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Old 08-16-2016, 08:59 AM
WaitingWilkes WaitingWilkes is offline
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Default How would you feel if your LO had a sexual relationship with another inmate

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Old 08-16-2016, 09:11 AM
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Your LO has probably mentioned fellow prisoners who are gay or "gay for the stay/straight for the gate". How would you about feel about it if she had a sexual relationship with someone inside. Would you want her to tell you if she did? Would it change the way you feel about her? Would it change your relationship or what you expect from/with her after she gets out?
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:01 PM
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She's allowed. I made this pretty clear early on. There are certain needs that I can't meet, and we have limits on how much we can speak, so she's green-lit to find whatever comfort is necessary in there. It does not change our relationship, talking about the situation actually has strengthened it, and as for once she gets out, she understands that staying with me or not is a choice so we'll do what's best for us. I love her, we've made a commitment to each other, but I don't feel I "own" her or that she "owes" me. Whatever is going on with her in there, that's up to her. We talk. In our case it brings us closer together which strikes some people as odd, but I always counter with the bit about I can't meet those needs and, in another sense, it gives her a freedom to express herself and have emotional support and intimacy and in a way discover more about herself.

There are some things in life that are beyond my control. Why fight them? I've taken an area of possible static and turned it into a place of comfort and understanding. I think to have done otherwise would have ruined the relationship a long time ago.

-E
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:05 PM
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She's allowed. I made this pretty clear early on. There are certain needs that I can't meet, and we have limits on how much we can speak, so she's green-lit to find whatever comfort is necessary in there. It does not change our relationship, talking about the situation actually has strengthened it, and as for once she gets out, she understands that staying with me or not is a choice so we'll do what's best for us. I love her, we've made a commitment to each other, but I don't feel I "own" her or that she "owes" me. Whatever is going on with her in there, that's up to her. We talk. In our case it brings us closer together which strikes some people as odd, but I always counter with the bit about I can't meet those needs and, in another sense, it gives her a freedom to express herself and have emotional support and intimacy and in a way discover more about herself.

There are some things in life that are beyond my control. Why fight them? I've taken an area of possible static and turned it into a place of comfort and understanding. I think to have done otherwise would have ruined the relationship a long time ago.

-E
You and I think alike and our relationships with our ladies is similar, except Tammy is the one who suggested that I date. Similarly, "talking about the situation actually has strengthened [the relationship]," holds for us as well. I'm careful not to rub her nose in it or make her feel threatened when we talk about it. It was hard for her to handle in the beginning but she's OK with it now. In fact, she's interested in ALL the details.

Dee's lucky you're mature enough to let her be herself without complaint. I'd reciprocate with Tammy if she told me she found someone she especially likes. I'd worry if she gt into a sexual relationship, though. We'd be in a real mess if she got caught and lost visits, phone, etc. I'd also worry that she might get hurt if she fell in love with the other woman and something happened, which, judging by what she's told me about the drama inside, always eventually does to couples there.

Our SOs are subject rules unlike those they lived by before, written and unwritten, official and "understood." Different skills and outlooks are required of them, even if only to establish "protective coloration." Judging them by the rules we have out here would be totally unfair to them. They have a right to do what they need to do.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:20 PM
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I sometimes confuse the use of "SO" (which elsewhere stands for Significant Other) for LO, which means essentially the same thing here. I realize that's confusing. I'll do my best to use LO except when I actually mean Sex Offender.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:56 PM
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Well in my case my LO is my husband and I would absolutely not be OK with him have sexual relations with another inmate if you know what I mean. He's a straight man who has never been gay for the stay so to speak. And I'm definitely not OK with him having sex with any female either. In the past when he was single he did have a sexual relationship with the rec...lady and she was married with three kids. What a pig. She turned out to be his parole officer and it continued until I met him and then he brought me to her office once and she was pissed. Let's just say we requested a transfer immediately so she wouldn't purposely violate him. I don't think men should be allowed to work in a female prison or vice versa .....only at the front desk where they check in people is about it.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:03 PM
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Well in my case my LO is my husband and I would absolutely not be OK with him have sexual relations with another inmate if you know what I mean. He's a straight man who has never been gay for the stay so to speak. And I'm definitely not OK with him having sex with any female either. In the past when he was single he did have a sexual relationship with the rec...lady and she was married with three kids. What a pig. She turned out to be his parole officer and it continued until I met him and then he brought me to her office once and she was pissed. Let's just say we requested a transfer immediately so she wouldn't purposely violate him. I don't think men should be allowed to work in a female prison or vice versa .....only at the front desk where they check in people is about it.
When my man was in Rikers Island he used to have sex with the female cos and he also used to have sex at Fishkill Correctional - he even had something going on with a co at the county jail.. Smh...we weren't together but he went back to the county when he caught his violation and the co would always give me dirty looks. His time is WAY too short for me to be ok with him messing around.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:59 PM
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I guess it comes down to each case being different. In Dee's case, I had a certain understanding of what she was like, what her marriage had been like, made some observations about her, noticed how she was with females and how females were toward her even before she got locked up. As soon as it became apparent she was going to be down a while I spoke up and said it was okay. And she said "no way, I'm not interested in women." I looked at her, laughed and said "but they're interested in you, and you like the attention. Eventually, it's going to happen. And it doesn't mean you aren't straight out here, but you gotta understand, it's different in there in all regards, that one included."

