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  #1  
Old 04-06-2017, 08:27 PM
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Default Trump doesn't have the same type of red line for Syria apparently

Looks like he let rip 50+ Tomahawk missiles a short time ago into Syria, where the airbase(s) where the planes took off, and later dropped chemical bombs on part of the population.

This will be 'interesting' with regard to Russia backing Assad. I sure hope some serious thought was put into this... I think everyone learned the hard way what happens when you remove a despot like Saddam and leave a vacuum.

I think Assad is a scum-bag, but you have ISIL (among others) who he's fighting. If Assad were to fall without someone less evil in place to take over.. Well...

Trump Launches cruise missiles into Syria

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(CNN)The United States launched a military strike Thursday on a Syrian government target in retaliation for their chemical weapons attack on civilians earlier in the week. On President Donald Trump's orders, US warships launched between 50-60 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian government airbase where the warplanes that carried out the chemical attacks were based, US officials said.

"Assad choked out the helpless," the President said.
"There can be no dispute that Syria used banned chemical weapons ... and ignored the urging of the UN Security Council," he said during short remarks to reporters at Mar-a-Lago. "The refugee crisis continues to deepen and the region continues to destabilize."
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:41 PM
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Yes!!! ALL eyes are on Russia
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:40 AM
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And All eyes on us...

I'd love to be the bug on the wall tomorrow (today) during the meeting with the Chinese president.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:06 AM
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This is a very concerning development indeed.

If indeed it is true that Assad used chemical weapons (Sarin gas) indiscriminately against civilians, then that is a serious human rights violation that needs to be addressed. But I am also a bit skeptical, after all, the last time the CIA claimed "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq, I think we all know how that turned out...

The main problem I have with going after Assad is that as brutal of a dictator as he is (just like Saddam), he's really been the only force standing in defense of so many of the beleaguered religious minorities in the country, such as the Yazidis and even Orthodox Christians, being slaughtered wholesale by Islamic extremists.

It's not a good situation either way. I just hope there is an "exit strategy" in place if this ever does escalate into full-blown deposing of Assad. Because look how big of a mess Iraq turned out to be after taking out Saddam, without a contingency plan in place.

The United States is very capable and very skilled at destroying other governments. Just not so good at building them back up after...
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:07 AM
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I couldn't agree more..
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:19 AM
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I'm really not liking this development. Scares the hell out of me.

I would have preferred humanitarian aid to the region and to open up immigration of refugees, especially children. Not only would that have been the right thing to do, it would have been a coup in terms of international relationships.

From there, if we needed Assad out, we could have used a drone and gone for the surgical strike. As it stands, we bombed the hell out of an area, killing some civilians, sure, but also killing people who had no choice but to follow orders. The Syrian military isn't optional. Once in the Syrian military, following orders isn't optional. But, hey, lets destroy people who had no choice and the civilians living around the airbase, some property that's easily replaced, thank you Russia, and if there were WMD on the grounds of that airbase, damned tooting the WMD would have been released by our bombing....

And how much did it cost? And how many refugees could have been moved out and settled for the same amount of money? And did we prove that there were no WMDs at that airbase by bombing it (or that we don't give a damned about civilian casualties, either to the bombing or bombing released WMD)?

And then there's Russia. I don't want a war with Russia. You know it won't stay in Syria, and that it will fuel the population of ISIS.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:28 AM
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I think there was virtually no thought put into this airstrike. It goes against Trump's nature to plan. No entry strategy, no middle-ground strategy, no exit strategy.

Terrifying.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:35 AM
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https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/04/05/m...ack/index.html

I'm sorry, but something had to be done. Diplomacy doesn't always work and Assad has been allowed to run amok for too long. He needed to know that if he used WMDs on his own citizens that something was going to be done. We hit the airfield where the sarin attack originated from. We are a world leader, and need to act like one. When America is weak, the world is a much more dangerous place. When we are strong, our allies respect and trust us and our enemies fear us. We need our enemies to fear us. Obama had the red line of using WMDs on the Syrian people and never enforced it. It just got enforced. I believe in President Reagan's peace through strength.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:53 AM
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If that were truly the case, then the Congress would have given Obama the OK to use air strikes. But the Republicans apparently didn't want to give him any chance to do something good and get credit for it.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:37 PM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-...onal-approval/

