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  #26  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:01 PM
rockchalk1 rockchalk1 is offline
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Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
Because they can. SR is all about control anyway. I always put "unknown" for questions about my wife's bank accounts because I didn't.

Also be careful about having him use your cards to avoid reporting large purchases. All it would take is his signature, or photo on the "surveillance video". Finding ways to go around SR requirements is never a good idea anyway.
He's not going to use my cards to make large purchases. I should have clarified. He isn't going to be making any purchase greater than $500. When I said my cards, I meant that I would just make the purchase instead of him doing it. I can't think of anything he would need to charge greater than $500 anyway over that period of time. I don't think he has any credit card that is in his name only and he's not going anywhere without me that he would need to spend that much. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for something sinister. It would only be if I wasn't home and he had to pay for some repair or something like that in the house.

We did discuss the question about assets the spouse has that he may benefit from or whatever the question is and I think we are going to ask our lawyer, but agree that the easiest course of action seems to just be to say "I don't know" as that is then an answer he knows to be 100% accurate.

I have to just remember he only has to do this 6 time and he will not have to turn over any tax return or other documents either so it's a lot less time consuming than what we had to get together for the PSR. if we have to get docs together, not a big deal especially I've gotten rid of a lot of accounts to make things more efficient. I was spending too much time paying bills each month!
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  #27  
Old 01-21-2019, 07:27 AM
fentastic0076 fentastic0076 is offline
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He's not going to use my cards to make large purchases. I should have clarified. He isn't going to be making any purchase greater than $500. When I said my cards, I meant that I would just make the purchase instead of him doing it. I can't think of anything he would need to charge greater than $500 anyway over that period of time. I don't think he has any credit card that is in his name only and he's not going anywhere without me that he would need to spend that much. And if he did it sure wouldn't be for something sinister. It would only be if I wasn't home and he had to pay for some repair or something like that in the house.

We did discuss the question about assets the spouse has that he may benefit from or whatever the question is and I think we are going to ask our lawyer, but agree that the easiest course of action seems to just be to say "I don't know" as that is then an answer he knows to be 100% accurate.

I have to just remember he only has to do this 6 time and he will not have to turn over any tax return or other documents either so it's a lot less time consuming than what we had to get together for the PSR. if we have to get docs together, not a big deal especially I've gotten rid of a lot of accounts to make things more efficient. I was spending too much time paying bills each month!
It seems to me that you've done a lot of research and are very, very sure about what his HC/SR is going to "look like" /Entail. I don't want to sound like the evil naysayer, but I would caution you on your optimism. My LO is getting out less than week from when your husband is getting out, if there is one thing I've realized over this time, it's that nothing is what it appears to be, and when I think I know the ins and outs they surprise me.

Like your husband, my fiance has no restitution, had a stellar legal record prior to offense, etc, etc, etc. However, they don't care. I don't mean to say that to be rude, it's just that the logic you're using to work your way through the why's or what's isn't the logic they're using. Remember that our LO's are the exception not the standard, and so for liability and safety sake they most likely will get treated like the Norm in their specific risk assessment.

I know that there is a good chance my LO will be released to HC once she completes orientation and they perform a home visit. However, my mental expectation is that she will spend from February 5 to April 17 in the HWH.
The rules of travel are pretty set in stone as well I believe, and the permission from the district they are travelling to is something that has to be done, and I'm almost 100% sure that's the case with anybody on Fed SR.

I don't know, I obviously hope that ya'll have smooth sailing, and for the best case scenario. I would prepare for the worst, and have that plan of action in place, and if it's better then you win. I'd hate to see it work completely opposite of the way you are planning, and have to change everything you've prepared for.,
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:13 AM
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It seems to me that you've done a lot of research and are very, very sure about what his HC/SR is going to "look like" /Entail. I don't want to sound like the evil naysayer, but I would caution you on your optimism. My LO is getting out less than week from when your husband is getting out, if there is one thing I've realized over this time, it's that nothing is what it appears to be, and when I think I know the ins and outs they surprise me.

Like your husband, my fiance has no restitution, had a stellar legal record prior to offense, etc, etc, etc. However, they don't care. I don't mean to say that to be rude, it's just that the logic you're using to work your way through the why's or what's isn't the logic they're using. Remember that our LO's are the exception not the standard, and so for liability and safety sake they most likely will get treated like the Norm in their specific risk assessment.

I know that there is a good chance my LO will be released to HC once she completes orientation and they perform a home visit. However, my mental expectation is that she will spend from February 5 to April 17 in the HWH.
The rules of travel are pretty set in stone as well I believe, and the permission from the district they are travelling to is something that has to be done, and I'm almost 100% sure that's the case with anybody on Fed SR.

I don't know, I obviously hope that ya'll have smooth sailing, and for the best case scenario. I would prepare for the worst, and have that plan of action in place, and if it's better then you win. I'd hate to see it work completely opposite of the way you are planning, and have to change everything you've prepared for.,
Yes, thank you. We always do prepare for the worst (ie he should be walking out of the prison today due to the good time credit, but Congress messed up the final language when it was passed, so that won't go into effect prior to the 210 days from the bill being signed), so life goes on.

Most of what we have learned is coming from our lawyer and other people we know who are currently on SR in our area with similar or worse circumstances. If anything, it's more of just a nuisance, but no one that he knows that is on SR in Chicago, has had to tell a PO in another location when they are traveling to that location. Maybe it's different depending on the class level or whatever, or maybe the parole office does it for them, but if we have to do it, it's fortunately just a simple contact. The guy told me we can go to the US Virgin Islands. Do they even have a parole office there to contact in that case? Hah, doubt it!

