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The War on Drugs - and the results of it A war against drugs, or against families?

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  #1  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:39 AM
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Default DOJ’s Return to Harsh Enforcement for Drug Crimes / Update: Rally 5/16/2017

Federal Prison Population will Expand under new DOJ Directive

May 12, 2017
The Sentencing Project condemns DOJ’s return to harsh enforcement of low-level drug crimes

Washington, D.C.— Marc Mauer, Executive Director of The Sentencing Project, issued the following statement following Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ announcement to reverse the Department of Justice’s Smart on Crime Initiative:
“Attorney General Sessions’ decision to end the Smart on Crime initiative, despite warnings of the impact of reinvigorating the War on Drugs from criminologists and advocates, will again fill federal prisons with people convicted of low-level drug offenses serving excessive sentences. Sessions’ decision to reverse the Obama-era directive that deprioritized the Department of Justice’s use of harsh mandatory minimum sentences in low-level drug cases is a huge misdirection.


http://www.sentencingproject.org/new...l-drug-crimes/


Jeff Session is an idiot
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:30 PM
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A full head of steam back to the failed policy of imprisoning everybody, for as long as humanly possible, by embellishing their criminal charges. One drug purchase results in a 25 count indictment that carries mandatory minimum sentences totaling 50 plus years. Why, because our new Attorney General has decided that anyone who uses marijuana, purchased legally or not under State law, is an evil doer who must be punished, severely.

Your bathroom mirror will reveal the truly evil one Jeff.
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:44 PM
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For example, adding "money laundering" to every set of charges where money changed hands. Or the firearms enhancements that put away one weed dealer for 55 years.

Gotta say, though, there's the old cowboy saying "Don't go tellin' me I missed, less'n you know what I was aimin' at". The War On Some Drugs is only a failed policy if the intent was to protect public health.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:32 PM
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Sure lets spend billions on something we know will not work. Yet our veterans and our senior citizen are homeless and can not afford to make ends met each month. Here we go back 40 years to something that already failed . I think out new U.S. A.G has his money invested in private prisons
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:12 PM
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The reality is that the majority of 'low level' drug offenses are prosecuted at the State level, not the federal level. The schmuck muling five pounds of pot is generally not going to be a federal case. The guy with a few thousand pounds deserves whatever they get.

And the soft on crime approach shown by the previous administration is ALREADY seeing people returning to the process, which shows that lessening sentences is NOT the answer either. Article in today's paper about the guy in San Antonio who was released by Obama, actually got hired by a defense attorney and STILL was doing multi-kilo deals and THEN compounded his problems by running when the cops tried to arrest him. He placed himself on the federal radar. Again...he deserves every bit of what is coming to him. He was given a second chance and STILL chose to piss it away...

Being in Texas, I see A LOT of drug prosecutions and the outcomes of those cases. Personally, even with more stringent federal prosecution, many of those defendants likely wish they HAD been nabbed by the feds and run through the federal system. Even a kilo of cocaine is enough to get a life sentence at the State level...
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fbopnomore View Post
A full head of steam back to the failed policy of imprisoning everybody, for as long as humanly possible, by embellishing their criminal charges. One drug purchase results in a 25 count indictment that carries mandatory minimum sentences totaling 50 plus years. Why, because our new Attorney General has decided that anyone who uses marijuana, purchased legally or not under State law, is an evil doer who must be punished, severely.

Your bathroom mirror will reveal the truly evil one Jeff.
And don't forget about those gun enhancements that the Feds love. By law, those sentences have to be to "stacked" on top of each other.

Is Junior, a high school senior, selling a little weed out of a sock drawer to his friends? Is there also an unloaded hunting rifle -- a gift from Grandpa, perhaps -- somewhere in the house? If the Feds can show that Junior sold five dime bags ($50 worth) of marijuana on five different days, those gun enhancements mean our boy Junior will be facing a mandatory sentence of over 100 years in federal prison. Think it can't happen? Ask Weldon Angelos. Please see:

http://famm.org/weldon-angelos/
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:39 AM
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And don't forget about those gun enhancements that the Feds love. By law, those sentences have to be to "stacked" on top of each other.

