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Old 05-04-2019, 04:57 PM
Remorseful900 Remorseful900 is offline
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Default How do SEC fines correlate with any court ordered restitution?

Does anyone know if the civil agency SEC gets involved in your case and you have to pay a fine with them how does that correlate with any court ordered restitution

For the SEC fine does the FLU get involved after supervised release
Or do they only deal with the restitution aspect

And I understand the FLU has many tools to get the restitution money but does the SEC enforcement of the fine have the same tools
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:11 PM
ttexrbomb ttexrbomb is offline
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I thought the SEC was only handling civil matters, not criminal. Was your SEC file a civil fine? Was it given as part of your federal sentence? Are you taking about the court fine?
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:11 AM
Remorseful900 Remorseful900 is offline
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Correct the SEC is civil fines, but since any restitution you have on the criminal case after supervised release the FLU gets involved as that now becomes a civil judgement or payment I was not sure if the FLU and SEC work together

From what I read which to me doesn’t make sense that you can have both a criminal restitution and a civil fine, seems like the government would be punishing you twice even though it is two different government entities
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:33 PM
rockchalk1 rockchalk1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Remorseful900 View Post
Correct the SEC is civil fines, but since any restitution you have on the criminal case after supervised release the FLU gets involved as that now becomes a civil judgement or payment I was not sure if the FLU and SEC work together

From what I read which to me doesnít make sense that you can have both a criminal restitution and a civil fine, seems like the government would be punishing you twice even though it is two different government entities
Yep they can come after you twice as we are learning now! My husband had criminal restitution. Paid it! Had no fine given to him by the judge or otherwise at his sentencing. Gets out of prison ready to move on and finds out thereís some other government civil liability potentially being imposed against him. Redundant and bs but our hands are tied. Havenít asked us for anything and weíre just sitting ducks. He has no assets they know he has nothing so for them to waste their own assets on this is ridiculous as itís not millions of dollars they would be seeking which is bizarre but whatever. He also has liabilities that are already ahead of them should there be a judgment so they will just wind up getting in line. Unfortunately itís not dischargeable in bk so he isnít going to declare but weíre very careful about keeping our $ separate and he owns nothing. Didnít before anyway and certainly wonít now either. There was a separate civil litigation not by the government in his case which has settled thank god but now this is out there! Sigh. Never ends.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:48 PM
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Surprisingly it is sometimes possible to get in line ahead of the federal government. I met one guy who was arrested in a swat attack over drugs. His lawyer and the US Attorney were in a race to the courthouse, to place a lien on his house (his lawyer, so he could afford to hire private counsel, plus have something left over for himself; the AUSA to file their intention to seize the house). The first one there won. Of course only the government can seize property on the basis of an accusation anyway, but in this case at least they were out maneuvered.
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:49 PM
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Surprisingly it is sometimes possible to get in line ahead of the federal government. I met one guy who was arrested in a swat attack over drugs. His lawyer and the US Attorney were in a race to the courthouse, to place a lien on his house (his lawyer, so he could afford to hire private counsel, plus have something left over for himself; the AUSA to file their intention to seize the house). The first one there won. Of course only the government can seize property on the basis of an accusation anyway, but in this case at least they were out maneuvered.
Yep, my point exactly. In my husbandís scenario they can wait in line. He took a loan for his restitution that is well documented from before and during his sentencing hearing in the transcripts. Since his inflows and outflows are monitored by the PO as well as his financial statement at the time of sentencing itís clear he didnít suddenly pay that loan off and the other debt he has accrued since then. Heís about to incur a lot more as he is having cataract surgery tomorrow and in two weeks the other eye. The fee to correct his astigmatisms is not covered under insurance so all of this is a few more thousand going ahead of the gov. Fine by me. There are way bigger fish to fry than him so it boggle my mind that theyíre wasting resources on this but in reality the worst part of it is just not knowing anything or when it is over. We will never know if it ends with no penalty or if itís indefinitely ongoing.
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:08 PM
Remorseful900 Remorseful900 is offline
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So if your off supervised release and let’s say your employed trying to get your life together but still owe money to the government can the FLU or any civil agency take retirement accounts
Let’s say your starting to participate in a company 401k or ira
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:06 PM
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So if your off supervised release and letís say your employed trying to get your life together but still owe money to the government can the FLU or any civil agency take retirement accounts
Letís say your starting to participate in a company 401k or ira
Yes, from what my husband's lawyer told us, which is why he said it is ultra important to pay the restitution before sentencing, the FLU has a much longer reach than the IRS and they can and will take anything they can get their hands on. I know someone that was with my husband, had a "plan" to pay a certain amount of restitution before the guy was in prison, and then more when he was out. Well, the minute he went away, the FLU decided to just go take the rest of his retirement accounts. They can do that. A civil agency can't do so as easily. They can garnish your wages, etc. and distributions to the 401k when you retire, etc. but they do not have as long a reach. So with my husband now, there is no FLU, so if he has a civil fine, his few assets are all protected from a big grab, and they can't take any of his retirement money. However, his paychecks and any distributions from his retirement funds are not completely immune from creditors and just like in bankruptcy, a % could be garnished..but again, they can still have to wait in line if a certain % is already being paid to other creditors.

A court may also rule in your case that you can't stash $ in a retirement or 401k. Again, it's not completely protected because eventually when you withdraw or die, they will have a right to that $ if you haven't paid your debt.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:33 PM
bellisq bellisq is offline
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I think you need a lawyer who was a former Assistant US attorney in the criminal division and who also worked for the SEC. If that is impossible, then a firm that has lawyers with both jobs in their history. I have found there is little cross over, but you have some possibility of relief with the right people. But beware of those who haven't truly crossed over to the defense side, make sure they can fight the prosecution. Have seen some very passive lawyers in the money realm.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:18 PM
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If you are still employed, some retirement accounts have additional protection against attachment. The first thing my presentence report PO wanted to know about was the balance in my 401 K, since I was retired and could access it. Unvested, or partially vested pensions held by employers can not be attached.
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