I think it would have been harder for me as an MBI if what I knew her to be before she went in was timid, non-flirtatious, avoidant of women.....Dee tends to welcome the attention, and her body language toward other women she was locked up with was welcoming when I saw her with them in visiting (since they'd line us up 10 to a row in County and then again in the visiting room once she got to State Prison.)

So I decided not to fight it. Eventually things did happen and we dealt with that when it came up and basically because of my approach I took what was an embarrassing thing for her to admit and something that had her questioning a lot of things about herself, her sexuality, her ability to remain faithful, etc. into something much more positive. I won't go into all the various specifics, but I will say one of her "buddies" and I actually became pretty good friends. She was very respectful of me, actually very apologetic, and very shocked when I said "it's cool, I know, but thank you for being honest about it, that means something to me."

By no means do I think this would work for everyone. But it works for us. And I think that it's a big part of why we have a lot of positive momentum and a strong commitment as she gets ready to come home.

-E
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:57 PM
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My husband and I each knew from jump the quickest way to divorce was to step out on the other. Period end of story, no oops, no I was drunk, no buts- sorry it was a deal breaker.
It wasn't any problem at all for either one of us.
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Old 08-16-2016, 06:09 PM
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My husband and I stick with our vows and I'm not worried one bit that he would ever cheat on me. His past is his past. And mine is mine. Everyone has a different relationship and even if he had ten years I wouldn't cheat ever and I know he would do the same. Sex is sex true but when your in love with someone you can go without long enough until you can be with that person.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:08 PM
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She's allowed. I made this pretty clear early on. There are certain needs that I can't meet, and we have limits on how much we can speak, so she's green-lit to find whatever comfort is necessary in there. It does not change our relationship, talking about the situation actually has strengthened it, and as for once she gets out, she understands that staying with me or not is a choice so we'll do what's best for us. I love her, we've made a commitment to each other, but I don't feel I "own" her or that she "owes" me. Whatever is going on with her in there, that's up to her. We talk. In our case it brings us closer together which strikes some people as odd, but I always counter with the bit about I can't meet those needs and, in another sense, it gives her a freedom to express herself and have emotional support and intimacy and in a way discover more about herself.

There are some things in life that are beyond my control. Why fight them? I've taken an area of possible static and turned it into a place of comfort and understanding. I think to have done otherwise would have ruined the relationship a long time ago.

-E
That is exactly how I see it. Women are different from men and once they are behind the walls, all of the rules go out the window. Sexuality in women's prisons is unique to each facility. Even within the same DOC system. But one thing holds true, the vast majority of women engage in affairs behind the wire. Even if they are married.

While it is true that there are some who will not engage (about 20%), even a certain percentage of those women will do so if their sentence is long enough. This is where the term "gay for the stay" originates. As the population is only about 1.5 to 2% homosexual from the outside, they resent the straight women who turn stud inside and drain attention away from them while they are down. The woman who told me that was one such person who wasn't too happy about the situation, but she then laughed and told me that prison was a lesbian's paradise because nearly all women were gay inside.

In her opinion, even conjugal visits wouldn't make a dent in the sex going on inside a women's prison. The girls would be with their husbands and then come right back to their lover inside. That's because it is more than just a physical need being met, and because she is spending the vast majority of her time with women and not her man. That's the reality of the situation.

My lady has been down for 21 years and has the rest of her life to go. How could I deny her another's touch? Especially as I can never be there for her in that way. We don't discuss it, but I would never condemn her for seeking another woman to share herself with. That would be the height of selfishness in my estimation. Even if she had a release date, I don't think that I would see it any differently.