Other Presidents have used air strikes without a declaration of war. Obama did not meed Congress's approval to strike in response to the use of WMDs... only if he was going to be declaring war. Also, per the article I posted the link to, Congress was notified of the intent to strike within the required time frame.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:48 PM
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Can someone (try to) explain to me why this isn't a United Nations effort and not solely the US? I'm all for supporting and protecting other nations in defense, but our armed forces have to be stretched at all parts of this world at this point.
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:56 PM
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Why is killing people with poison gas a non-no that requires retaliation when killing many more people, including thousands of children, with conventional weapons doesn't? And how will bombing an airfield help bring this horrible war to an end? Nobody admires Assad or his regime, but Syria is an example of what's called a 'wicked problem' - it can't be avoided yet there's also no solution.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:08 PM
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If that were truly the case, then the Congress would have given Obama the OK to use air strikes. But the Republicans apparently didn't want to give him any chance to do something good and get credit for it.
Presidents don't need approval for this. Obama could have done the exact same thing... Or more.. Or less. Same goes for all the drone strikes that escalated under Obama. Personally, I wouldn't want to limit any president at this level of action. Agree with it or not.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:24 PM
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Why is killing people with poison gas a non-no that requires retaliation when killing many more people, including thousands of children, with conventional weapons doesn't? And how will bombing an airfield help bring this horrible war to an end? Nobody admires Assad or his regime, but Syria is an example of what's called a 'wicked problem' - it can't be avoided yet there's also no solution.
I'd rather die by a bullet or a bomb rather than gas... This isn't the gas that has been used to put to death prisoners on DR. This stuff takes torture to an extreme level. Those that don't die often suffer life-long debilitating injuries. IMO, some things are worse than death. Sadly, I think that is why we see action we hadn't previously after they are used..

You sure summed it up well at the end of your post (which I highlighted in the quote). There is no good solution right now. None. It reminds me of the saying: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"... Except, that the "enemy" can be just as bad as "my enemy".

My belief is this strike was to send a message... A big part of which is to let Assad know WW1 era gassing won't go without response... But, at least as much, to put Russia, China and especially North Korea on notice that the Obama era of talking but not acting is... well... over...

The mass-murder of civilians also shouldn't be ignored.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:25 PM
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I'm just so glad we actually did something. The videos I watched were horrendous. I cried harder than I have in years watching them. I can't imagine going through what they are, we are so lucky to live where we do.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:57 PM
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My belief is this strike was to send a message... A big part of which is to let Assad know WW1 era gassing won't go without response... But, at least as much, to put Russia, China and especially North Korea on notice that the Obama era of talking but not acting is... well... over...

The mass-murder of civilians also shouldn't be ignored.
I think you're right about sending a message and I also agree about mass murder of civilians. No one else has seemed interested in standing up for those poor people as well as the 500,000 who have already lost their lives to the Assad regime. I'm glad we finally took the lead and did something to hopefully end the horror.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:40 PM
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Putin is backing Assad. Let's remember this. And, that airfield is back in use by Assad less than 24 hours later. http://www.businessinsider.com/syria...-strike-2017-4

This was a pointless chest pounding by trump, though it's a good thing somebody had the presence of mind to notify Putin who notified Assad, and any WMD that was stored at the airfield was moved before the airstrike. I mean, it would really suck to have sarin pouring out of the airfield, into surrounding neighborhoods to demonstrate that releasing sarin is wrong.

What could have been done? The UN could tighten sanctions on Putin until he quit funding Assad. Assad could have been directly damaged by drone, either targeting him, or taking his version of Mar-a-lago away (Assad has a lot of property in Syria, some just for fun, just like Putin in Russia and trump in the US). We could have offered that $60,000,000 (or even a portion of that) in aid to those children gasping to live as most now have permanent damage, at least of the ones who survived. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thi...ria-2017-04-07. We could change our policy to allow displaced and orphaned children into the US, or at least to send in medical people, medicine, and equipment to the area to actually help the children (and adults) poisoned by Assad.

Somebody should also take a look at trump and others stock purchases and see if anybody violated the SEC laws by buying Raytheon just ahead of the attack.

Btw, enjoy the higher gas prices. I know I'm going to enjoy paying more at the pump for this attack.

And for those of you saying that nobody's doing anything. Make a donation to the White Helmets, or at least watch the documentary. https://www.whitehelmets.org/en. And recognize that Putin's influence in the region is one of the most destabilizing things to hit our modern world.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:36 PM
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Someone tell me why babies dying of gas are different from those dying on the beaches of the Mediterranean...and why it's perfectly OK to bomb them, but not to allow them into our country...oh, that's right, you could hide a bomb in a diaper, couldn't you? If they drown, they can't bomb you.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:53 PM
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Putin is backing Assad. Let's remember this. And, that airfield is back in use by Assad less than 24 hours later. http://www.businessinsider.com/syria...-strike-2017-4

This was a pointless chest pounding by trump, though it's a good thing somebody had the presence of mind to notify Putin who notified Assad, and any WMD that was stored at the airfield was moved before the airstrike. I mean, it would really suck to have sarin pouring out of the airfield, into surrounding neighborhoods to demonstrate that releasing sarin is wrong.

