I'm hurt, a lil angry and need your input

[HeSoHandsome]

Originally Posted by GottheTshirt

When I was inside, my lady swore she was in it for the long haul. . . . I later found out that she got MARRIED while she was still coming to see me, telling me she was mine forever. . . I had 11 months left. My question...how freakin' long was THAT going on?

{abstracted from the General Prison Talk/Convict Lines forum}

My husband truly believes he does not have to prove himself to me. That the only one he has to prove himself to is God. That neither one of us has to prove anything to the other.

I, on the other hand, believe that we do otherwise how will we know for sure without backing our words with actions. He has established a pattern of "good boy while in/bad to the bone boy while out", so I'm sorry, from here on out after release I want proof, and that proof will be that he must act like that same choir boy in the streets. He intends to, but because of the pattern set, I have to wait to see it because I can no longer rely on the "convict lines."

What brought this up was he believes I haven't proved my love to him by getting a tatoo, while he has because he has gotten tatoos of my name. Something in him is crushed because he feels stupid for getting his. I told him don't feel stupid because I've earned my name on him by proving my love. So that's where all this "proving" stuff came from.

He said I haven't proved anything! He said saying I'm faithfully holding him down is not proof that I love him nor is the MCI, food and other packages, commissary, visits, the full ball of wax, that I've shown him. He feels that way because he said women do the full ball of wax bid with a man yet some have relationships with men on the sly. He said therefore, my doing the things I've done is not proof of my love when I've told him if I spend my money, that it is out of my care and love for a person.

Those words crushed me, so right about now, we both are feeling pretty crushed.

My basic question to you is do you two feel you have to prove your love to each other. I believe you do, but my husband belives you don't so I need to hear from other people in relationships on this. The other information I included was just to give you a bigger picture of what's going on, but all I really care about is the proving your love thing so please let me have your comments on that because I'd like to read them on the phone to him. Thanks.

p.s. I know I have trust issues, and they are rooted from (1) my childhood, (2) deceptive b.s. my husband has put me through, and (3) the constant deceptive b.s. that other people go through in their relationships. The ONLY way I can combat my trust issues is by seeing the proof of his words by way of his actions.

[steves_gurl3227]

well this is my opinion. my fiance doesnt have to proove his love to me by getting a tattoo, and i dont have to prove my love to him, by getting a tattoo, or spending money or phones or whatever. i believe in him and i know he loves me. we have been through so much together. did he do something horrible to you or something? i mean dang, so he says the only he has to prove himself to is god, then that is good. do you seriously love him? why cant you accept him for him, who and what he is, where he is from, and what he is about. love him for him. yes actions speak louder than words, but he is prison. what can he do? he can do what little he is capable of, given the present circumstances. you need to understand his hands are tied on a lot of things, but you shouldnt judge him for that. people change and you need to accept that as well. now in your eyes i may be full of crap, but this only my opinion. if he loves you then accept it, and dont hold the past or what he says against him. dont judge him for what he believes in. does he accept you for you? if you truly love each other then, you let that love carry your relationship to its fullest. dont throw b.s in his face, he doesnt need that, and niether do you. take things one day at a time. and just be there for him. stop trying to get him to prove things to you. like i said what can he really do in there. if you cant accept him and what he is, then you need to move on, and let him go, dont put the both of you through hell because you have to have him prove himself, maybe you'll understand when he gets out. life is full of ups and downs. deal with it, and just relax and live your life. maybe you have trust issues, so work on them. is it his fault you had a bad childhood? is it his fault you feed into other peoples peronal lives? if he did put you through b.s. you need to try to forgive him, if it is possible. let the past go and focus on the future, but better yet the future is now, so make it the best you can. he does not need to prove himself to you, and you dont need to prove yourself to him. there are only two people anyone needs to prove themself to. do you know who they are? god, and yourself. material things dont mean crap. home is where the heart is dear. i am not trying to chew you out or anything, but why dont you take a look at things from a more positive view, some people have it a whole lot worse. maybe you need to talk to him and only him about it all, just stop judging him. dont judge if you dont really know, get the facts first.

[HeSoHandsome]

Thank you for your words Sweetie Pie. Sometimes you need to hear things from people outside of your relationship and that's why I brought it here. I appreciate what you said, and, I'm gonna give it a whirl!! So when I speak with him later, I'll share the good news with him -- that I plan to do more accepting, more relaxing and less stressing. Much love.

[mel2020]

Yup, proof is it. However, I think men and women have different forms of this proof. To me, as it sounds like you, too, I feel the proof is in my everyday actions. I write him, send him money, take his calls, make calls for him, get through life without him so I can have one with him when he gets out. That's some massive, magnanimous, the epitome of proof in my eyes. Also like yours, he has a split personality. We were at a breaking point over this issue until he got locked up. Now everything is sinking in. The proof I wanted was the phone calls, the time, the actions, the need to FEEL important. I didn't want to hear it all, I wanted to feel it all. He didn't get it. He thought telling me he loves me and telling me I'm important over rides the "I forgot I was with my buddies" or the "I fell asleep, its not my fault" that made me FEEL second class. So, now that's he's back in, I've made it clear. NO MORE! I won't do this like this any more. He's been great so far. He's still got lots of time to do, too. So, when he does finally get out, he's on probation with me. I won't do it like that, and I've made that perfectly clear to him. If he wants a family, he's brought up the topic not me, he has to prove he's ready for it. I'll be damned if I raise kids with a man sitting on his butt or running with his buddies while I do everything.