Is Junior, a high school senior, selling a little weed out of a sock drawer to his friends? Is there also an unloaded hunting rifle -- a gift from Grandpa, perhaps -- somewhere in the house? If the Feds can show that Junior sold five dime bags ($50 worth) of marijuana on five different days, those gun enhancements mean our boy Junior will be facing a mandatory sentence of over 100 years in federal prison. Think it can't happen? Ask Weldon Angelos. Please see:

http://famm.org/weldon-angelos/
You do your cause no favor when you deliberately misstate the facts of the cases involving your poster children.

Aside from the fact that it was NOT 'dime bags' but rather half-pound deals on multiple occasions, he ALSO did not receive a triple-digit sentence. It was ALSO not his first involvement with judicial intervention on a firearm...

At just WHAT point do you believe actual consequence should attach to conduct?
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:08 AM
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You do your cause no favor when you deliberately misstate the facts of the cases involving your poster children.

Aside from the fact that it was NOT 'dime bags' but rather half-pound deals on multiple occasions, he ALSO did not receive a triple-digit sentence. It was ALSO not his first involvement with judicial intervention on a firearm...

At just WHAT point do you believe actual consequence should attach to conduct?
You aren't revealing any secrets, Tex. I am well aware of the circumstances and the nature of Weldon Angelos' crimes, which were spelled out all too clearly in the FAMM link that I provided above. That said, and by any reasonable standard, the sentence that Weldon Angelos received was both harsh and unjust.

The scenario mentioned above involving Junior, a fictional character, could very well happen here in Jeff Session's Hang 'Em High America. Junior's mandatory sentence would also be a very unjust sentence. Had Junior been a real defendant and not a fictional character, I suspect that you, a self-righteous law & order type with a fondness for cliches, would be all too quick to point a finger and tell both Junior and the rest of us that "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Isn't that right, Tex?

Hackneyed cliches coupled with simple thinking may satiate some but that sort of thinking rarely makes for sound public policy.

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Old 05-15-2017, 02:36 PM
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Now is the time to get involved if you can. There is a rally tomorrow at the Department of Justice in DC beginning a noon. See the attached flyer.
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File Type: jpg Emergency Rally - Sentencing Project.jpg (69.1 KB, 1 views)
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:15 PM
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Let's remember, they are going to go after low level drug offenders and high level drug offenders in states that have legalized. In MA, apparently you can have something like 5 plants (don't quote me on that, I'm not sure of the number of plants) growing for personal use. We haven't implemented our recreational drug stuff yet, and it took us 3-4 years to really get cooking on the med pot stuff after voting it into law. But, we now have active distributorships and people licensed by the state to consume med pot. We also have policies that do not go after the home user and the home grower within that limit.

Sessions would have federal agents storm in, close down the distributorships and medical grow facilities and charge everybody there. What's holding him back? The state overwhelming voted to legalize med pot and then rec pot. Though I still don't put it past him to start busting things up, costing millions, just because he can and because he thinks pot is so bad.

This administration cannot end fast enough.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:04 PM
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I'm certainly not in favor of "stacked" sentences handed out just to keep minor offenders like street level pushers in prison for decades. My wife is a victim of consecutive sentences (not drug related). That notwithstanding, the Obama regime's lenient treatment and early release of pushers hasn't helped the drug problem a bit. More users are dying than ever. MS-13 and other gangs have armies of violent members who push drugs or pay others to. Perhaps Draconian measures are necessary to save lives.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:58 PM
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Default Rand Paul: Sessions' sentencing plan would ruin lives

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(CNN) The attorney general on Friday made an unfortunate announcement that will impact the lives of millions of Americans: he issued new instructions for prosecutors to charge suspects with the most serious provable offenses, "those that carry the most substantial guidelines sentence, including mandatory minimum sentences."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/15/opinio...ion/index.html

Rand Paul is right.

