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  #26  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:59 PM
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Well, a private attorney can only do so much when you have an eye-witness willing to testify against you, and evidence found on your person. In hindsight, it might have been just as well going with the public defender.

But look at it this way: at least you don't have to register, right?

In quite a few states, the conduct that you were accused of could have very well ended up being a registerable offense, and that would have haunted you for a long while.

So try to count your blessings.

It can definitely be expensive, all those legal fees that we incur trying to mitigate our consequences when we break the law. The only way to avoid that is to just try not to break the law in the first place.
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  #27  
Old 05-02-2017, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SkinnyWhiteGuy View Post
The best thing is he tried to work out a deal with the judge at the last hearing that would have had me plead guilty to endangering the welfare of a minor, an A misdemeanor, for 3 years probation but only 7 days in jail. He told me to go for this.

I declined that as I would rather have the B misdemeanor of public lewdness, 1 year probation, and 30 days jail. He seemed to have gotten insulted that I rejected his recommendation. Guy is a moron to not see how I would have to live with this for a petty 2 weeks extra in jail.
Believe me, my friend, I felt the same way.

On my original felony crime spree, I was originally charged with 3 counts of burglary and 4 counts of grand theft.

My lawyer was able to get everything dropped but the one burglary charge. I was sentenced to 10 years suspended, with a 180-day paramilitary boot camp program to do in its stead. Upon completion, I didn't have to serve any additional prison time, but just complete the remaining 10 years on probation.

I was kind of mad at my lawyer for awhile, because if he could have had me plead to the "lesser" charge of grand theft instead, even though it might have meant up to 14 years on probation (instead of just 10), at least I would have gotten my gun rights restored back automatically afterwards since it wasn't considered a "violent" crime like burglary is.

But in hindsight, it ended up being for the best anyway. Because I ended up violating my probation anyway. Luckily, I was able to get my probation reinstated on the burglary, so that I was completely topped out and done with it by the time I was done with my second felony offense. Otherwise I would have still been on probation (on the original offense) even after I got out the second time.

I don't think you made a bad choice opting to do a little more jail time for only 1 year (instead of 3) of probation. You'll appreciate the early sacrifice you made once that 1-year mark comes up and you are finally off paper. Trust me.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:39 AM
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Believe me, my friend, I felt the same way.

On my original felony crime spree, I was originally charged with 3 counts of burglary and 4 counts of grand theft.

My lawyer was able to get everything dropped but the one burglary charge. I was sentenced to 10 years suspended, with a 180-day paramilitary boot camp program to do in its stead. Upon completion, I didn't have to serve any additional prison time, but just complete the remaining 10 years on probation.

I was kind of mad at my lawyer for awhile, because if he could have had me plead to the "lesser" charge of grand theft instead, even though it might have meant up to 14 years on probation (instead of just 10), at least I would have gotten my gun rights restored back automatically afterwards since it wasn't considered a "violent" crime like burglary is.

But in hindsight, it ended up being for the best anyway. Because I ended up violating my probation anyway. Luckily, I was able to get my probation reinstated on the burglary, so that I was completely topped out and done with it by the time I was done with my second felony offense. Otherwise I would have still been on probation (on the original offense) even after I got out the second time.

I don't think you made a bad choice opting to do a little more jail time for only 1 year (instead of 3) of probation. You'll appreciate the early sacrifice you made once that 1-year mark comes up and you are finally off paper. Trust me.
Exactly, my lawyer who gets pissed if question anything he does, wanted me to plead guilty to an A misdemeanor that even though it would give me 2 weeks less jail time would have me on probation for 3 years. That is 2 years more than my 1 year with the B misdemeanor.

While I don't plan on doing anything stupid It could easily happen and I would face a sentence up to a year in jail now. At least with my B misdemeanor I would only have to face 90 days in jail.

I also have been so restricted with my traveling this last year that it is killing me. Normally I leave the state for the winter. I would go crazy if I got stuck here for 3 years because of probation.

This is why I always do my own research because I can't trust anybody to do anything right. Most people I deal with always make mistakes and seem to be just incompetent. This is for most anyone I deal with in almost all professions.