They see it a little differently, unfortunately. Ask him to define what proof he needs. Then, define what proof you need. As you always hear on here, communication is essential. He has to be willing to listen and you have to be strong enough to not back down. Its hard, especially under the circumstances, but its got to be done or nothing will change. Also, I've found positive support helps a lot. Encourage him to take classes or go to meetings or read books that will help him understand reality better. I love to praise him about how something I've said has finally been taken to heart. It makes us both feel good. It possible, and it takes a while. But, he's got the time so why not do it now while there's nothing better to do!

P.S.: Here's another thing, a tatt proves nothing. I got one of my ex-husband's intials on me. You read that right, my EX-husbands!!! All that proved was now I have to find money to get another tatt large enough to cover those now. Do you know the people actually ask you if you're sure you want to do this? There's a statistic that something like 60% of people who get their mate's tatt don't last. Its trite, now. It used to mean something, now even Soccer Mom in the upscale suburbs does it. Tell him to be more original *LOL*

[steves_gurl3227]

i am glad i could help you a lil' like i said i am not trying to yell or anything, but sometimes i have to say exactly how i feel and hope that i can get my point across. good luck sweety and i wish you the best.

[nimuay]

I know more than a few people who think they have God's approval. And quite a few of them are in prison.

It's simple for me - if you have that belief in God to start with, then your actions will prove it. Your guy's words and his actions prove that he's not in synch with God at all. He's accusing, and distrustful, and he's denigrating what you do for him - doesn't sound godly to me. I would doggone well wait for proof and those accusations are the exact opposite.

[Silva]

I cant comment on the God thing, but I can answer you on the 'proof' thing.

When we start setting targets for 'proof', once we get there it is always a little hollow, especially when you are comparing yourself to others all the time. The people involved in your relationship are you and him, no one else, so what is right or 'proof' for others may not be the same for you two.

When I was younger, I thought that being engaged to my ex was enough to keep him with me. I thought that the ring would be enough to show everyone we were together. Later I thought our daughter would do it instead. But in the end all the 'if you love me you would....' crap gets in the way and I realised that I may have once loved him but I really didnt like him any more.

With Ray, I neither want or need proof. I am being selfish in this relationship, I am doing all that I want to do whether he wants or needs it or not (just happens that he DOES want & need right now). He knows this. He knows that if I decide to not eat one day so that I can send him a book I want him to have, then I will do it no matter how much he protests. He knows that I got a tattoo of a smiling sunshine just after he went in because I wanted it, not because of any point I was trying to make. He doesnt feel in any position to be demanding things anyway, and I'd be tempted to remind your guy of that too ~ he put himself in prison away from you, and in my book that makes it a little more important for him to be showing you he still loves you not the other way round.

But I dont need proof from Ray. All I need from him is to be allowed to express myself in whatever way I choose, regular letters and to be his only one.

[Woody's Girl]

I'm sorry, but, I have to say I agree with your man.... I don't think we should go around having to prove to one another anything.... You do have to answer to someone higher than you or me, and that is GOD, so if he needs to prove to anyone that is the right one, other than himself.... I don't want for anyone to prove anything to me, because all of what he is trying to prove could be fake, to get your approval and then, BAM!!!! Your whole lil world comes tumbling down, cause he decides, he's not happy with anything that is going on BASED AROUND THE FAKE PROOF... did I make any sense, probably not... but here for instance, remember the saying "you never meet a person the first time you meet them,, you meet their represenative"? That is so true, so, a person can be fake for as long as they choose to.... Oh, well, I may not be making any sense at all...

[HeSoHandsome]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions. no steves_gurl3227, you didn't come across as yelling at all, but as expressing yourself. I'm not gentle, but I do know when to and when not to be, so on my threads, gentleness is not an issue.

WoodysGirl I don't live in my own lil world so there goes your BAM theory. I just don't live in this world the way a lot of society does. When you're eclectic and different or are in a situation that is different, society just don't know what to make of that. But people always do come up with something. With anything, except just being accepting and embracing. Society.

I guess the bottom line is whether a person backs their word with actions or not, they could still be b.s.ing because what's gon be is gon be. So is there really even a need to take the "show me the money" thing that I'm on so serious. Maybe not, and that is why after reading all of the posts, I'm riding with do more accepting, more relaxing and less stressing.