Pew Research found that 67% of Americans want drug offenders to get treatment, not prison, and over 60% want an end to mandatory minimum sentences.

AG Sessions doesn't speak for the American people. He is an authoritarian busy-body, and he needs to be put in his place.

I concur with Rand Paul that Congress needs to take action to end this injustice, by introducing bipartisan legislation to fix this problem in the law where it should be handled, and tie Sessions' hands down so he can't abuse his discretion any further.
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:09 AM
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Perhaps Draconian measures are necessary to save lives.
Please see the above article/stats. Mandatory minimums do not save lives, it ruins them. Also, mandatory minimums effectively removes a Judges ability to sentence on a case-by-case basis..."one size fits all" has not worked in the past and is rather, well, "draconian" as you put it.

FYI:
Draconian = Excessively harsh and severe.

Excessively = in greater amounts than is necessary.

As far as I'm concerned, when tRump goes (impeached) his entire administration needs to go as well. They all have a hand in setting this country back 100 years Sessions is a moron.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:10 AM
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FAMM reacts to Sessions' memo on stricter sentencing in criminal cases: "It's anything but tough on crime.'

https://www.facebook.com/michaelaper...2285131132285/
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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sYou want to save lives? We know what saves lives and what doesn't.

Naloxone saves lives.

Needle exchange programs save lives.

Legal medical cannabis saves lives, lots of them. States that have legalized have seen a 23% drop in opioid overdose deaths.

Louisiana didn't save any lives at all by putting Dale Wayne Green in Angola for life without parole because he had two priors and introduced an undercover cop to a weed dealer.s
If horrible over-sentencing saved lives we'd know it by now.

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Old 05-16-2017, 10:41 AM
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... and tie Sessions' hands down so he can't abuse his discretion any further.
Could anyone possibly abuse the law and Constitution more often and egregiously than obama, loretta lynch and eric holder?
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:43 AM
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... You want to save lives? We know what saves lives and what doesn't. ... Louisiana didn't save any lives at all by putting Dale Wayne Green in Angola for life without parole because he had two priors and introduced an undercover cop to a weed dealer.s
If horrible over-sentencing saved lives we'd know it by now.
Mandatory death sentences for anyone convicted of dealing drugs a second time would save lives.
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:41 AM
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Could anyone possibly abuse the law and Constitution more often and egregiously than obama, loretta lynch and eric holder?
Yeah, I know. Holder was so mean! Narrowing the disparity between penalties for crack and powder cocaine which directly targeted the African-American community the most.

Clearly we need a racially-neutral guy like Sessions in there to fix things right.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:46 PM
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Yeah, I know. Holder was so mean! Narrowing the disparity between penalties for crack and powder cocaine which directly targeted the African-American community the most.

Clearly we need a racially-neutral guy like Sessions in there to fix things right.
Sessions' record on civil rights has been excellent for more than three decades.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:48 PM
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Sure

B] I think out new U.S. A.G has his money invested in private prisons[/b]

Oh yes. Patrick.Many i know believe exactly that! SMH
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:10 PM
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Mandatory death sentences for anyone convicted of dealing drugs a second time would save lives.
How about second convictions for DUI? Or sexual misconduct? If the theory is preemptive life saving, surely keeping drunk drivers or those who cause psychological harm should be stopped by death? Legal possession of a firearm seems like a sure set-up for someone gettin' killed. Probably should add them to the list.

Death sentences aren't the answer, though, if you're a fan of Draconian tactics, you've surely taken the best path. A 101 course in sociology might do some folks good. But you have to be willing to smell the sh*t on your own knees, first, and realize that substance abuse is home-grown, and in our case government sponsored. All of this "war on drugs" bullshit is dealing with the problem from the ass-end up and makes for lovely propaganda come elections. You want to go after people who sell? Fine. But you're just creating a hyrda-effect because locking up dealers creates less competition for the next guy looking to sling. You're doing them a favor. Locking people away, let alone murdering them, over a social epidemic only creates another scar that we'll be forced to heal. Yay humanity!
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:36 AM
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AG Sessions' memo requires every Assistant US Attorney to have their supervisor sign off on anything anybody considers to be less than the maximum possible charges in every case.