This is why I was staying on top of my lawyer and he didn't like that. But if I trusted him I would have a far worse sentence.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:42 AM
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Exactly, my lawyer who gets pissed if question anything he does, wanted me to plead guilty to an A misdemeanor that even though it would give me 2 weeks less jail time would have me on probation for 3 years. That is 2 years more than my 1 year with the B misdemeanor.
Yes, one thing about lawyers, is they do tend to try to reduce your jail/prison exposure by any means necessary. What many of them don't realize though, is that there are worse things than jail/prison. And prolonged government supervision on the outs is one of them -- they give you just enough rope to hang yourself.

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While I don't plan on doing anything stupid It could easily happen and I would face a sentence up to a year in jail now. At least with my B misdemeanor I would only have to face 90 days in jail.
Very smart thinking. Even 90 days, in the worst case scenario, really is nothing in the grand scope of things. For those of us who have done even a few years in prison, that's nothing but a short vacation.

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I also have been so restricted with my traveling this last year that it is killing me. Normally I leave the state for the winter. I would go crazy if I got stuck here for 3 years because of probation.
Yup.

Quote:
This is why I always do my own research because I can't trust anybody to do anything right. Most people I deal with always make mistakes and seem to be just incompetent. This is for most anyone I deal with in almost all professions.

This is why I was staying on top of my lawyer and he didn't like that. But if I trusted him I would have a far worse sentence.
Well, the important thing is to learn from this lesson and make sure it is avoided in the future. Don't look at that $5,000 as a "lost waste of money", but rather consider it an investment in teaching you something very valuable -- how to steer a better course in life in the future.

And always keep in mind: whatever doesn't kill us, makes us stronger, right?
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:20 PM
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Uh, you're complaining about the deals when you were the one so terrified of ANY jail time at the start of all of this? read through the thread - if you got your mind around the idea of doing some jail time, perhaps you should have informed your attorney that your goal had changed from avoiding as much jail time as possible to getting the lowest charge, least probation possible.

The usual exchange for less jail time is more probation time.
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  #31  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:32 PM
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Uh, you're complaining about the deals when you were the one so terrified of ANY jail time at the start of all of this? read through the thread - if you got your mind around the idea of doing some jail time, perhaps you should have informed your attorney that your goal had changed from avoiding as much jail time as possible to getting the lowest charge, least probation possible.

The usual exchange for less jail time is more probation time.
Nice catch, .

You are somewhat correct and I thought about this. I was trying to remember my mind frame exactly and how much this influenced my decision.

I was most concerned the first few weeks after my arrest, about a year ago. After most people here said that I would be able to handle a small jail sentence and should be OK, I stopped worrying about it.

I would say if my lawyer came to me after last November or so and told me the deal and told me that the prosecutor is being stubborn and that he spoke with the supvervisor and they don't want to come down, I would have just went through with it.

He had this bright idea for me to go to therapy, but should have told me that may get me just probation.

He really should have told me I would have to serve 16 days of the 30, and only get a year probation.

In February I went in to sit down with him with a trusted family member and told him that I'm willing to do the jail time, he kind of just blew us off.

He kept saying he is going to work it out, but just kept pushing it off and off until the last minute.

The he decided to speak to the boss of the ADA, who also decided not to come down. But he did this only recently, and should have done this early on and tell me the results.

I really think a competent lawyer would have laid out the facts for me right on the spot. The Prosecutor isn't coming down, the ADA's boss said he isn't coming down. If you want to keep your job best to just take the deal.

The counseling did nothing and he had many months to see if it would work. He gave my first progress letter in February and the DA was still not budging after that. So he just kept waiting I guess.

Everytime I called him it was the same run around, nothing new and he would try and reach out to the prosecutor.

How long does it take to talk to the damn assistant district attorney and get updated?

I think he just has so many cases that he doesn't give a shit and just waits and hopes for the best, instead of actively getting involved.

I hope this is a warning to all the people out there to stay involved with the case and make sure you do your own research and run things by other people.

I believe many lawyers are arrogant and think they are smarter than everyone else. This is really a bad way to be in any profession. I personally passed a harder test in my academic field than the lawyer bar exam. Sometimes clients may bring up important points.

Even us criminals are not all that stupid.

Last edited by SkinnyWhiteGuy; 05-02-2017 at 01:35 PM..
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2017, 03:29 PM
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"I believe many lawyers are arrogant and think they are smarter than everyone else."