I only get to speak with her for forty minutes a week and I only get to visit with her for an hour and a half each month. Aside from emails and letters, that's it. So about four hours a month is all that she and I can get to spend together, not counting the letters and email. That isn't a lot of time. So is it really any wonder that so many seek companionship inside? But even that is chaotic.

The prison staff breaks up couples inside, snitches also see to it that there is little longevity to relationships. Love between women is fleeting and frenzied as couples are broken up and separated only to reform with someone new in another dorm. In that environment, emotions are extremely intense and women are dated and bedded quickly. Another inmate said that love in prison sucks for those very reasons. Is it any wonder that stability is the one thing in short supply behind bars?

These are the things that nobody wants to talk about because they would rather not know. There is very little romance in the sex that takes place inside. You have to arrange a look out, you have to arrange a time and place, you have to warm up beforehand, and then get it on with your lover. And last, but not least, you generally only have 3 to 5 minutes to complete the act. It's a lot different from how it's shown in the movies.

From my point of view, I choose to accept and understand what my woman has to deal with. I would much rather she be comforted and cared for inside rather than to be miserable and alone. Love isn't selfish and it isn't about the one who loves. It is about the one who is loved and what is best for them. That's my two cents worth.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:45 AM
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I'll point out that it's interesting....not just here but on other threads......women almost unanimously are opposed to their men being involved sexually with another inmate. Men on the other hand seem to be more permissive of it. Now, I personally am not stepping out. Others do have permission.

I am not sure why there's a gender difference exactly. I don't think it's an issue of us men being "dogs" so to speak because clearly we are all very much in love with and very supportive of our women. I was having a terrible day today and 15 minutes on the phone with Dee completely lit up my world. We are a team in all regards except one right now and that's going to cease to be an issue in exactly 4 months (and a few hours.)

Anyone have any thoughts on the gender gap?

-E
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:05 AM
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I think it personally would bother me. Not so much because he was being sexually involved with another inmate but because of the safety issue since there is no protection. Just to many consequences with STDs if he engaged in sexual acts with another inmate.

We have discussed things like this before and he made it clear there was no chance in hell he would swing that way. I believe he holds strong to those words but I would never pass judgement on him if he ever did something like that.

Interestingly during the conversation he did give me permission to sleep with women if I felt the need to have my urges satisfied. I have declined on that option and told him I would stay faithful to him as he stays faithful to me.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:35 AM
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We have talked about it and neither of us are ok with the other being with other people. She only has about 17 mo left so if she cant be without anyone in that time then why are we even trying. She knows she has way more important things to worry about then hooking up like figuring out how to live life sober and get a strong foundation under her now so when she actually has freedom she doesnt end up back there. I can say so far I am very proud of her and can tell a big change. She is into her bible and NA book and those are steps enough in the right direction to give hope.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:08 AM
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I'll point out that it's interesting....not just here but on other threads......women almost unanimously are opposed to their men being involved sexually with another inmate. Men on the other hand seem to be more permissive of it. Now, I personally am not stepping out. Others do have permission.

I am not sure why there's a gender difference exactly. I don't think it's an issue of us men being "dogs" so to speak because clearly we are all very much in love with and very supportive of our women. I was having a terrible day today and 15 minutes on the phone with Dee completely lit up my world. We are a team in all regards except one right now and that's going to cease to be an issue in exactly 4 months (and a few hours.)

Anyone have any thoughts on the gender gap?

-E
If I had to call it, I would say that the difference is biological rather than cultural or psychological. Women only have one egg, men have a heck of a lot of sperm. Add in that for a woman, sex is never just sex. Every time that a woman engages in a sexual act with another (male or female), her body releases hormones that bond her to that person. This happens whether she wants it to or not. Therefore, the more sexual contact with that individual, the greater the bond.

These things tend to play in the psychology. So she is more likely to be opposed to her mate indulging with someone other than herself because of that experience. After all, we do tend to see the world through our own experience of it. It isn't really selfish, because she was programmed that way by nature in order to protect her relationship. Remember, there was a time when not having a man would greatly affect a woman's ability to survive. Men not so much.

Because we produce sperm in abundance, we try to spread it around. So nature didn't install as strong a bonding system in us as it did the women in regard to sex. If it did, we wouldn't try to disseminate our genes so widely. Therefore, we tend to take a more liberal view of the matter. Another likely component is the sexual interest that men express with women who engage in lesbian sex. For a lot of men, that isn't seen as a detractor.