We are expecting mine who is approved for direct home confinement, will not be going to HC because as our attorney has learned, the HWH said they don't care that the BOP has approved him for direct HC, that they have the final say and it's their discretion and upon talking to other people, we have learned that they are keeping people a lot longer than necessary, especially certain types of felons. Since we have an end date, we just accept it for what it is. Max is 53 days and if he's there 53 days, so be it. He'll at least have access to a car, not have to take public transportation to his job, can travel to his Dr appointments with ease (that seems to be the one thing that is consistent among HWH - allowing people to go to their Dr appointments) as he has about 8 scheduled already for once orientation ends and they're allowed "out" of the HWH for work, etc. and then after HWH/HC in March, he's basically home not doing much of anything except working (also from home) until we start these numerous trips over June-Sept and then done. We lead a pretty boring life and my husband is pretty boring, lol. He puts the bland in vanilla that is for sure. The biggest issue here will be filling out the annoying form and making sure there is no gray since everything has to be exact, but I guess if you're not sure, best answer is "I don't know".

Either way, tomorrow we are in single digits and another phase is done!
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:38 AM
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Yes, thank you. We always do prepare for the worst (ie he should be walking out of the prison today due to the good time credit, but Congress messed up the final language when it was passed, so that won't go into effect prior to the 210 days from the bill being signed), so life goes on.

Most of what we have learned is coming from our lawyer and other people we know who are currently on SR in our area with similar or worse circumstances. If anything, it's more of just a nuisance, but no one that he knows that is on SR in Chicago, has had to tell a PO in another location when they are traveling to that location. Maybe it's different depending on the class level or whatever, or maybe the parole office does it for them, but if we have to do it, it's fortunately just a simple contact. The guy told me we can go to the US Virgin Islands. Do they even have a parole office there to contact in that case? Hah, doubt it!

We are expecting mine who is approved for direct home confinement, will not be going to HC because as our attorney has learned, the HWH said they don't care that the BOP has approved him for direct HC, that they have the final say and it's their discretion and upon talking to other people, we have learned that they are keeping people a lot longer than necessary, especially certain types of felons. Since we have an end date, we just accept it for what it is. Max is 53 days and if he's there 53 days, so be it. He'll at least have access to a car, not have to take public transportation to his job, can travel to his Dr appointments with ease (that seems to be the one thing that is consistent among HWH - allowing people to go to their Dr appointments) as he has about 8 scheduled already for once orientation ends and they're allowed "out" of the HWH for work, etc. and then after HWH/HC in March, he's basically home not doing much of anything except working (also from home) until we start these numerous trips over June-Sept and then done. We lead a pretty boring life and my husband is pretty boring, lol. He puts the bland in vanilla that is for sure. The biggest issue here will be filling out the annoying form and making sure there is no gray since everything has to be exact, but I guess if you're not sure, best answer is "I don't know".

Either way, tomorrow we are in single digits and another phase is done!
No, you wouldn't be the one that would fill out or notify the other district, your PO handles that, however that district has the ability to deny travel. That's partly why they ask for a heads up, because there are times, like this shutdown, where they may not get a response for some time.

BTW...They 100% have a US District Court in the Virgin Islands, and in Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. That's my point I guess, is that your PO has to receive permission from that court in order for your husband to travel there. No permission, no travel...it's really that simple. You're PO may have zero issues, but if the district they're travelling to does, then travel will be denied for that specific request.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:56 PM
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No, you wouldn't be the one that would fill out or notify the other district, your PO handles that, however that district has the ability to deny travel. That's partly why they ask for a heads up, because there are times, like this shutdown, where they may not get a response for some time.

BTW...They 100% have a US District Court in the Virgin Islands, and in Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. That's my point I guess, is that your PO has to receive permission from that court in order for your husband to travel there. No permission, no travel...it's really that simple. You're PO may have zero issues, but if the district they're travelling to does, then travel will be denied for that specific request.
I tend to disagree with this. I have asked numerous times to travel for work, family events, etc and, am 95% sure my PO has not contacted the district I am travelling to, permission for me to enter their district. Why I am saying 95% sure instead of 100%. I can not guarantee the PO is not sending a courtesy email alerting the district someone is traveling there but, they are not contacting the other district for permission then waiting for a response. I suppose some very high level case or someone convicted of certain charges may need permission from the other district but, this would very much be the exception rather then the rule or, may be a requirement in their judgement. Again, very very rare....
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:34 PM
rockchalk1 rockchalk1 is offline
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I tend to disagree with this. I have asked numerous times to travel for work, family events, etc and, am 95% sure my PO has not contacted the district I am travelling to, permission for me to enter their district. Why I am saying 95% sure instead of 100%. I can not guarantee the PO is not sending a courtesy email alerting the district someone is traveling there but, they are not contacting the other district for permission then waiting for a response. I suppose some very high level case or someone convicted of certain charges may need permission from the other district but, this would very much be the exception rather then the rule or, may be a requirement in their judgement. Again, very very rare....
Agree and I contacted our attorney on this who knows the system and our PO well and said they absolutely do not contact the parole office in the jurisdiction we will going to. They have heavy enough caseloads as it is, they aren't going to sit and contact and see if there is a follow-up from a PO to deny a visit especially for a zero risk guy. They just do not have the time to do so. Not to mention every guy I've talked to has said they just email the itinerary a little before they go. They aren't emailing permission and then booking their trips.