This applies to people other than lawyers too.

The bottom line is the sentence has been given and all this kvetching does nothing good for you or anybody else.

You broke a law. You got caught. You plead guilty. You got sentenced. You don't like your sentence. The sentence is not going to change.

You can either do your sentence with some dignity & class or you can do it while whining with an attitude. Doesn't matter; you are going to jail.
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:45 PM
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That 'bright idea' to go therapy was ALL about trying to get you a better deal by being able to show you were not a predator. Either you didn't go or you felt you knew better than the provider because otherwise you would have had a far better understanding of WHY they wanted you to go...

If you knew so much better that your attorney, then you should have just represented yourself, especially after disparaging the Bar exam and essentially claiming you know more than the attorney involved with your case.

Enjoy your return to the system since it will inevitably occur. The counseling obviously did nothing in terms of getting you to accept actual responsibility for the conduct that placed you in the position to be in front of the court in the first place...
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  #34  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:27 AM
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a 20 to30 day jail sentence seems like your lawyer did a great job in minimizing your punishment, even though it will be served on Rikers Island. Do your time, get past this trouble, and make sure this will be the only time you ever get caught in the criminal prosecution system.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:19 AM
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Um, you are also forgetting one other big thing that has happened since your arrest - Trump, Sessions, and the total change in guard. There is a trickle down aspect to it that hits the states.

And, you know, you can still back out of the deal, find a different lawyer or represent yourself, and try to get a better deal. It's not like you are locked into this one lawyer who you think is a total idiot. whether he is or not? Dunno. Some clients are very difficult.
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  #36  
Old 05-03-2017, 10:07 AM
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"Some clients are very difficult."

This is true. Some clients think lawyers went to Hogwarts.
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  #37  
Old 05-03-2017, 01:00 PM
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I know what you are going to think, I was being the client from hell.

I would tell you if that was the case. I learned early on he didn't want to be bothered and kept contact at a bare minimum. I'm talking speaking to him less than 3 minutes a month. Sometimes going two months.

He only really talked about stuff for a few minutes after a court hearing.

I shit you not. I was being extra careful around him so he didn't turn spiteful.

At the end when it came down to making a decision on the plea bargain, he was saying stuff like "do what you want to do", and if "you think that is what you want do it" when asking him which made better sense as I was leaning for the public lewdness charge. He wasn't saying anything, I think partially because he knows he fucked up at that point and didn't want to look more like an idiot.

I know what you are probably thinking, I was calling every day, wasting 20 minutes of his time, it wasn't like this at all.

The guy was obviously overworked and taking on way too many clients. He didn't want to be bothered.

This is all going to go into the google and review to helpfully warn others to stay away from him if they don't have a simple case. The google review will be very truthful, I'm not going to slander it one bit. But I am going to let them know what is in store from them after they hire him. The not wanting to spend any time on the case, not wanting to hear how you are innocent, him taking my case personally by telling me I have "mental issues" at the end. Going to warn anyone who has a sex charge to stay away.

I hope it really turns lots of people away because he ruined any chance of getting my job back by his incompetence and not listening to my needs. I don't want him to ruin anyone else like this.
His also incompetence to tell me to plead guilty to an endangering child charge to lessen my jail sentence by a petty two weeks.

I will tell them how he schmoozed me with al this stuff before I hired him, but once he got my money he completely changed and didn't want to be bothered for even 2 minutes. How he never remembered anything about my case and probably spent no more than a few minutes looking it over. He kept repeating the same errors about many things. Just a total incompetent lawyer who thinks he is the shit because he somehow has a name out there but this didn't amount to anything.

Last edited by SkinnyWhiteGuy; 05-03-2017 at 01:08 PM..
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  #38  
Old 05-03-2017, 01:13 PM
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"I hope it really turns lots of people away because he ruined any chance of getting my job back by his incompetence and not listening to my needs."

I disagree - you ruined your chances of getting your job back. You committed a crime, not your lawyer, and your lawyer wasn't there to listen to your needs. He was there to get you the best sentence possible and I think you got off pretty lucky. You got off easier that you were thinking just several months ago!
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2017, 01:17 PM
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"I hope it really turns lots of people away because he ruined any chance of getting my job back by his incompetence and not listening to my needs."