That's not to say that men are as supportive of their mates sleeping with other men. Far from it. For that we return to biology. If you are cuckolded, you don't really know if your kids are your own or belong to another man. So we tend to get sporty about it. So while it is mostly alright for our women to engage with other women, it is definitely not alright for them to do so with other men.

Of course, there are a great many variances, but I think that those are the broad strokes.

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Old 08-17-2016, 09:19 AM
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WHAT?? (on the 80+% statistic of women having sex in prison). That's just simply not true. Sex on the inside is NOT an unyielding need that cannot be controlled. It takes a certain persuasion and personality, and is the minority.

None-the-less the difference between gender attitudes and the partner stepping out is prevalent on the outside too. I ponder if it's because women and lesbianism is not taken as seriously?

You'd be hard pressed to find any woman anywhere that is going to ok with their man sleeping with other men on the side. However many men will agree to it the other way, even believing that agreeing might be the right thing to do.

I am open to both genders and it is common that upon a male partner finding this out, to offer to allow me simultaneous leverage. It's not a very smart assumption in my opinion, as splitting up intimacy with my male partner is the same no matter who it is. My genuine bisexuality allows me genuine feelings towards the other person, including females. So I CAN leave someone over it. I'm often surprised of the lackadaisical attitude towards me being with the opposite sex as if its non-infringing and just "not that serious". But so be it. I always choose NOT to take advantage of it and to preserve the bond with my original partner. This took some maturity - when I was younger I was a lot more apt to take the opportunity, knowing they didn't have a clear understanding of my sexuality.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:38 AM
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"WHAT?? (on the 80+% statistic of women having sex in prison). That's just simply not true. Sex on the inside is NOT an unyielding need that cannot be controlled. It takes a certain persuasion and personality, and is the minority."

Not according to the woman who served nearly 20 years with whom I had the conversation. She was very frank and open about her experiences. Also, I did point out that each facility was unique in it's sexuality, and while the number will not always be 80%, it is never the less high.

One inmate even said that if they didn't test for STD's and separate out the women that had them, the place would be overrun by them from inmates passing it to each other. Another indicator that sex is rampant behind the wire is the fact that people trade canteen and not sexual favors for things. If you want special treatment from a CO, that's a different story.

Another factor that makes sex so prevalent behind the wire is boredom. You don't get a lot of diversion in prison. But you do have a lot of time on your hands and it doesn't take long for you to start looking for something to do. That helps to drive sex as something to break up the monotony of the day. As for sex being an all consuming need, for most people it isn't. But we do need touch, we do need to be loved, and we do need to be cared about. That is the primary motivation for the sex, not personal gratification. If that was all there was to it, then masturbation would suffice.

Unless and until we begin to speak openly and honestly about what goes on inside, we will never truly understand it or the experiences of those that we love.

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Old 08-17-2016, 10:15 AM
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Yes let's openly speak about what goes on behind the prison walls, especially when one has not been a woman behind prison walls. I didn't just speak to one woman who regaled tales to me. Mine comes from personal experience. 80% and your postulations about how women's prison is, is absolutely ridiculous!!

Most people/women are straight. Are you? If so, do you just start having sex with men when you are bored? I have no idea who you were talking to nor what their angle was, but I wouldn't continue to put much stock into it. I'm telling you, 80% of women having sex in there is ridiculous and far from the truth!! What do you think? That some orgy is occurring? haha.

You're also misinformed about women and STDs. It's a lot more difficult to obtain STDs from lesbian contact. Your idea about lesbian STDs running rampant and having to take emergency quarantine tactics is also ridiculous. How would that work if it was a continuous 80% of the population? Think here. They don't quarantine people with STDs, they treat them. Only back in the day did they separate people with HIV. I'm sorry but the vision you were given is just not accurate. The excuse that "every facility is different" does not make it accurate - only a possible anomaly - but not a likely aspect.

BTW, in all my years of lock-up, AND actually being of that persuasion, I have never had any sexual contact with an inmate. Why? Because I wasn't attracted to any. I don't know if you are aware of this, but many of the women have been through some "hard-living" and education background is always low. It's just not my type. So this idea that women can't help themselves and have an unyielding desire, and vacuous hole, to desperately have intimacy or contact, is total hogwash. Plainly put, prison is a turn-off. And if you weren't of that persuasion before, you don't turn. You have to have an inclination beforehand. Otherwise it's not going to interest you (which establishes most of the population). You don't HAVE to do this. And yes, self service does suffice when you just need to take care of business.
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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Yes let's openly speak about what goes on behind the prison walls, especially when one has not been a woman behind prison walls. I didn't just speak to one woman who regaled tales to me. Mine comes from personal experience. 80% and your postulations about how women's prison is, is absolutely ridiculous!!