What could have been done? The UN could tighten sanctions on Putin until he quit funding Assad. Assad could have been directly damaged by drone, either targeting him, or taking his version of Mar-a-lago away (Assad has a lot of property in Syria, some just for fun, just like Putin in Russia and trump in the US). We could have offered that $60,000,000 (or even a portion of that) in aid to those children gasping to live as most now have permanent damage, at least of the ones who survived. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thi...ria-2017-04-07. We could change our policy to allow displaced and orphaned children into the US, or at least to send in medical people, medicine, and equipment to the area to actually help the children (and adults) poisoned by Assad.

Somebody should also take a look at trump and others stock purchases and see if anybody violated the SEC laws by buying Raytheon just ahead of the attack.

Btw, enjoy the higher gas prices. I know I'm going to enjoy paying more at the pump for this attack.

And for those of you saying that nobody's doing anything. Make a donation to the White Helmets, or at least watch the documentary. https://www.whitehelmets.org/en. And recognize that Putin's influence in the region is one of the most destabilizing things to hit our modern world.


I find it interesting that you always start the name of Trump with a small “t”. That appears to be your way of disrespecting him and yet you begin the names of Putin and Assad with capitol letters. It seems that you are willing to give them more respect than the President of the United States and knowing what Putin and Assad stand for, I find that appalling.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:21 PM
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I find it interesting that you always start the name of Trump with a small “t”. That appears to be your way of disrespecting him and yet you begin the names of Putin and Assad with capitol letters. It seems that you are willing to give them more respect than the President of the United States and knowing what Putin and Assad stand for, I find that appalling.
Having been to Syria, I know exactly what Assad stands for. Having read Putin's book, I know a bit of how he thinks (or how his ghost writer thinks, but approved by Putin). With suspicion on trump and the election, I have no respect for the man. with the way he fritters away taxpayer money, I have no respect for the man. With the way he's screwing with The United States of America, I have no respect for the man. He's not presidential, he doesn't know how to run the country, and he disrespects the office. Besides that, he took us from a world leader to a joke. Yes, he has access to bombs, and that scares the hell out of me, especially for the people I know in service, many of whom have served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. As somebody who was in service at the time of the Gulf War, and as somebody who knows people who are having their veterans services cut, I find the man appalling.

Good thing there's free speech - I can respect your right to be appalled at the same time I can call him "trump" a name that means "fart" in the UK.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:59 AM
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If that were truly the case, then the Congress would have given Obama the OK to use air strikes. But the Republicans apparently didn't want to give him any chance to do something good and get credit for it.
Obama dropped 26171 bombs last year all across the world.

That wasn't enough for you?
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:29 PM
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With suspicion on trump and the election, I have no respect for the man. with the way he fritters away taxpayer money, I have no respect for the man. With the way he's screwing with The United States of America, I have no respect for the man. He's not presidential, he doesn't know how to run the country, and he disrespects the office.
In comparison to...? Oh yeah, the previous POTUS, Obama. Uh, how many TRILLIONS of dollars has Trump wasted? Oh, and the ban on travel for some countries, I forgot about that. You know, the same one that Obama did, but that’s ok because everyone knows how awesome and beautiful Barack “the new Jesus Christ” Obama is. Was. Never was. Pffff. Oh well.

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Besides that, he took us from a world leader to a joke.
In comparison to a POTUS that was going around the world apologizing to countries and bowing down to other countries leaders...? Riiiiight.

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Yes, he has access to bombs, and that scares the hell out of me, especially for the people I know in service, many of whom have served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. As somebody who was in service at the time of the Gulf War, and as somebody who knows people who are having their veterans services cut, I find the man appalling.
Good. I question when where and who you served. Because I served as well. I have an honorable discharge as well. AND if you ever paid any attention to what is taught in BCT you would know that there are so many checks and balances that even some dippy nut job like Obama can’t go declare nuclear war by himself.

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Good thing there's free speech - I can respect your right to be appalled at the same time I can call him "trump" a name that means "fart" in the UK.
If you cannot respect the man, respect the office he holds.

As much as I am a Republican, I really have little quarrel with Obama’s work. OTOH, contrary to the DNC, I prefer working with people AFTER the election is over, not picking groundless fights that do nothing more than waste everybodies time and energy. I am a Republican, but more than that I am an American that is in the politics game because I love my country, moreso than I love my party.

I only wish that someone with your fire and intelligence agreed and worked with U.S., instead of against U.S.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:25 PM
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Oh my. This is kind of an old post being replied to.

Is everything okay with you, cornered? (Other than your pending case, I mean... I know how stressful the waiting game can be.)
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:13 AM
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Nickel, if you saw the details on the crap I have to deal with in this case, even you would be asking "WTF?"
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:41 AM
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Nickel, if you saw the details on the crap I have to deal with in this case, even you would be asking "WTF?"
I don't doubt, my friend. From what all you've described so far, it does sound like a bum rap.

I hope you are able to beat your case, or at least get your charge reduced down to a misdemeanor or something.
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Guardian Comment:Now Syria is at the top of the bad guys' league table titantoo World Prison News 0 02-25-2005 10:50 AM


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