My husband has 0 points. That's as low risk as you can get. Maybe like worldwide said for people who have higher classifications or risk levels there are differences. Like I assume for a SO it is very different. Our guy doesn't even want to see him again after we meet him during his HWH orientation period. Other than the email telling him we are traveling, he only expects to have contact with my husband once/month when he turns in the monthly form. Even with a job I was surprised that he doesn't care if my husband works for me and I pay him as long as he sees some sort of check going to my husband. Unfortunately, it's all about checking off the box and some of the POs are stuck having to waste time on cases that are just that and aren't able to take the time to spend on cases that need the attention.

Same deal with the HWH. They keep everyone on a leash and then just let them go. That is not real world. Instead, start giving people more privileges AND take them off the leash. The idea that my phone is going to be ringing at all hours of the night for a few weeks, and then one day just stops is bizarre as I don't see how that is reintegrating someone into society. I can understand gradually reducing the phone calls and other things like that, but this whole thing doesn't make sense. Also, where is the reintegration for guys who choose not to go to HWH and stay in prison? They finish their sentences and then wham are just let go. So if there is actually value into reintegrated them, then there should be programs that actually help and are required by everyone. One thing the prison system is lacking is a consistency!
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:11 AM
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It depends. One of my travel requirements for an out of state trip was to appear, in person, at the local POs office as soon as I arrived. One thing about supervised release is that all requirements are very PO/PO supervisor specific.
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  #33  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:37 AM
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Agree and I contacted our attorney on this who knows the system and our PO well and said they absolutely do not contact the parole office in the jurisdiction we will going to. They have heavy enough caseloads as it is, they aren't going to sit and contact and see if there is a follow-up from a PO to deny a visit especially for a zero risk guy. They just do not have the time to do so. Not to mention every guy I've talked to has said they just email the itinerary a little before they go. They aren't emailing permission and then booking their trips.

My husband has 0 points. That's as low risk as you can get. Maybe like worldwide said for people who have higher classifications or risk levels there are differences. Like I assume for a SO it is very different. Our guy doesn't even want to see him again after we meet him during his HWH orientation period. Other than the email telling him we are traveling, he only expects to have contact with my husband once/month when he turns in the monthly form. Even with a job I was surprised that he doesn't care if my husband works for me and I pay him as long as he sees some sort of check going to my husband. Unfortunately, it's all about checking off the box and some of the POs are stuck having to waste time on cases that are just that and aren't able to take the time to spend on cases that need the attention.

Same deal with the HWH. They keep everyone on a leash and then just let them go. That is not real world. Instead, start giving people more privileges AND take them off the leash. The idea that my phone is going to be ringing at all hours of the night for a few weeks, and then one day just stops is bizarre as I don't see how that is reintegrating someone into society. I can understand gradually reducing the phone calls and other things like that, but this whole thing doesn't make sense. Also, where is the reintegration for guys who choose not to go to HWH and stay in prison? They finish their sentences and then wham are just let go. So if there is actually value into
reintegrated them, then there should be programs that actually help and are required by everyone. One thing the prison system is lacking is a consistency!
In no way am I trying to argue about this, I just see a lot of speculation, and I've learned that when I speculate with these people (BOP, HWH, Alderson FPC) I'm usually wrong. They act on their own accord, and most times even interpret the rules according to their own viewing. Because inmates have very little "voice" their complaints aren't heard unless they go through the proper filing channels, and thoroughly research the process.

I've heard that when my fiance gets home the HWH won't keep her for longer than 72 hours. Then yesterday, I find out that a girl who is going to the same HWH on the same day was told that they are there a minimum of 10 days. Who do I believe? Well, I don't believe any of it until I see it happen. It sucks for planning because I never know what new wrinkle is coming, or what changes are coming etc, but I just try to adapt.

So in terms of travel, you might be right, that may be exactly how your PO handles it. However, they may tell you one thing, and choose to do it completely different just to catch you off guard. I guess that's all I'm advising. Stay fluid, understand that the process may be communicated one way, yet handled completely different, and plan for it to change often.

The BOP doesn't operate by constants, they operate within a very fluid system that is constantly adjusting and moving within the parameters they call "law" but by some wouldn't be interpreted as such.
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  #34  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:39 AM
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It depends. One of my travel requirements for an out of state trip was to appear, in person, at the local POs office as soon as I arrived. One thing about supervised release is that all requirements are very PO/PO supervisor specific.
I think a lot of it also depends on what your crime was and your points/level of risk and of course terms of supervised release so that is probably why so many people have different experiences with their PO.

I also think things have changed over time, unfortunately due to the caseloads these guys have. This guy whizzed by our house in May because he was in the area. We weren't home so he had to come back at a scheduled time, but even back in May he had already read my husband's file, knew what his report from the prison/BOP was at that time as well. So of course, his intel was based on the info he had last May, but since then my husband's life in the prison was even less exciting than his first few months, so that is in our favor. Our lawyer has also been in touch with the PO, and it was nice to hear while we didn't have a great prosecutor (which is probably one of the reasons his case dragged on), we have one of the best PO if not the best PO here. The bad news is that with the shutdown, these guys are demoralized. So it'll be interesting if he winds up being even more hands off or just more agitated that he has to deal with us.

I guess we'll know soon enough! Thanks for all your feedback, much appreciated!
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:20 AM
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In no way am I trying to argue about this, I just see a lot of speculation, and I've learned that when I speculate with these people (BOP, HWH, Alderson FPC) I'm usually wrong. They act on their own accord, and most times even interpret the rules according to their own viewing. Because inmates have very little "voice" their complaints aren't heard unless they go through the proper filing channels, and thoroughly research the process.

I've heard that when my fiance gets home the HWH won't keep her for longer than 72 hours. Then yesterday, I find out that a girl who is going to the same HWH on the same day was told that they are there a minimum of 10 days. Who do I believe? Well, I don't believe any of it until I see it happen. It sucks for planning because I never know what new wrinkle is coming, or what changes are coming etc, but I just try to adapt.

