 2017 Prison Talk Online
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website Design & Custom vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media
Message Board Statistics