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  #1  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:47 PM
Combs Combs is offline
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Default Some Things Never Change

A guy I used to know got a felony DUI and got tossed into the local 18-month county drug court program. He washed out by getting his second felony DUI. The judge was incensed and slapped him with a 2 2/3 to 8 (which was typical for the list of offenses that sentence wrapped up).

When he got into the state system, they put him into the 6-month “Shock” program (a military boot camp-like deal, after which you may or may not get early Parole). He got a Parole hearing after he finished Shock and they gave him discretionary early Parole. Both of these things were just freakishly unlikely for the state I’m in. The rule is that Shock is supposed to be for non-violent first time felons only. That rule was disregarded, as this guy had two felonies. The early Parole was even more freakishly unlikely. My state almost never gives early Parole to repeat felony-level DUI artists. Realistically, objectively and honestly speaking --- my guy won the equal of the Powerball Lottery jackpot twice in a row and he was out of prison in under a year (less than half of the time it would’ve taken him to get to his Merit Date). When you’re facing a 2 2/3 to 8, that’s pretty much miracle status in my state and it’s a straight up miracle for repeat felony level DUI artists.

Anyhow, I looked him up in the prison dept website last week. He blew it again, he’s back inside the fence again and his earliest possible release date is the same as his Conditional Release Date, which is >3 1/2 years from now. When he got tossed back inside, it was for a 3 2/3 year run. YIKES -- talk about snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory!!

During my time inside, I saw all kinds of guys come back in for PV’s. Almost all PV’s ran in the 1 to 6 month range, and on very rare occasion I saw one for a year or more. In my experience, you had to work real hard to come up with a 1-year PV run. I never even heard of a 3 2/3 year PV run before.

Well -- I suspect my guy earned and deserved what he got, so I’m not grieving or anything. Nonetheless -- what my guy did makes me just shake my head in disbelief. I’ve displayed some self-destructive thinking in many of my behaviors of years past (pre-2006), but even I finally figured it all the hell out and cut out my stupid misbehaviors.

When I see somebody (actually a lot like me) who adamantly refuses to ever figure anything out and who insists on persisting with potentially lethal self-destructive misbehaviors after getting every possible break (on THREE different occasions), I have a hard time believing it.

Oh, well. When he gets out, he’ll still have 2 years left on Parole. They'll undoubtedly feed him straight into a 6-month OP counseling program his first week back outside. Worse yet, they’ll (appropriately) be all over him worse than paint on a wall because of his record. I think the smart money will be on him screwing up at least once or twice more. I don’t think he’ll have the stuff to suck up two years of having a 250 pound PO sitting on each of his shoulders and an office full of hostile Alcohol/Substance Counselors to please for 6 months.

This is a good example of why prisons, supervision and all the rest of the whole damn system are such big business and will never go away. There are just too many dunces doing their very personal best to fight their way to back inside the fence.
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2018, 05:45 PM
onedayatatime13 onedayatatime13 is offline
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Here is the latest Shock directive. I'm not sure what has changed since you left.
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File Type: pdf 0086 (1).pdf (91.1 KB, 7 views)
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:47 PM
onedayatatime13 onedayatatime13 is offline
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Also, he got out very early from a potentially long sentence. He owed back time. They gave it to him after he got the gift of Shock the second time around.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:20 PM
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Are these programs really gifts, or merely traps for the prisoners (and parolees/probationers) who agree to take them? Federal RDAP is the only program that offers some folks a little extra time off of their sentences, but it comes at a steep price. Federal SOTP increased the odds of being coerced into civil commitment, after completion of their entire prison sentence, at least for the 2 or 3 years it took for them to see a judge, and learn "you never qualified for CC, so you can go home now".

Having completed military basic training, I would never volunteer for a prison shock program where underachieving prison guards are allowed (encouraged) to mistreat inmates.

Be careful what you wish for, or at least find out exactly what you are signing up for. before you do.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:37 PM
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I posted about my prison boot camp experience back when I caught my first felony, here: http://prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701392

Surprised they are still practicing it there in New York. Most states have done away with such programs, as they haven't proven effective at reducing recidivism.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
Are these programs really gifts, or merely traps for the prisoners (and parolees/probationers) who agree to take them? Federal RDAP is the only program that offers some folks a little extra time off of their sentences, but it comes at a steep price. Federal SOTP increased the odds of being coerced into civil commitment, after completion of their entire prison sentence, at least for the 2 or 3 years it took for them to see a judge, and learn "you never qualified for CC, so you can go home now".