Sure, sign here and pick up your final paycheck on the way out the door.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:00 AM
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miamac; How about second convictions for DUI? Or sexual misconduct?

Drunk drivers, sexual predators and licensed gun owners don't sell poison to kids.

Death sentences aren't the answer, though, if you're a fan of Draconian tactics, you've surely taken the best path. A 101 course in sociology might do some folks good.

Some folks would benefit from a course in history. The Brits made an enormous amount of money promoting and controlling the opium trade in China until the Chinese decided they'd had enough of being poisoned. They evicted the Brit opium dealers, rounded up pushers and executed them. Opium problem solved for the cost of some ammunition.

You want to go after people who sell? Fine. But you're just creating a hyrda-effect because locking up dealers creates less competition for the next guy looking to sling.

Mandatory minimum 20-year sentences for first distributing convictions might convince pushers that the reward isn't worth the risk.

You're doing them a favor.

See my comment above. That's a favor many would want to avoid accepting.

Locking people away, let alone murdering them, over a social epidemic only creates another scar that we'll be forced to heal. Yay humanity!


Leniency has failed spectacularly. Einstein characterized insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The current epidemic of fatal ODs is not a scar I'd prefer to see perpetuated.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:04 PM
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I believe a quick review of PTO's Community Purpose is in order

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PTO Community Purpose
The purpose of the Prison Talk Online community is Prisoner & Family Support, Information and Assistance.
While we encourage interest from people with a range of viewpoints seeking to learn more, anything beyond a genuine, friendly dialog is not welcome.

People who are (or were) involved with the Prison System find that they encounter a wide range of difficulties and challenges.
PTO was founded as a forum to help family members cope with these experiences; through the provision of non-judgmental support and the sharing of information.

PTO is not the place to debate whether or not anyone should be in prison, should prisoners and their families have rights or what kind of punishments should be meted out to the guilty.

We look forward to seeing you posting in the forums and hope that we can help you with any issues that you may be experiencing.
For anyone advocating harsher sentences for only certain (any) classes of offenders, well, while your opinion is valid, PTO may not be the platform for pushing it as many of members and their families would be adversely effected by such sentencing practices and it does not behoove us to debate what kind of punishment should be meted out to the guilty. Sorta like the pot calling the kettle back. No one's loved one is "better" or "worse" than any other member's
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:06 PM
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Some folks would benefit from a course in history. The Brits made an enormous amount of money promoting and controlling the opium trade in China until the Chinese decided they'd had enough of being poisoned. They evicted the Brit opium dealers, rounded up pushers and executed them. Opium problem solved for the cost of some ammunition.

Well, if we were living in 19 century Europe with an opium problem, I'd say sure...give it a shot.

Mandatory minimum 20-year sentences for first distributing convictions might convince pushers that the reward isn't worth the risk.

Nope. You're still failing to recognize the source. You want to blame the dealers. And I get that. But you must recognize (or be willfully ignorant) that people living in communities with very real and present socio-econmic stressors are willing to take more risks because they perceive that they have much less to lose than someone playing armchair politics with all the lights on, their kids fed and a nestegg. On the same note, if the death penalty actually deterred crime...we'd have executed one person and have been done with it.
And...my apologies. I absolutely in no way intended to promote the death sentence-- for anyone. I am staunchly opposed and that was a lapse in judgement. I couldn't take the original suggestion seriously and just ran with its level of farce. That was insensitive and I was wrong.

As far Einstein's theory on insanity-- we HAVE locked drug offenders up for long periods of time and it was, still is, a miserable failure. We are 30 years into the long-arm of harsh sentencing and it has decimated generations. If you don't see that, it's because you chose not to. It also speaks to your privilege because you must not have to. To me? That's insane.
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