Most people/women are straight. Are you? If so, do you just start having sex with men when you are bored? I have no idea who you were talking to nor what their angle was, but I wouldn't continue to put much stock into it. I'm telling you, 80% of women having sex in there is ridiculous and far from the truth!! What do you think? That some orgy is occurring? haha.

You're also misinformed about women and STDs. It's a lot more difficult to obtain STDs from lesbian contact. Your idea about lesbian STDs running rampant and having to take emergency quarantine tactics is also ridiculous. How would that work if it was a continuous 80% of the population? Think here. They don't quarantine people with STDs, they treat them. Only back in the day did they separate people with HIV. I'm sorry but the vision you were given is just not accurate. The excuse that "every facility is different" does not make it accurate - only a possible anomaly - but not a likely aspect.

BTW, in all my years of lock-up, AND actually being of that persuasion, I have never had any sexual contact with an inmate. Why? Because I wasn't attracted to any. I don't know if you are aware of this, but many of the women have been through some "hard-living" and education background is always low. It's just not my type. So this idea that women can't help themselves and have an unyielding desire, and vacuous hole, to desperately have intimacy or contact, is total hogwash. Plainly put, prison is a turn-off. And if you weren't of that persuasion before, you don't turn. You have to have an inclination beforehand. Otherwise it's not going to interest you (which establishes most of the population). You don't HAVE to do this. And yes, self service does suffice when you just need to take care of business.
Thank you for your input Tawny, it's truly appreciated.

I think with a lot of us men, we get a small sample paradigm of a womens' prison. Dee has primarily been at two different prisons as well as spending time at two county jails. She's been very open in terms of communicating with me about her own situation as well as, to the extent she can, life in there. What I get the sense of is that of the two prisons she's been at, the one where she was involved with other women housed women two to a cell (and her relationships tended to be with bunkmates) and the current one, where she says there is much much MUCH less inmate-on-inmate action, houses 6 or 8 to a cell leaving far fewer opportunities for privacy. I thought that was interesting....I'm not sure what your experiences were exactly as far as how the women were housed.

To sexual orientation.....while Dee never professed to being bisexual before prison, there were some things I saw in her interactions with other women and the way she'd talk about them as far as attractiveness that did make me wonder. In talking now she says that she had found herself attracted to women before but never acted on it. She emphasizes that she prefers men...the way she put it to me was basically "I think women are fun, but it's like scratching an itch for the moment." What's also interesting is that her in-prison persona is very masculine (which kind of matches the "criminal persona" she had out here) and she tends to be very dominant in the relationships, where with me she's generally very feminine. Where she is masculine culturally speaking (she's from a Mexican family) is that while her family tends to be a place where the men are very much in charge, she always wants to be "at the table" so to speak, involved in the decisions, doing business. She's more a breadwinner than a home keeper.

So does this mean she's actually a full-on bisexual? I don't know. Dee is, in many ways, the most interesting woman I've ever met. That has come with some quirks in her personality that aren't typically feminine...she's just this delicious mix of different personality traits. She's capable of being incredibly strong. She can take charge. Then other times she just wants to surrender and be cared for.

I guess....I'm not in love with her because of sex or sexuality. I'm in love with her because with her things are always interesting, never boring. She has a lot of the same priorities I do when healthy and free (family is big for her, business is something we're both very interested in.) And mostly....we've just stuck it out with one another through thick and thin. Things haven't always been perfect. But we've both grown. And we've grown together. I'm not saying I'd be tolerant of her sleeping with other people once she's free (and she's expressed....I'm enough, she wants to get married and as she put it "once that's happened, 100%, that's it, lockdown for both of us, you're enough for me. I already had one marriage fail. I don't want this one to go that route.") But.....I don't know. I'm a weird person in some ways. I believe that love is fluid and people are fluid and things happen...you deal with them as they come about.

As for statistics....I don't know what the real percentage of women who are engaging in sexual relationships is, whether with other inmates or with staff/guards. I'm sure it's higher than I think but I don't think it's like some massive lesbian slumber party in there, either. Different prisons probably have varying levels of inmate-on-inmate sexual activity as well partly because of access to privacy (I already mentioned the difference between the two prisons Dee's been at.)

Anyway, thank you, Tawny, for providing your own insights from your own experience and for taking the time to post it up for us. It is very much appreciated.

