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Arizona General Prison Talk, Introductions & Chit Chat Topics & Discussions relating to Prison & the Criminal Justice System in Arizona that do not fit into any other Arizona sub-forum category. Please feel free to also introduce yourself to other members in the state and talk about whatever topics come to mind that may not have anything to do with prison.

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  #51  
Old 03-13-2006, 03:51 PM
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Greetings everyone. I got off my duff and sent my letter to Dora. NOW....who else can I send this to?

P.S. I sent it snail mail.

OH HELL YEAH!!!!!
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  #52  
Old 03-13-2006, 09:30 PM
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Folks really do forget that most of the guys in there made one wrong stupid decision and really are regretful. Yes, there are some "bad asses" who want to be and stay that way and those are the ones we hear of on the ten o clock news and those are the ones that the public wants to crucify. They don't stop to think about a neighbor who had a slip in judgment. I was inside long enough to know that the more that is taken away the angrier the inmates get and the more problems there will be when they get out. I have tried to get them to drop kites on certain issues but they feel that they won't be heard or that they will be penalized for doing it. I couldn't get through that it will work. So, if those on the outside could get have a small victory and get the packages back, then who knows what the future holds.
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  #53  
Old 03-14-2006, 07:46 PM
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Yes, Yes, Yes....And "Yes" Again....But these arguments are the ones "we" in here, in this forum already know....we're preaching to the choir, my friends....

I will repeat myself YET AGAIN...."Give me good reasons why, as 'Joe Q Public,' my taxes should support staffing or programs, etc., that will allow Christmas packages?"

I'm not trying to spark a debate here....I need ammunition....

To write argue a case effectively, the facts must be presented logically, objectively, and convincingly....

Look, most everyone in here has had experience with the legal system in one way, shape, form or another.....true?

WE are trying to argue our "case" for Christmas packages....we're not trying to convince a single person; we're having a "jury" trial here....the difference is that in this situation, all of the "jury members" are elected officials....everyone in a position to make a change is primarily concerned with either getting re-elected, getting a promotion, or keeping their jobs....

I'm not trying to argue whether or not "Joe Q Public" is right or wrong in his/her opinion....that is completely irrelevent....the fact of the matter is that the public sentiment is very strong....they've already judged everyone behind bars, and our job in this instance is not to try to change their minds, but to use their own opinions to work for us in our favor in this matter....

So again, I"m asking y'all to give me some ammunition here....."Give me your best reason(s) WHY CHRISTMAS PACKAGES SHOULD BE ALLOWED"

Reducing stress between inmates, and with staff is a good place to start, the "opening statement" to the "jury".... because by reducing "stress," the potential for violence may become less...(and as far as "Joe Q. Public" is concerned, prison riots and violence, etc., are a strong indicator that his/her "tax dollars" are being wasted)....for those running the show (Dora, the DOC, and "whoever") wasting tax dollars is not only a public embarassment, but potentially could end the chance for re-election, etc.....so that argument indeed carries some weight....

That's a good place to start, but it won't carry the weight of the argument for our cause....

What are some other reasons why Christmas packages are a good idea?

I've been asking everyone for weeks now to inform me about the reasoning behind changing this policy (deciding to not allow Christmas packages) to begin with....and so far, "NADA"....Does anyone even have a clue about this?

No. What I've heard alot of is the same question: "When is everyone going to write a letter?"....Which translated, means that there's a tremendous amount of finger pointing going on in this thread....let's stop with the self-superiority here, and begin to organize ourselves as a group....why do most people feel that their letter won't make a difference? Because, unfortunately, a single letter or two or three or ten doesn't begin to make a single drop in the bucket....however, a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand could cause the wheels to turn....

WE need to band together and organize an effective campaign for our cause....this isn't going to happen willy-nilly....AGAIN, give me some ammunition here folks....

I'm happy to write a letter....but I'm not gonna waste my time with a half-a**** attempt to convince people who've already made up their minds to agree with my "feelings"....not one of those people/groups (Dora, the Governor, the DOC, etc) gives a d*** about me, my feelings, or my loved one behind bars....what they are looking for is effective public policy that will get them re-elected, give them a promotion, or allow them to keep their jobs.....