So in terms of travel, you might be right, that may be exactly how your PO handles it. However, they may tell you one thing, and choose to do it completely different just to catch you off guard. I guess that's all I'm advising. Stay fluid, understand that the process may be communicated one way, yet handled completely different, and plan for it to change often.

The BOP doesn't operate by constants, they operate within a very fluid system that is constantly adjusting and moving within the parameters they call "law" but by some wouldn't be interpreted as such.
As for your fiance, if you call the HWH they can tell you how long their orientation is and/or how long they require people to stay. There should also be a "handbook" available to her at her prison for the HWH she is going to (they all have them), that has that information. That said, if you still can't get that information, then have her attorney call the HWH and speak to them. It is consistent among HWH's what they do.

Many (of course not ours) only require a few hours of orientation, then send the people right home to HC. Ours, due to their merry go round type of orientation that I'm not even going to get into the stupidity of, requires 10-14 days. They make you meet with "someone" from the probation office and that person only comes every other Monday. So you have to hang around for that. They make you meet with the pastor to go over how a "church" pass works. Meet with the "computer room" person. Etc. Completely inefficient, because you go around getting signatures from each of these people and you meet with them for 5 mins each. So it's pathetic that you are not allowed to leave the HWH for the entire orientation time (until you get all 10-12 signatures) which should take less than an hour, but because people don't show up, cancel their appt with you, or whatever bs happens, takes this place 14 days! Then, even if you're approved for HC from the prison, they say they don't care and it's their discretion as to whether or not they send you home and when.

Oh and don't forget. You can't come home or have a home pass, until you have a landline with no features. You have to prove you've had a landline for one cycle before they will come do a home inspection (mind you, the PO has already done his home inspection, so this is just more duplicity in the system), and then after the home inspection (which they claim they're 6 weeks behind) will they then allow for passes home or the potential for HC. This is all ridiculous of course, so while the prison has told my husband, "you'll be sleeping in your own bed as soon as you go through orientation" we know this is a crock as they have no clue! So whether you believe it or not, we do know things do not always work out how they're supposed to work out and we prepare for them. That is what this process has been like for the last 5+ years. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Is it really the end of the world if my husband's PO decides he wants to be more annoying that everyone who knows him and is in the system has told us he would be? No of course not. Just more paperwork on our end. As you have said, we have obviously done our research. Hence, then you would know, if we have done our research, which we have done continuously from Day 1, then you would know we don't do anything halfway, are prepared for absolutely every curve, as there have certainly been a few, but that said, are obviously very anal organized people and structured. So being a puppet to the PO or HWH or whomever, for 8 more months, is not going to be the end of the world. If he is in the HWH for the 6 weeks as we're anticipating due to their bs and inefficiencies, then he will only be on HC for 11 days. Seems like a waste to have gone through the whole process of having a land line and what not, but it is what it is. If he is home sooner, then it is a bonus!

He will have a car there, he will be able to drive to his office, and then when he is on HC he will be able to work from home and same with SR. He will be out of the house very limitedly. With the exception of doing some early morning carpooling we are taking life easy. As stated in another thread, it was only yesterday when he told me that I visited him 20x since he's been there that I realized how much I've traveled over the past year. That doesn't even include my traveling elsewhere. It's time to sit still for awhile. Do what we normally do, and then if we have to kiss someone's ass to say, "Hey, we're coming down to Austin for college orientation and here's our itinerary, are there problems?" and they tell us, yes there's a problem. Then we don't go. Is it a nuisance? Yes. Is it the be all to end all? Absolutely not. My husband will be home. He only had to deal with this nonsense until September. Yes, is there a chance in September that they don't agree to Early termination of his Supervised Release? Yes, of course. But having said that, we are ready for anything. Heck, we were ready for my husband to be sentenced to 3-5 years in prison. We were not expecting him to receive only 18 months. But having a judge who saw the whole case for what it was and that others were accountable as well and not taking any accountability unlike my husband, no doubt helped him.

Now as I'm sure like you, all we want to do is move to the next stage and get him out of there in 9 days barring any disaster happening. I don't think he will breathe easily until we are on that airplane moving away from the gate.

And I agree with you 100%, they act on their own accord and do not operate with any constants. One of his biggest beefs is the lack of consistency through the prison. And worse, the warden claims she wants to hear suggestions from the inmates, but of course she doesn't. My husband told his education CO that he thinks something valuable would be if the warden actually performed some type of exit interview with the inmates upon them leaving. Just to shoot the shit and have an honest assessment. Or, at least have them fill out anonymous surveys in the prison while they're there. Not everyone will do it, of course many can't read/write, but at least a sample. Anyway, the CO said he will do it with my husband. He liked the idea. I mean not that it will go anywhere, but if they aren't talking to the actual inmates, how do they really know what is going on with them? They don't. Instead, their rules change all the time, and again, no consistency!

I wish one day a former inmate would just write a letter (anonymous or not) the warden and different employees laying out everything for them, where the cell phones are hidden, where the K2 and other drugs, what the schemes going on are, etc. Good guys get punished, others do not. These poor families visiting while their loved ones inside are poisoning themselves. It's heartbreaking when I'm sitting there with him and he points to someone that is a huge K2 user or other drug abuser and the guy has little kids running around who is an innocent.