-E
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:42 PM
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"WHAT?? (on the 80+% statistic of women having sex in prison). That's just simply not true. Sex on the inside is NOT an unyielding need that cannot be controlled. It takes a certain persuasion and personality, and is the minority."

Not according to the woman who served nearly 20 years with whom I had the conversation. She was very frank and open about her experiences. Also, I did point out that each facility was unique in it's sexuality, and while the number will not always be 80%, it is never the less high.

One inmate even said that if they didn't test for STD's and separate out the women that had them, the place would be overrun by them from inmates passing it to each other. Another indicator that sex is rampant behind the wire is the fact that people trade canteen and not sexual favors for things. If you want special treatment from a CO, that's a different story.

Another factor that makes sex so prevalent behind the wire is boredom. You don't get a lot of diversion in prison. But you do have a lot of time on your hands and it doesn't take long for you to start looking for something to do. That helps to drive sex as something to break up the monotony of the day. As for sex being an all consuming need, for most people it isn't. But we do need touch, we do need to be loved, and we do need to be cared about. That is the primary motivation for the sex, not personal gratification. If that was all there was to it, then masturbation would suffice.

Unless and until we begin to speak openly and honestly about what goes on inside, we will never truly understand it or the experiences of those that we love.
Where are you getting your statistics from? 80% of women are involved in lesbian relationships whilst incarcerated and 20% are not. Did you just pluck these figures out of the air to back up your speculation? No of course you didnt you got the figures from just one conversation with a woman "who knows!"

Well I am sure that makes you an expert and you can talk "openly and honestly", about the subject and make up statistics to back you up.

In this thread there are tales of Straight women becoming studs, women discovering themselves,women who cant help themselves, women who have sex with other women because they are bored, sex for canteen anyone reading it would be forgiven for thinking there are rampant mass orgies in in womens prisons. All this written by men.

This isnt open and honest discussion its sensationalism with a hint of school boy sexual fantasy.

Women are not quarantined if they have an STD as others have said they are treated , usually with antibiotics we are not in the dark ages and having an STD is not a reason for segregation.

Women are capable of keeping marriage vows, celibacy and loyalty to their partners.

Some may chose to have sexual relationships whilst incarcerated as do some men. However to suggest that it is inevitable and it is 80% is nonsense.

We have members come here who are facing prison terms and they look for reassurance and advice. They are scared frightened and want to do there time peacefully and keep strong ties with families.

This kind of sensationalism backed up by imaginary statistics is not helpful.
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  #21  
Old 08-17-2016, 01:15 PM
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Where are you getting your statistics from? 80% of women are involved in lesbian relationships whilst incarcerated and 20% are not. Did you just pluck these figures out of the air to back up your speculation? No of course you didnt you got the figures from just one conversation with a woman "who knows!"

Well I am sure that makes you an expert and you can talk "openly and honestly", about the subject and make up statistics to back you up.

In this thread there are tales of Straight women becoming studs, women discovering themselves,women who cant help themselves, women who have sex with other women because they are bored, sex for canteen anyone reading it would be forgiven for thinking there are rampant mass orgies in in womens prisons. All this written by men.

This isnt open and honest discussion its sensationalism with a hint of school boy sexual fantasy.

Women are not quarantined if they have an STD as others have said they are treated , usually with antibiotics we are not in the dark ages and having an STD is not a reason for segregation.

Women are capable of keeping marriage vows, celibacy and loyalty to their partners.

Some may chose to have sexual relationships whilst incarcerated as do some men. However to suggest that it is inevitable and it is 80% is nonsense.

We have members come here who are facing prison terms and they look for reassurance and advice. They are scared frightened and want to do there time peacefully and keep strong ties with families.

This kind of sensationalism backed up by imaginary statistics is not helpful.
I'm trying to give an honest portrayal of what Dee has been through and what I have been through and what we've discussed. I apologize if my earlier comment about "discovering herself" came across as referring to a situation that's entirely sexual. If I could broaden the context.....the entire prison experience has been a constant case of Dee trying to figure out who she is. Not so much in terms of her sexual orientation, though yes, that was something she had some confusion about when things started happening. But in terms of her identity. Prison's also been a place where she finally identified herself as an addict, where she finally came to the conclusion that her mental health issues were real, and where she's made a lot of self-discovery as far as what's important to her as far as family, friends, and the life she wants to lead going forward.