So let's give them what they want....

What are the reasons why allowing Christmas packages to inmates would be effective public policy?

Give me your best shot....I really want to know
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  #54  
Old 03-14-2006, 08:01 PM
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And yes, Limey, I think that your argument "perhaps they will see what their actions have cut them off from, maybe make them think twice before they would choose that road again" is a good one, as well....let's start a list in here, okay? My tone probably sounds a bit harsh....because I"m tired and frustrated....I just got back home after spending a week in a hospital-room with a loved one who had a heart attack last week....it's been touch and go, and I'm exhausted...and now I'm frustrated after reading these posts, because it seems like we're all just spinning our wheels in the mud....Why is it that women are so unsuccessful at working together? (most of us in here, though not "all" are women)...if women could work together for a common cause, we'd be running the country...at least more than just 1% would be breaking through that "glass ceiling" of corporate management....and we da** sure wouldn't be making only sixty cents to a man's dollar in the US workplace....so let's all just agree to work together on this issue, shall we? Eh?
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  #55  
Old 03-14-2006, 11:47 PM
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at least that is what he has told me. I guess because of staffing shortage or people acting up I am unsure which.

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  #56  
Old 03-15-2006, 12:10 AM
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North star, here are a couple of suggestions. If Christmas packages were to be reinstated with these conditions... 1. no tickets within the last 60 days. 2. no drug violations within the last 6 months. This would be incentive for both inmates and DOC. Inmates who have recent tickets and drug violations are exempt from Christmas packages. If this were put out on a yard it may make them think twice and staff resources for dealing with "bad boys" would be reduced.
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  #57  
Old 03-15-2006, 05:37 AM
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If Christmas packages were to be reinstated with these conditions... 1. no tickets within the last 60 days. 2. no drug violations within the last 6 months. This would be incentive for both inmates and DOC. Inmates who have recent tickets and drug violations are exempt from Christmas packages. If this were put out on a yard it may make them think twice and staff resources for dealing with "bad boys" would be reduced.

YES!!....Limey! That's excellent reasoning!!...probably there are additional ways in which Christmas packages could part of a reward/punishment program (not that I necessarily agree with taking away an inmate's xmas package as a punitive measure, but it sorta fits with the whole Santa Claus thing...like in the song: "he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake"... i.e., the "lump of coal" in the Christmas Stocking, etc...)....

This sounds like something the DOC would like to hear....they might also figure that reducing the total number of Christmas packages would help to cut down on the number of staffing hours it would take to inspect each and every package....(I don't know for a fact that this is a major concern of the administrative powers, but I'm sure it will cross their minds, since staff shortages already are such a major problem)

There also may be other ways in which the ability to receive a Christmas package could be used as a form of "incentive"....

For example, it seems to me that many inmates are uneducated or/and illiterate (I don't know about this firsthand, but so I've heard)....this fact in itself is a major detriment to an ex-con out here in the "real world"....illiteracy is a major social problem in the US, and I've met many, many illiterate homeless people who are unable to get off the street or to find employment, etc., primarily because they are functionally illiterate....perhaps this factor could be somehow crafted into this argument for Christmas packages....

Limey, thanks so much for a logical and workable suggestion....let's all kick this around some...and other ideas, if we can come up with any, that would help to ease the burden of the DOC and prison staffs...this is what they're looking for...

Thanks again, Limey!!
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  #58  
Old 03-15-2006, 03:22 PM
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remember costs are a bottom line with doc.. so suggestions as to how to save money will always work..
remind them that those who have loved ones inside would vote for the representatives that help them save money.. this letter campaign should be a show of strength as to say hey we vote and we want this..
just a thought that those who visit regularly can talk to the other families about sending in a letter etc.. or talk to those inside to have them talk to their famililes
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  #59  
Old 03-15-2006, 05:15 PM
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Time to play devil's advocate as far as costs go, I am sure that DOC gets a kickback from the Keefe store. Even though Keefe's Christmas fare sucked big time they might feel a loss if the packages were reinstated. So they wouldn't save money in that area. Packages were generally gone through by mail and property staff and those that they couldn't get to were taken care of by staff on shift.
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  #60  
Old 03-15-2006, 07:15 PM
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Packages were generally gone through by mail and property staff and those that they couldn't get to were taken care of by staff on shift.