And just wait until your fiance gets to the HWH/HC and the leash they put on her and the crap both of you will have to deal with. Every movement she makes. Coming to her work or calling her boss. Where has she been, etc? Your wedding plans, which hopefully they allow to go through without issue. But no real reintegration effort. What someone who has been gone for 8 months needs is completely different than someone who has been gone for 8 years. Yet, they are not treated any differently as you'll soon see. Similar for someone who committed a white collar crime, vs a violent crime. They all need something, but just not the same thing. The system is too big to change and probably needs to change from the bottom up, but definitely not happening in our lifetime!

It's all baby steps here, and any "give" is a bonus. If my husband is sent home after 2 weeks, that's the bonus. We always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. When dealing with the BOP you just have to. I'm not kidding myself to think otherwise! If you had been around here longer than a couple months, you would know that, but I get it!
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:00 AM
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As for your fiance, if you call the HWH they can tell you how long their orientation is and/or how long they require people to stay. There should also be a "handbook" available to her at her prison for the HWH she is going to (they all have them), that has that information. That said, if you still can't get that information, then have her attorney call the HWH and speak to them. It is consistent among HWH's what they do.

Many (of course not ours) only require a few hours of orientation, then send the people right home to HC. Ours, due to their merry go round type of orientation that I'm not even going to get into the stupidity of, requires 10-14 days. They make you meet with "someone" from the probation office and that person only comes every other Monday. So you have to hang around for that. They make you meet with the pastor to go over how a "church" pass works. Meet with the "computer room" person. Etc. Completely inefficient, because you go around getting signatures from each of these people and you meet with them for 5 mins each. So it's pathetic that you are not allowed to leave the HWH for the entire orientation time (until you get all 10-12 signatures) which should take less than an hour, but because people don't show up, cancel their appt with you, or whatever bs happens, takes this place 14 days! Then, even if you're approved for HC from the prison, they say they don't care and it's their discretion as to whether or not they send you home and when.

Oh and don't forget. You can't come home or have a home pass, until you have a landline with no features. You have to prove you've had a landline for one cycle before they will come do a home inspection (mind you, the PO has already done his home inspection, so this is just more duplicity in the system), and then after the home inspection (which they claim they're 6 weeks behind) will they then allow for passes home or the potential for HC. This is all ridiculous of course, so while the prison has told my husband, "you'll be sleeping in your own bed as soon as you go through orientation" we know this is a crock as they have no clue! So whether you believe it or not, we do know things do not always work out how they're supposed to work out and we prepare for them. That is what this process has been like for the last 5+ years. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Is it really the end of the world if my husband's PO decides he wants to be more annoying that everyone who knows him and is in the system has told us he would be? No of course not. Just more paperwork on our end. As you have said, we have obviously done our research. Hence, then you would know, if we have done our research, which we have done continuously from Day 1, then you would know we don't do anything halfway, are prepared for absolutely every curve, as there have certainly been a few, but that said, are obviously very anal organized people and structured. So being a puppet to the PO or HWH or whomever, for 8 more months, is not going to be the end of the world. If he is in the HWH for the 6 weeks as we're anticipating due to their bs and inefficiencies, then he will only be on HC for 11 days. Seems like a waste to have gone through the whole process of having a land line and what not, but it is what it is. If he is home sooner, then it is a bonus!

He will have a car there, he will be able to drive to his office, and then when he is on HC he will be able to work from home and same with SR. He will be out of the house very limitedly. With the exception of doing some early morning carpooling we are taking life easy. As stated in another thread, it was only yesterday when he told me that I visited him 20x since he's been there that I realized how much I've traveled over the past year. That doesn't even include my traveling elsewhere. It's time to sit still for awhile. Do what we normally do, and then if we have to kiss someone's ass to say, "Hey, we're coming down to Austin for college orientation and here's our itinerary, are there problems?" and they tell us, yes there's a problem. Then we don't go. Is it a nuisance? Yes. Is it the be all to end all? Absolutely not. My husband will be home. He only had to deal with this nonsense until September. Yes, is there a chance in September that they don't agree to Early termination of his Supervised Release? Yes, of course. But having said that, we are ready for anything. Heck, we were ready for my husband to be sentenced to 3-5 years in prison. We were not expecting him to receive only 18 months. But having a judge who saw the whole case for what it was and that others were accountable as well and not taking any accountability unlike my husband, no doubt helped him.

Now as I'm sure like you, all we want to do is move to the next stage and get him out of there in 9 days barring any disaster happening. I don't think he will breathe easily until we are on that airplane moving away from the gate.

And I agree with you 100%, they act on their own accord and do not operate with any constants. One of his biggest beefs is the lack of consistency through the prison. And worse, the warden claims she wants to hear suggestions from the inmates, but of course she doesn't. My husband told his education CO that he thinks something valuable would be if the warden actually performed some type of exit interview with the inmates upon them leaving. Just to shoot the shit and have an honest assessment. Or, at least have them fill out anonymous surveys in the prison while they're there. Not everyone will do it, of course many can't read/write, but at least a sample. Anyway, the CO said he will do it with my husband. He liked the idea. I mean not that it will go anywhere, but if they aren't talking to the actual inmates, how do they really know what is going on with them? They don't. Instead, their rules change all the time, and again, no consistency!

I wish one day a former inmate would just write a letter (anonymous or not) the warden and different employees laying out everything for them, where the cell phones are hidden, where the K2 and other drugs, what the schemes going on are, etc. Good guys get punished, others do not. These poor families visiting while their loved ones inside are poisoning themselves. It's heartbreaking when I'm sitting there with him and he points to someone that is a huge K2 user or other drug abuser and the guy has little kids running around who is an innocent.