So again, I apologize if I put my comment in a context that was about sex and sexuality.....the forum's been a bit charged up about this topic the last couple of days. There is a much broader context to Dee's "self-discovery" or "finding herself" than simply what she is or isn't doing with other women in her free time. In a broader sense I'm very proud of her for what she has accomplished. Sobriety. A stronger bond with her family that will hopefully continue to grow. And a few things about her personally that I can't really disclose (it'd give away too much of her identity and she's asked that I keep this particular bit of information to myself which is unfortunate because it is a very key piece to her life,) but in short...answers to questions she had about herself that were a bit traumatic to deal with. So for her self-discovery has been a whole-person experience, not just an issue of sexual orientation and not just related to these relationships.

I also, if I may, would like to make a point...there are a lot fewer of us men out here than there are women and a lot of the resources and support is geared toward women who have male partners in prison, not the other way around. I'm not saying this is virgin territory by any means, but it's much less discussed, and further, it seems like fewer men stick around here once their LOs get out or once the relationship is over. If I try to Google information about "prison husbands" I get, almost exclusively, information about women with husbands in prison. There's less research on us. There's a lot fewer of us talking. And a lot of the support we do wind up getting comes from you ladies who have been incredibly generous with your time and support trying to guide us along. We have many similarities. We have some differences. It's just difficult, as a man, to be able to have these sorts of discussions with other men. There are only a few who can actually relate. My friends can't relate.

Giving a small hint to my own identity....I attended U.C. Irvine in the mid-'00's and studied Sociology. One of my professors, Rebecca Trammell (who subsequently moved on to Nebraska and now teaches at Metropolitain State University of Denver) did quite a bit of research into female inmates. Honestly I would have kept in better contact with her if I knew at the time I was about 5 years away from beginning a relationship with a woman who'd wind up doing prison time, but it is what it is. But what she talked about back then in our methods class when discussing the work she was doing with incarcerated individuals and incarcerated women in particular is how little research there actually was into female populations. Most of the academic work was into the men. She pointed out there are some definite discrepencies between the women and the men in terms of what they go through and how prison treats them. She did not, however, state that 80% of them are lesbians, "gay for the stay" or otherwise. She talked about how women tended more toward creating family units and how women tended to be more openly intimate in the prison setting than men, but she discussed these as coping/survival mechanisms, not healthy sexual relationships or romantic partnerships. She believed, at least at that time, that the institution did not lend itself to the ability to establish healthy partnerships. (Edit* By the way, this observation by my professor is somewhat consistent, at minimum, with what Tawny said about her own experience as an inmate.)

I've definitely observed some of what the professor saw on my visits and heard Dee describe some of it. But her research never addressed the relationships that female inmates maintain with the outside world, or anything of that nature.

So again...my apologies. There is nothing "fantasy" to me about prison or about this relationship. Prison's a terrible place, regardless of if you're a man or a woman, and these relationships are not easy to maintain, even when they mean so much. If I've come off at all like I feel otherwise, then I certainly have not intended it.

-E
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:13 PM
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Well in my case my LO is my husband and I would absolutely not be OK with him have sexual relations with another inmate if you know what I mean. He's a straight man who has never been gay for the stay so to speak. And I'm definitely not OK with him having sex with any female either. In the past when he was single he did have a sexual relationship with the rec...lady and she was married with three kids. What a pig. She turned out to be his parole officer and it continued until I met him and then he brought me to her office once and she was pissed. Let's just say we requested a transfer immediately so she wouldn't purposely violate him. I don't think men should be allowed to work in a female prison or vice versa .....only at the front desk where they check in people is about it.
I have mixed feelings about opposite gender correctional staffs. There's one proven benefit, though. Men's prisons employing female COs have fewer incidents of violence according to a credible study.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:21 PM
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I guess it comes down to each case being different. In Dee's case, I had a certain understanding of what she was like, what her marriage had been like, made some observations about her, noticed how she was with females and how females were toward her even before she got locked up. As soon as it became apparent she was going to be down a while I spoke up and said it was okay. And she said "no way, I'm not interested in women." I looked at her, laughed and said "but they're interested in you, and you like the attention. Eventually, it's going to happen. And it doesn't mean you aren't straight out here, but you gotta understand, it's different in there in all regards, that one included."

I think it would have been harder for me as an MBI if what I knew her to be before she went in was timid, non-flirtatious, avoidant of women.....Dee tends to welcome the attention, and her body language toward other women she was locked up with was welcoming when I saw her with them in visiting (since they'd line us up 10 to a row in County and then again in the visiting room once she got to State Prison.)