Having completed military basic training, I would never volunteer for a prison shock program where underachieving prison guards are allowed (encouraged) to mistreat inmates.

Be careful what you wish for, or at least find out exactly what you are signing up for. before you do.
For our situation, we look at the program as a gift.it could potentially bring him home 3 yrs earlier. Based on stats the recidivism rate is much lower. Yes, he has met others who have done it and are back. We shall see how it works out. We have time before he will go.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onedayatatime13 View Post
Based on stats the recidivism rate is much lower.
Which stats are those?

According the only meta-analysis study I'm aware of -- Wilson, Mackenzie, Mitchell (2008) -- it was found that the recidivism rate for offenders who complete such paramilitary boot camp programs was just as high as those who served straight prison time. In other words, there was no reduction in recidivism.

Unless the New York Shock program is somehow fundamentally different from all those tried before in other states that have since discontinued such programs...
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:12 PM
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https://www.northcountrypublicradio....-shock-program

http://nationswell.com/new-york-shoc...on-recidivism/

Seems to hover around 28-30% vs 65%
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:18 PM
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Ah. I noticed this in that second link you posted:

Quote:
Advocates say it’s because of their focus on social programs and therapy, rather than just military drills and discipline.
That probably has more to do with it, as most of those early boot camp programs only focused on the military drills and discipline, and not much on actual programming.

I agree that it sounds like a good option to give prisoners a chance at freedom after serving only 6 months, instead of years of an actual prison sentence...
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:32 PM
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Drug counseling and/or school is a major component. Originally designed for drug offenders. Right now, he is not receiving any counseling just working. One program he needs he will get there. They won't give it to him now because he would take it twice.

If this doesn't work, then off to plans b,c, and d.

I found a youtube video on Willard which is primarily for PV (90 days), but a similar set up. Our first conversation about the program I told him he would hate it. I told him what to expect. He didn't care if it meant coming home early. He has been asking questions on how to fold make his bed, etc etc so he can practice now. Only thing he is worried about is eating within a certain time frame. He is a slow eater.

But I agree, the therapeutic piece is extremely important and should be a major component. Not 6 month bs classes here and there.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
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Only thing he is worried about is eating within a certain time frame. He is a slow eater.
Yes, that can be an issue even in regular prison... if you don't get up there near the start of the line, be prepared to scarf your food down before they make everyone clear the chow hall!
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:44 PM
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In the end, the person has to make the decision to set priorities and make a life for themselves. These carrots are dangled and can be useful or they use it as a way to go back to business as usual. Then screw themselves even more.

Mine will experience both prison and hopefully this program. Those who go into the program right away may feel hey this was no big deal and not feel the weight of consequences. I really don't know. Each experience is different. Each person is different. I just hope for them best, research what I can, and do what I can to support.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:44 PM
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One consideration is the amount of time that will be knocked off of your sentence for completing the program. In federal prison, the maximum amount of time for completing the only program that awards any extra good time, the residential drug abuse program, (and not everyone who completes the program is eligible for any extra time off) is one year, 6 months of which must be spent in a half way house (additional) drug program. Recently many RDAP graduates have reported that nobody is receiving the maximum amount anymore.

There are also additional restrictions that follow RDAP folks during their supervised release/probation too.

In other prison systems, the program issues versus the program rewards computation appears to be much more favorable for the participants than it is in the bop. What will be required of me, and what will I actually gain from it are questions that everyone should ask before signing up.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, that can be an issue even in regular prison... if you don't get up there near the start of the line, be prepared to scarf your food down before they make everyone clear the chow hall!
My husband's a quick eater. Me, on the other hand, could be first in line and still eating when they clear chow hall. My husband is also in New York and I'm fairly certain I heard some momentary discussion about putting him in a shock camp. I pray that doesn't happen because, with the mental state he's in, I fear shock camp would make things worse for him. Shock camp may work on some people, but for others, I fear it would be a disaster. If I survived shock camp, it would be by the skin of my teeth.
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:38 PM
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It's like the "scared straight" programs. Terrorize them so much that they will be afraid to mess up in the future. The problem is the psychological damage it does to many of the "participants/victims". I guess "shock" was named after "electric shock", it may work sometimes (so do lobotomies), but at what cost?
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:45 PM
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It's like the "scared straight" programs. Terrorize them so much that they will be afraid to mess up in the future. The problem is the psychological damage it does to many of the "participants/victims". I guess "shock" was named after "electric shock", it may work sometimes (so do lobotomies), but at what cost?
Exactly, and my husband already deals with schizoaffective disorder, so he certainly doesn't need prison to make it even worse.
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