And just wait until your fiance gets to the HWH/HC and the leash they put on her and the crap both of you will have to deal with. Every movement she makes. Coming to her work or calling her boss. Where has she been, etc? Your wedding plans, which hopefully they allow to go through without issue. But no real reintegration effort. What someone who has been gone for 8 months needs is completely different than someone who has been gone for 8 years. Yet, they are not treated any differently as you'll soon see. Similar for someone who committed a white collar crime, vs a violent crime. They all need something, but just not the same thing. The system is too big to change and probably needs to change from the bottom up, but definitely not happening in our lifetime!

It's all baby steps here, and any "give" is a bonus. If my husband is sent home after 2 weeks, that's the bonus. We always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. When dealing with the BOP you just have to. I'm not kidding myself to think otherwise! If you had been around here longer than a couple months, you would know that, but I get it!
I've been around for 8 months actually, and obviously I touched a nerve, not my intention.

They don't care about these inmates, or their families. To me, regardless of offense, they should all be treated like humans. I realize that there is a difference between "white collar" crimes or crimes in general, but crap, the system they use to convict isn't even a fair system.

Going into this whole thing, I had a false belief that there would be consistency, so yeah I've read both handbooks, both from Alderson and from the HWH she'll be going too, however they don't stand up. Alderson is extremely specific regarding their visitation rules, however this new warden has completely changed them. Same as the HWH, it specifically says in their handbook, that federal inmates are not allowed cell phones that connect to the internet, however I talked to them yesterday and they told me she's allowed any kind of phone.

I believe the 10 day process you describe is similar to what she'll have to experience. I do have a landline with zero features, however, up here they use a phone app for HC inmates. It works off of curfew. I've been explained that process in detail, however, again, I don't fully buy their explanation until I see it in action.

The most frustrating thing about this whole process is that nobody will give you the same answer, you'd swear you were asking about their religious beliefs instead of HWH rules and regs.

Either way, I wish you the best, we're fastly approaching single digits on our end as well, and I'll know the ins and outs of her RRC stuff soon. Good luck!
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:16 AM
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I've been around for 8 months actually, and obviously I touched a nerve, not my intention.

They don't care about these inmates, or their families. To me, regardless of offense, they should all be treated like humans. I realize that there is a difference between "white collar" crimes or crimes in general, but crap, the system they use to convict isn't even a fair system.

Going into this whole thing, I had a false belief that there would be consistency, so yeah I've read both handbooks, both from Alderson and from the HWH she'll be going too, however they don't stand up. Alderson is extremely specific regarding their visitation rules, however this new warden has completely changed them. Same as the HWH, it specifically says in their handbook, that federal inmates are not allowed cell phones that connect to the internet, however I talked to them yesterday and they told me she's allowed any kind of phone.

I believe the 10 day process you describe is similar to what she'll have to experience. I do have a landline with zero features, however, up here they use a phone app for HC inmates. It works off of curfew. I've been explained that process in detail, however, again, I don't fully buy their explanation until I see it in action.

The most frustrating thing about this whole process is that nobody will give you the same answer, you'd swear you were asking about their religious beliefs instead of HWH rules and regs.

Either way, I wish you the best, we're fastly approaching single digits on our end as well, and I'll know the ins and outs of her RRC stuff soon. Good luck!
Hah, now that is where the consistency is -- "nobody will give you the same answer". That actually had me laughing because it is so true.

We don't have any sort of app here for them calling unless they've changed that in the last few months. I just reconnected my fax line for $35/month which is a total waste because I didn't want to remove the features on my main line. I've then heard if they call and get a busy signal, they don't necessarily call back, they just write you up and give you a shot. So stupid! Like what's the point of making you get a landline with no features if you can't use the phone for anything other than leaving it open for these jerks? A friend of mine actually had to show them where the phone line went into the wall. I mean really? Our visiting was the same throughout his time until last week when they started assigning seats, but it wasn't a big deal. They just put families with kids closer to the tv room and the rest of us in the other are but gave us some choice and we basically had 6 chairs and a table like we normally do to ourselves and we could move around, so it's not like he had to sit and face a certain direction like I've hard at different camps. The only bad part about it was freezing our asses off the first day because they put us too close to the door and people kept leaving the door open (does swing shut) and it was -4 degrees.

Everyone is human and that is what I constantly say, they don't do anything to reintegrate people into society. It's a joke. Every movement is monitored. So basically for 53 days everything my husband does is essentially monitored, or at least he has to give a schedule of what he is doing, and then bam on day 54 he is done just like that. Makes no sense. He will have to go back for a drug test once/week on their demand and once/week to meet with his counselor. It's a nuisance and it's disruptive, but they don't care. That isn't how you help reintegrate him. How about working with him and the family together into how best to have him come back and cause the least amount of disruption as opposed to just causing more disruption by calling all night long? I've already told him if that becomes a problem, he has to sleep in a different room because I can't have the phone waking the rest of us up all night long and then not being able to go back to sleep because of it.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:58 AM
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One more "maybe". At my HWH the only way having a car was approved was when it was job related (including for commuting). Any other use, even when a car was allowed, required specific permission.