I disagree - you ruined your chances of getting your job back. You committed a crime, not your lawyer, and your lawyer wasn't there to listen to your needs. He was there to get you the best sentence possible and I think you got off pretty lucky. You got off easier that you were thinking just several months ago!
This offer was offered last August or so at my first hearing. 30 days + 1 year probation, and a B misdemanor.

He should have told me then that it was the best offer and to take it. Especially when I was telling him about my city job.

He should have taken maybe two months to try and lower the offer, but wait a whole year??

I agree I screwed up my job, but I had a chance to reapply once I had my final deposition. He never gave me this chance even though I told him I wanted this chance many times.
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:28 PM
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"He should have told me then that it was the best offer and to take it."

How could he know it was the best offer? More than that would you have listened?

All this hind-sight stuff is pointless; you made certain decisions as did the lawyer and the judge.

I think it is time to deal with those decisions and stop bemoaning the past.
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  #41  
Old 05-03-2017, 02:06 PM
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"He should have told me then that it was the best offer and to take it."
The "best offer" differs from client to client. We tell you what the offers are, if they are decent, and you make the decision. We don't make the decision to plead to something for you - it's your ass on the line. You make your own decisions.

3 minutes every 2 months - um, if nothing has changed, then nothing has changed. If there's no discovery or no new discovery, there's no discovery. If there's nothing to discus, there's nothing to discus.

Guess I really should make appointments with my clients - oh, wait, my clients make appointments with me. When that happens, I have just that one client in front of me, not a few clients all going through the same thing. I can address their particular situation, lay everything out, and charge them for it. I can even offer them coffee, something you don't see in the courthouse between status hearings.

How often did you actually call his office and make an appointment to discus?

Dude, you can bitch and moan about the representation you received. You picked the attorney who was associated with your family? or the other one? Doesn't matter - you wanted more time, you should have called the office and made an appointment. A couple of misdemeanors warrants not a whole helluva lot of attention from somebody who 1. doesn't want to serve any time, 2. wants the whole thing done NOW because he just got a job offer, and whatever else was going on with you. The attorney had felonies to deal with - people who, if they were convicted of those felonies had a significant change in their life whether they did a bid in prison or not. You are a first time misdemeanant not risking RSO status.

Look, I get it, you are the nervous sort. It's written all over your posts. You are also something of a control freak, and most people are when confronted with the court system of, "I don't know what's going to happen or when". But you had the option of actually calling and making an appointment. And you have to get it through your head that no decent lawyer is going to tell you option A v. option B. No decent lawyer is going to tell you to wait for a better offer unless they absolutely know that there's a better offer. It's your ass carrying the conviction, and your ass doing the time. It is up to you to "do what you want to do" and that includes finding a different lawyer if you didn't think you could work with this one.
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  #42  
Old 05-03-2017, 02:40 PM
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Just wanted to add something, my lawyer really went low at the end. After I pled guilty and he didn't help me stay out of jail for a misdemanor when I had no criminal record.

My lawyer was acting really pissed at me for what ever reason.

He then even said somthing about "we know you have mental issues". This was really a low comment because we never discussed mental issues or my mental health status before. But to say this based on my criminal charges I just found really low. I don't even know why he said it as I was questioning him about last minute things about my guilty plea and he wanted to throw that in there.

But he will get the google review and I will spend my time in Jail writing this out perfectly to let anyone who searches his name and reads his reviews see the type of guy they will get if they hire him as their lawyer.

He thinks he is untouchable, but this will surely hurt him a lot as many people look at these google reviews and I read them all the time. If I would have read a bad review about him I would have moved on as there was very limited information to go by.

I paid this scum lawyer $5,000 dollars for a misdemeanor case.
Keep in mind it is easier to do one yr of probation and be done,them several years. If you get in trouble on probation, you're going back for a lot longer.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:33 PM
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This offer was offered last August or so at my first hearing. 30 days + 1 year probation, and a B misdemanor.

He should have told me then that it was the best offer and to take it. Especially when I was telling him about my city job.

He should have taken maybe two months to try and lower the offer, but wait a whole year??
For someone that seems to think they know everything about the law and how easy it is, you have NO effing clue about the practice of law, especially when a client is out on bond.