What I've heard lately is that "mail and property staff" are doing "double duty," working in the yard, etc.....(maybe one good reason why the mail, etc. is taking longer and LONGER time to be delivered to inmates....)

So, maybe we need to pay a different kind of "kickback" to the DOC....I wonder what would happen if everyone sending a Christmas package enclosed a "fee" for the hourly wage it would cost the DOC for the mail/property staff to process their package?? Sure, it wouldn't be the gargantuan sum that the DOC may be kicking back to Keeffes, but it might make a strong statement about the importance of reinstating Christmas packages....inmates probably would purchase the store fare anyway, regardless of receiving the Christmas packages....

Just a thought....it could work, though :-)
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  #61  
Old 03-15-2006, 08:44 PM
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you can not send a fee for sorting packages as it would be considered a bribe..that also would not be proper .. what if someone forgot to send the money then would their parcel be tossesd?
this needs to dealt with a community spirit and dealt with through proper channels.. if everyone writes a letter to DOC and their local politicans for those local?? that can help ..
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  #62  
Old 03-16-2006, 12:51 AM
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The checks wouldn't be made out to the staff members themselves, but to the DOC....

The US Government charges fees for all kinds of things (i.e. license reinstatement fees)...

The US Court System has fees for many things, such as "title searches" and obtaining public records....

There are "fees" attached to "Small Claims" cases heard by US District Court judges.....

Private companies do the same thing in the form of "shipping and handling," which is a form of profit-making (shipping charges actually are only a fraction of what it really costs to "ship" something)...

These are not bribes, nor are they considered to be "bribes"...."fees" are the simply the cost of doing business in the US

If a person drops a gift-package in a US mailbox and "forgets" to pay the shipping charge, what happens to it?....who knows....maybe it gets returned to the sender, maybe not....it certainly doesn't get sent to the intended recipient....too bad, so sad....how many people actually forget to buy a stamp when they post a letter? Not many....my suggestion would be that people don't "forget" to pay the fee... Christmas packages would be a privilege, not a right....

Last edited by northstar; 03-16-2006 at 01:23 AM..
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  #63  
Old 03-16-2006, 10:04 PM
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I hope that more have sent a letter off.. I sent one as well in case I did not state that yet as this can work and they will resolve the other issues..
this thread needs to get back on track as it is about getting the letters in saying hey we care and we are loved ones of those inside who want this reinstated..
the inmates want this back and the families will save money so let us all just send a letter in whatever words you want it is about showing strenght in numbers ...
so lets get the numbers out there
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  #64  
Old 03-17-2006, 01:53 AM
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Folks, remember that these were "food" packages only..... no other items allowed.
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  #65  
Old 03-17-2006, 04:43 AM
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"this thread needs to get back on track as it is about getting the letters in saying hey we care and we are loved ones of those inside who want this reinstated..the inmates want this back and the families will save money so let us all just send a letter in whatever words you want it is about showing strenght in numbers ..."

I have yet to see any evidence that the DOC "cares" about the feelings, needs, or wants of either inmates or families and loved ones of inmates.

While some CO's or staff may care personally, the only thing the DOC cares about is the law and what the law mandates....(if the DOC doesn't care whether or not inmates receive health or dental care, why on earth would they care about anyone's "feelings?")

This thread is not about strength in numbers, it is about achieving the objective....the objective is to convince the DOC to reinstate Christmas packages...

The objective will be achieved only if we are able to convince the DOC and those with decision-making power to change the current policy now in effect....they are looking for public policy that will satisfy taxpayers and their constituents...

Writing letters is the only tool we have, for the most part, and yes, there is strength in unity...however, without a logical and effective "plan" we will fail to achieve the goal, even collectively....

This thread is very much on track at this point in my opinion...discussion is important to broaden perspectives and allows options to be presented for acceptance or rejection....to yields results...