Everyone got one thing right for sure, the bop and HWH do things however they want to do them at that moment, which means it may be different from day to day, and even between employees on the same day..
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:07 PM
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So, I called to talk to her case worker in order to get a sort of final list. Here is what she told me.
She said that I can't send any alcohol based cosmetics (weird), or bedding (duh). She told me that the orientation/take in should only take a few days, and that she should expect to be able to go back to work the following week so February 11th. She won't be elligible for home confinement until she reaches her 10% date which is March 11. She won't be eligible for weekend home passes until she has two weeks of work in with no shots, so that'll be March 1st.
Here's what I found really weird. So, because I have Xfinity as my cable, internet, phone provider, I had to get a second line to ensure it had no extras, because you can just call and have the extras turned on, on the first line. I mean, I could call and have extras turned on with the second line too right? It just makes no sense. She did inform that at home inspection, we were allowed no guns or alcohol, which isn't an issue because I don't have either, but I'm not sure why the no alcohol in my home.
I don't know, I guess waiting three weeks for her first weekend pass isn't so bad. It'll give her an opportunity to work and get back into the swing of that. I have her boss not scheduling her for weekends once she's able to get passes/be on HC so that we have that time to reacclimate.
This whole process is odd.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:52 PM
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So, I called to talk to her case worker in order to get a sort of final list. Here is what she told me.
She said that I can't send any alcohol based cosmetics (weird), or bedding (duh). She told me that the orientation/take in should only take a few days, and that she should expect to be able to go back to work the following week so February 11th. She won't be elligible for home confinement until she reaches her 10% date which is March 11. She won't be eligible for weekend home passes until she has two weeks of work in with no shots, so that'll be March 1st.
Here's what I found really weird. So, because I have Xfinity as my cable, internet, phone provider, I had to get a second line to ensure it had no extras, because you can just call and have the extras turned on, on the first line. I mean, I could call and have extras turned on with the second line too right? It just makes no sense. She did inform that at home inspection, we were allowed no guns or alcohol, which isn't an issue because I don't have either, but I'm not sure why the no alcohol in my home.
I don't know, I guess waiting three weeks for her first weekend pass isn't so bad. It'll give her an opportunity to work and get back into the swing of that. I have her boss not scheduling her for weekends once she's able to get passes/be on HC so that we have that time to reacclimate.
This whole process is odd.
Her sentence was less than a year, correct? If so, I think that's why she isn't eligible for the HC sooner than the 10%.

The alcohol has to do with them drinking it. I know, ridiculous. Our friend had clorox wipes, they let it go in the first time they searched his bag, but then they were taken from his room later. He saw them in the maintenance closet after that. So stupid! Ours provide bedding so maybe there's something with that and people hiding things? Does she have a private room? Make sure she never leaves anything valuable in it no matter what. I have heard that they go in at all hours of the day and you have no idea who's in and going through what. And obviously go in when you're not there since they took the wipes from our friend, no doubt because they thought he would be sniffing it. What a joke. But, K2 users will use chemicals to smoke anything. This guy was a white collar guy. That's the problem. Do the history and analysis and you know these people aren't the issue.

You're lucky she can go to work after 1 week. Mine can't do anything until after that 2 weeks of time. The lawyer said to start scheduling the Dr appointments right after that because that's the one thing they don't stop you from doing. That is also one consistency throughout all the HWHs I've found. Dr appointments. Clearly they don't want to be sued.

No alcohol because she can't drink during the HWH period so I assume that's off limits. I don't have alcohol in my house anyway, and definitely do NOT own any guns so no issue here.

The phone is weird but that's typical. Here they won't do the inspection at all until you have one cycle through on the land line. It cannot be an internet phone. When I called ATT and was saying stuff like "line with no features" I got so annoyed dancing around with the issue I finally said for my husband on home confinement and the lady said back "I know". Then told me they are trained for that specifically and know exactly what we need, etc. After that it was smooth sailing. But, I'm paying $35/month for bs.

Also in the HWH don't forget she has to pay them 25% of her gross. Which leaves next to nothing for her and for people that have no homes or anything no idea how they think they get acclimated back to society on that!
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:55 PM
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One more "maybe". At my HWH the only way having a car was approved was when it was job related (including for commuting). Any other use, even when a car was allowed, required specific permission.

Everyone got one thing right for sure, the bop and HWH do things however they want to do them at that moment, which means it may be different from day to day, and even between employees on the same day..
Honestly, I would be ok with him not having a car. It is a bigger inconvenience to me letting him have a car there, but that is one thing they list in their handbook and everyone there has told me they allow it with no issue. He just has to show the insurance and registration.

He is only going to be using it for going downtown to work and up here to the Dr. and back.

It's really not that safe, between the weather we're having right now and the neighborhood to be walking around at night using public transportation, and unless I'm the one calling uber and monitoring it, that won't be an option since they aren't allowed a cell phone. I also don't think they even allow them to take taxis, which means no uber/lyft anyway.
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:58 PM
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So, I called to talk to her case worker in order to get a sort of final list. Here is what she told me.
She said that I can't send any alcohol based cosmetics (weird), or bedding (duh). She told me that the orientation/take in should only take a few days, and that she should expect to be able to go back to work the following week so February 11th. She won't be elligible for home confinement until she reaches her 10% date which is March 11. She won't be eligible for weekend home passes until she has two weeks of work in with no shots, so that'll be March 1st.
Here's what I found really weird. So, because I have Xfinity as my cable, internet, phone provider, I had to get a second line to ensure it had no extras, because you can just call and have the extras turned on, on the first line. I mean, I could call and have extras turned on with the second line too right? It just makes no sense. She did inform that at home inspection, we were allowed no guns or alcohol, which isn't an issue because I don't have either, but I'm not sure why the no alcohol in my home.
I don't know, I guess waiting three weeks for her first weekend pass isn't so bad. It'll give her an opportunity to work and get back into the swing of that. I have her boss not scheduling her for weekends once she's able to get passes/be on HC so that we have that time to reacclimate.
This whole process is odd.
Oh something else at ours that is ridiculous. He is only allowed visitors for 5 hours a week. And, what that means is it's on the same day, 3 hours in the evening and 2 hours during the day. He can have 3 people during the day and 3 at night, but not the same 3 people! Wtf?