So I decided not to fight it. Eventually things did happen and we dealt with that when it came up and basically because of my approach I took what was an embarrassing thing for her to admit and something that had her questioning a lot of things about herself, her sexuality, her ability to remain faithful, etc. into something much more positive. I won't go into all the various specifics, but I will say one of her "buddies" and I actually became pretty good friends. She was very respectful of me, actually very apologetic, and very shocked when I said "it's cool, I know, but thank you for being honest about it, that means something to me."

By no means do I think this would work for everyone. But it works for us. And I think that it's a big part of why we have a lot of positive momentum and a strong commitment as she gets ready to come home.

-E
All of us are making the best of bad situations in our own ways. Our LOs have very little to take the edge off being confined. "Going with the flow" beats fighting a losing battle with nature. Our acknowledgement and acceptance that things are different inside go a long way toward making relationships work.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:56 PM
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I dont believe that sex between women happens that much. I used to work in a state prison and I didnt see that much with the women. I actually saw much more with the men. I know right? But, there were certain men for hire and would do anything for money on their books. I really believe women can do without much longer then men. Also dont always think penetration with men ... a lot of the men were just caught with the BJs. But, several women c.o.s were caught compromising their position. Yes when women are present, the men generally wont get into violent fights out of respect for the women c.o.s. Or if it starts it ends quickly. I know men do the BJ thing more then people realize but, dont sweat it. A lot of men would NEVER do that so, if you have a husband or BF in prison I wouldnt worry too much.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:57 PM
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Yes let's openly speak about what goes on behind the prison walls, especially when one has not been a woman behind prison walls. I didn't just speak to one woman who regaled tales to me. Mine comes from personal experience. 80% and your postulations about how women's prison is, is absolutely ridiculous!!

Most people/women are straight. Are you? If so, do you just start having sex with men when you are bored? I have no idea who you were talking to nor what their angle was, but I wouldn't continue to put much stock into it. I'm telling you, 80% of women having sex in there is ridiculous and far from the truth!! What do you think? That some orgy is occurring? haha.

You're also misinformed about women and STDs. It's a lot more difficult to obtain STDs from lesbian contact. Your idea about lesbian STDs running rampant and having to take emergency quarantine tactics is also ridiculous. How would that work if it was a continuous 80% of the population? Think here. They don't quarantine people with STDs, they treat them. Only back in the day did they separate people with HIV. I'm sorry but the vision you were given is just not accurate. The excuse that "every facility is different" does not make it accurate - only a possible anomaly - but not a likely aspect.

BTW, in all my years of lock-up, AND actually being of that persuasion, I have never had any sexual contact with an inmate. Why? Because I wasn't attracted to any. I don't know if you are aware of this, but many of the women have been through some "hard-living" and education background is always low. It's just not my type. So this idea that women can't help themselves and have an unyielding desire, and vacuous hole, to desperately have intimacy or contact, is total hogwash. Plainly put, prison is a turn-off. And if you weren't of that persuasion before, you don't turn. You have to have an inclination beforehand. Otherwise it's not going to interest you (which establishes most of the population). You don't HAVE to do this. And yes, self service does suffice when you just need to take care of business.
Ok, let's take this one by one. On your first point, my data comes from the BJS, studies performed by universities throughout the U.S. and the U.K., and Brazil and Australia and what those who have actually been there have told me. A small sample, but what they tell me lines up with the studies performed by academic personnel with routine variances for personal experience. The first thing that you notice is that everybody has a different take. Part of that is cultural, part is because people lie, and partly because of each facility is different. That isn't an anomaly, that's the way that it is.

The obvious explanation is that everyone has an ax to grind. Even you. That's why you attack my sexual orientation and imply that I am incapable of understanding because I am straight. That's your prerogative, but it won't get you anywhere.

Because I have never been a woman and have therefore never served time in a women's prison, I must therefore be talking out of my ass, according to you. That is the most absurd thing that you have said. You are free to respond emotionally to this argument if you wish, but the data disagrees with you regardless of your shrill tone.

My point was that 80% of straight females participate in lesbian liaisons behind bars when given enough time inside. I didn't say that they engaged in sex 24 hours of everyday. I didn't say that they did so twice a day. But according to you, I did. Different localities have different rates of sexual incidence and the STD comment was furnished by a woman who served time in a facility in Michigan. So my source is more than just one stud (her word, not mine).

This is the second time that I have posted on PTO in good faith and been called a liar for my troubles. There will not be a third.
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