WE MUST work together on this as a team, as a single UNITED voice....

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from writing letters right now at this point....but if everyone goes of "half-cocked" and their attempts fail, what will happen is that the letter-writer will say, "My letter didn't make any difference" and "I told you so"....and they will give up....THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN...WE CAN'T GIVE UP....

The purpose of the thread at this point is to lay the facts on the table and to plan our attack....it's now Mid-March....let's set some deadlines so we don't become sidetracked by nit-picking...

Let's plan a three-pronged offense and attack this problem with commitment, perserverance, and strength....united together, putting aside all of our differences....WE CAN DO THIS!

Our tools are 1) Letters 2) Emails 3) Phone Calls

Let's plan to send our letters by the end of the month....say, April 4th....the emails by the middle of next month....say April 22....the phone calls by the first week in May...say May 5th...

Then, let's turn up the heat, and do it over again....

Once we've written our letters, we can resend the same ones again, and yet again....we can do this every month, week, or day....

Let's send copies of our letters to our inmates, and enlist their help by asking them to send kites, or whatever it takes for our "voice" to gain volume and strength....

Perhaps we could start a new thread, where we all post our individual letters online here in this forum....so that we can use each others letters and words and send them to the DOC....this also would allow us to view our attack as a whole entity and not just in pieces....

The more we work together as a team, the more confident we will become...

If our inmates are able to see our attack, they, too, will become more confident

Let's work together to inspire and support each other so that we will be solid in our stand....

Help me out here, my friends...let's put our hearts completely into this....remember that this is a war....together we stand and divided we fall...

Peace,
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  #66  
Old 03-17-2006, 06:35 AM
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They do the same darn thing here in WV Rob loses his rec time at least 2-3 times a week and he only gets 5 days of rec !!!!!!!!!!!
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  #67  
Old 05-02-2006, 12:37 AM
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It has been a while here since anyone added to this post.........Christmas is only seven months away.... would you like your guys to have packages? Have you written about that? and if not why not? they are your family.......do it today
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  #68  
Old 05-03-2006, 07:10 PM
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Oh hell yeah I sent my letter off....a while back. The bummer is that you never know if it "got" to the intended. I would like to think they do get there as I have gotten responses from the Family Laision area about my questions.

I have also heard some stirrings about folks wanting to organize a PEACEFUL march on Washington D.C. to bring awareness of how things really are in the prison systems today. HEY...I am all for going there and showing my support in a peaceful march...hey I will carry a sign and everything. Anyone else heard about this?

OH HELL YEAH!!

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  #69  
Old 05-08-2006, 08:59 PM
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WE need to do something. I am so new that I don't know the ropes. Can we picket, can we write the paper, do we contact our congressmen? The squeakt wheel gets the oil and I think we need to start squeeking.
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  #70  
Old 05-09-2006, 10:52 AM
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Ok guys, I'm still green to the scene. Limey, why/what do we need to write letters for? To try and get them to be able to recieve X-mas packages?? I'd be HAPPY to!! Show me the way...............
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  #71  
Old 07-04-2006, 11:44 PM
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This post started about lockdowns due to staffing shortages and has gotten way off tangent. DOC is still very short staffed with officers working two overtime shifts per week. They just got a pay raise of about $3,000............ it is something but at this point it is a drip in the bucket. Come fall the new Fed facilityu on Wilmot will open and they will take yet another 150 staff from the Tucson DOC. I retired at the end of December and I just recieved a card saying that they will rehire me come fall. Expect more lockdowns...............
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  #72  
Old 09-02-2006, 08:06 PM
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Now here we are, another holiday season right around the corner and we weren't able to get the packages approved. The next step is mass mailing to those that are wanting your votes to stay in office. Dora didn't care but they will..................
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  #73  
Old 09-04-2006, 11:43 PM
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they seem to take awhile to do things
the parelle universe system seems to be the priority right now so maybe next year they will consider the letters sent... but I agree with Limey for people to bring it outside the DOC to get attention as then they are made to listen as well..
ahhh moving a mountain is a hard task but together we can all manage it
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