So basically I can visit him for 3 hours once/week while he's in the HWH. And besides the fact that I'm not coming down at night between the dark and rush hour. If it's a day I'm working, it is likely I wont be seeing him at all, unless I want to go to CHURCH! Also, they apparently change the day of the week for visiting every week. I mean seriously, you cannot make this crap up. He has 3 full legal pads of notes for a book he is writing about the whole prison experience. It just gets funnier and funnier as time goes by.
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:20 PM
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Leaving prison is step one. Then the HWH is even pettier than the bop ever was, so you have to deal with their silliness, especially about drug & alcohol testing. After that it still isn't nearly finished because of "supervised release" and a probation officer for a shadow.

In my opinion, once the entire prison sentence has been completed, our big brother government should leave us alone. After all they still have all of the new folks to harass/bully, but it won't happen, they are having too much fun.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:49 AM
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Her sentence was 12 months 1 day, so yeah that's why the 10%. I'm not worried about it honestly because it will give her time to acclimate to getting to work, seeing people etc. She works at Buffalo Wild Wings which I've encouraged her to keep doing because I pay so much in tax and her making the majority of her money from tips is nice for us as a family. Her case manager didn't seem to have an issue with her being a bartender which I thought was odd, but she said it wouldn't be an issue for her to go right back to work.

Her first eligible home pass for a weekend will be the weekend of March 1st, again, it's literally 3 weeks from when I drop her off so not a big deal. The first 8 months of our relationship we only saw each other on weekends so it isn't anything I haven't dealt with. Also, the restaurant she works at is about 10 minutes from our house, so for me to pop in and see her isn't an issue either.
Honestly, it's all just learning the ropes and working through the process one day at a time. At the end of the day, she'll be 20 minutes away and not 7 hours, so that's a positive to me. I'm just ready for it to be over...12 days from today I'll go pick her up.
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:47 AM
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Her sentence was 12 months 1 day, so yeah that's why the 10%. I'm not worried about it honestly because it will give her time to acclimate to getting to work, seeing people etc. She works at Buffalo Wild Wings which I've encouraged her to keep doing because I pay so much in tax and her making the majority of her money from tips is nice for us as a family. Her case manager didn't seem to have an issue with her being a bartender which I thought was odd, but she said it wouldn't be an issue for her to go right back to work.

Her first eligible home pass for a weekend will be the weekend of March 1st, again, it's literally 3 weeks from when I drop her off so not a big deal. The first 8 months of our relationship we only saw each other on weekends so it isn't anything I haven't dealt with. Also, the restaurant she works at is about 10 minutes from our house, so for me to pop in and see her isn't an issue either.
Honestly, it's all just learning the ropes and working through the process one day at a time. At the end of the day, she'll be 20 minutes away and not 7 hours, so that's a positive to me. I'm just ready for it to be over...12 days from today I'll go pick her up.
Yeah her working in a public place is nice for you. You can eat a lot of meals there and see her. My husband will be working in an office in the city, so other than when he is at Dr appointments up here, or the visiting, it may be tough, but I guess I've managed seeing him only every few weeks for the last year, we can handle this. At least we will be able to talk all the time.

The liquor thing is kind of bizarre for you guys since she can handle and serve it, yet you can't have it in your house. Like just because she works around it she's less likely to take a drink than if it were at your house? Can the stupid get any more stupid? That doesn't even make sense. Not that she's going to drink at either place, but the whole thing is just bizarre.

Well at the end of the day, just know that she'll be done soon enough in that phase too and there isn't anything they can do about it. Here I've heard even with a "write up" they don't do anything anyway. What's the point?
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:18 AM
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Yeah her working in a public place is nice for you. You can eat a lot of meals there and see her. My husband will be working in an office in the city, so other than when he is at Dr appointments up here, or the visiting, it may be tough, but I guess I've managed seeing him only every few weeks for the last year, we can handle this. At least we will be able to talk all the time.

The liquor thing is kind of bizarre for you guys since she can handle and serve it, yet you can't have it in your house. Like just because she works around it she's less likely to take a drink than if it were at your house? Can the stupid get any more stupid? That doesn't even make sense. Not that she's going to drink at either place, but the whole thing is just bizarre.

Well at the end of the day, just know that she'll be done soon enough in that phase too and there isn't anything they can do about it. Here I've heard even with a "write up" they don't do anything anyway. What's the point?
Yeah, I find the whole alcohol ordeal strange too. I mean, I get the rules of HWH, but she wasn't in RDAP, has no issue with alcohol and rarely even drinks, neither of us do. I'll take it though.

The one thing I've got to get her started on is approval to get married. Our plan is nothing big as a friend of mine is going to marry us, and it'll be at our house, but I'm sure it can be a difficult process. I do know that I have to write a letter and have it notorized expressing my intentions to marry her, which I think again is odd, but it's their rules we'll live by for the next 18-36 months so I better get used to it.

My biggest hope is that pre-trial probation, and supervised release aren't entirely different, although like we went back and forth over, it's the travel that worries me most. I plan to definitely have her approach her PO regarding getting supervised release discontinued early, but we'll go down that stretch when we get to it I guess.
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Old 01-23-2019, 03:25 PM
fbopnomore fbopnomore is offline
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She won't know her actual SR rules until she is released from bop custody at the HWH. I was in a similar position regarding alcohol, and my only SR restriction was "don't drink to excess" whatever that meant. There was no mention of alcohol in the home.

If her judgment & commitment order didn't include alcohol, and she didn't go through RDAP, any other restrictions are PO and/or PO office driven, with lots of individual discretion.
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Last edited by fbopnomore; 01-23-2019 at 03:29 PM..
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