Rare is the instance that an attorney is given an offer that has no chance of getting better as the case dragged on. I cannot begin to tell you how many I have seen where it was essentially an informal probation through a year or two of resets, with the case eventually going away as long as the Defendant stayed out of trouble. But the attorney cannot tell the client to expect that because they don't all work out like that.

Add in that you told your attorney you were scared to spend a few weeks in jail. So he continued to try and get you a deal that would mollify your unfounded fears. Then, when he DOES get a good deal, you bitch and moan. It is the same as a case I am aware of where the family wanted a particular program...the attorney begged and pleaded and finally got the prosecutor and judge on board. The ink was barely dry when the family wanted some other program. The attorney fired the family and defendant as clients...the next attorney kept him out of a program, got him a deferred and then represented the defendant when they violated probation with further drug use just a few months later. Sometimes counsel actually DOES have a view of the big picture...
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:35 PM
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Keep in mind it is easier to do one yr of probation and be done,them several years. If you get in trouble on probation, you're going back for a lot longer.
This is not a correct statement that may be universally applied. MANY people violate terms of probation and are still continued. Some have modified terms, some have extended terms and some remain on the existing terms. Happens every single day on dockets all over the country...

The violation is still subject to due process. That means a hearing at some point in time. Only after that opportunity for a hearing can one know what will occur as a result of a violation...
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:40 PM
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[quote=Nickel Timer;7625464]Yes, one thing about lawyers, is they do tend to try to reduce your jail/prison exposure by any means necessary. What many of them don't realize though, is that there are worse things than jail/prison. And prolonged government supervision on the outs is one of them -- they give you just enough rope to hang yourself.


Do you find it truly better off paper? Will it be easier on my bf once he's home in a couple months and totally done after 7 years of this. He says it kills him and he hates being looked over. Thanks
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:01 PM
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Do you find it truly better off paper? Will it be easier on my bf once he's home in a couple months and totally done after 7 years of this. He says it kills him and he hates being looked over. Thanks
Absolutely, Heather. ABSOLUTELY.

Being on probation/parole is pure hell, depending on what your class of crime is. If your BF is topping out off-paper, he will be able to breathe freely once again.

While he may still find it difficult to find a job as a freshly released felon, at least he won't have a PO actively conspiring against him, trying to get him fired from his new jobs by proactively campaigning against him like some of my POs did against me.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:32 AM
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At this point I'm trying to figure out what the goal of the rant is.

It sounds like you are determined to be a victim of some description. Maybe a victim of the laws, a victim of a lawyer, a victim of a judge, a victim of a bad deal... I don't know what. Maybe all the above.

If you haven't figured this out yet, no one is rallying to your corner with protest signs and pitchforks looking to go mob lawyers and judges. The fact that you have lawyers and judges in your life is by your own doing. They never did anything on their own to meet you.

The deal you don't like is a gift. No one owed you any deal at all. Of any kind. I wish all deals would go away for a year so we'd have that year of no one complaining about getting off easy and still not liking it.

We'd have a year of everyone complaining about no deals, but at least it would all be the same complaint. It might start sounding like a song or something.

So what is the point of the rant? As Safran pointed out, you did it, you got caught, you got all that went with it. What is this thread trying to change or accomplish?

Let's try it this way.

Complete the following sentence.

If I don't whine and moan about the lawyers, judges and bad deal, I won't be able to.... what?
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel Timer View Post
Absolutely, Heather. ABSOLUTELY.

Being on probation/parole is pure hell, depending on what your class of crime is. If your BF is topping out off-paper, he will be able to breathe freely once again.

While he may still find it difficult to find a job as a freshly released felon, at least he won't have a PO actively conspiring against him, trying to get him fired from his new jobs by proactively campaigning against him like some of my POs did against me.
I believe it was grand larceny unarmed. He violated 3xs on prs, 1x wasn't him. The other 2 were drug related and his fault 100%. He just keeps saying i don't get it and to be free completely will change the dynamics somewhat. Less stress, etc. I'm praying he's right. We had our own business and were doing very well. Until he relapsed and was arrested on front lawn of client. We cannot have that so business will have to be handled differently..but he may not have to be dealing with a.job as a felon. Not sure yet how we'll proceed. He needs to be actively sober and clean first. That's going to take time. Thanks again
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