[mrschris]

i think a tattoo is the wrong way of proving anyone's love. either you trust or you don't...either you will or you won't. you know you have trust issues, they are NOT going away on their own...maybe you should get help for them. i agree with your hubby...doing the things you're doing for him means nothing basically concerning trust because you can do all of that and more...and be cheating on him the entire time. as for me...i'm not hesitating to get my hubby's name tattooed on me. but that has nothing to do with proving my trust in him or love for him. he says the same thing. either you trust or you don't...it's something that comes from within, not by outside actions or words. i trust my hubby, i love him, not because of what he's done or hasn't done...but because it comes from within me. he feels the same, because it comes from within him.

woody's i totally agree.

not trying to stir up a can of worms...but these are inmates in jail...believe me...if they want to (NOT saying ANYONE's man IS)...they can act better than robert deniro (and that man can ACT). i thought my hubby was the BEST da** actor in his tier!!! so actions really mean very little if you take them at face value...and that goes for both parties, because each can have a hidden agenda. that's why i say trust has to be an internal thing...something you are willing to chance because he IS in prison and he is NOT home to prove his trust in other ways. only time will tell his true intentions...

[edit]
and as soon as he is able to show you his love and prove to you in other ways outside of prison who he truly is...he should be do so or be called on it, and further actions taken, if neccessary. anytime a person is involved in a prison relationship, they are taking a "blind" step...but as soon as he comes home..."blind" suddenly "sees" all...the real deal! so sure...if you love me once you're out...PROVE it. you certainly have the ability and free will to do so then, be it by getting a job, going to counseling, staying home, going to church, changing friends...whatever it takes. because true love does what it needs to do to remain. [/edit]

[TakinItDaybyDay]

Chris does feel like he has to prove himself to me, and I do too. God is the number one on the list, of course, but he made all the mistakes to get himself in there. I was nothing but the best when he was out, and he would tell that to anyone.

I have to prove myself as well. The way I do that is supporting him through all this, being faithful, and taking care of our family until he is able to do so.

For us it is not a bad thing. We want to prove our love to each other. It pushes us to do and want the best.

[HeSoHandsome]

Okay folks, the verdict is in. My husband cannot be trusted, like I knew. I did a lil research and what I knew from day one has been confirmed. I married a sociopath -- my husband has a mental disorder. Word is it can NOT be cured; word is anyone in a relationship with one should CUT all ties and communication and to RUN!!!

I've got a better idea. I'mma place this burden in God's hands along with my prayers that He perform a miracle on my husband. I married him in sickness and in good health. God brought me to him and because I believe in Him my total faith is in He will bring us through it. Praise Him, and Bless His Holy Name. Amen.

[AmyLynn]

I say in someways you have to show that you love that person by the things that you do or dont do.. My ex thought that be getting my name on him he was showing me how much he loved me. In reality of it all I think that if he ever loved me he would not have gone back to prison and left me out here. But everything happens for a reason and when he went back in I did it all money, books, visits the whole thing but in long run it was me who left him inside cause I could see that he was not changing while inside

[HeSoHandsome]

Amy Lynn, I can relate to that. People show [or prove, it's the same thing] their love in different ways. Times when my husband and I have a moment that overwhelms him in love he'll say "I'mma get that on my leg", or wherever, and then it's only a matter of time that when I show up to visit, he'll show me the new tatoo. Because he does it out of how he feels for me, he wonders, though he always tells me I am the best wife in the world no doubt, about my love because I haven't shown my love in the same way that he shows his. It's because people show their love differently.

He's very generous -- he's made and given me so much stuff inside. Times when I have been broke he'd call his grandmother and ask her to send me something. Unquestionably, he shows his love. My issue is I WANT TO SEE THE SAME REPRESENTATION POST RELEASE, and I really don't think that's such a bad thing, given the history of how men do in this lifestyle. He shows me outside, but not to the degree that he does when he's out.

I was/am where you are -- deciding what to do and because I uncovered confirmation of a disorder with him last night -- that he's a sociopath -- everything now makes sense and falls into place. I have decided to place this issue in God's hands because it is too big for mines.

[PhillyGurLL]

My husband and I used to argue about the commissary, visiting, whole ball of wax thing A LOT!!!!! I went to visit my husband from the beginning of my pregnancy until 9 months pregnant from Philadelphia all the way to New York – EVERY WEEKEND!!!!! I brought him food every two weeks and lots of it, also cartons of cigarettes! He used to tell me that he could get that from anyone, that it didn’t prove anything!!!!! He said the same thing yours did, that any woman could do that and still have a man on the side, etc… So you know what I did? I STOPPED!!!!! Since he has been in prison this time, I have NOT given him ANY money, food, clothes, ETC. NOTHING!!!!! I don’t visit every weekend either! And OHHHH Does he feel it!!!!! But I don’t care, it’s all about me and our children now!!!!! He now sells art work to get food and the things he needs! He apologizes to me allllllllll the time!!!!! But I’m still going to keep it how it is!!!!! I think he’s learned his lesson!

Now, the prove your love, I have to prove EVERYTHING to my husband! I will tell him “my blue jeans are blue.” He won’t believe it until he sees my blue jeans! He really has to see things to believe them! Me, I feel like I don’t have to prove ANYTHING! He should know by now how much I love him!!!!! I had his son and married him! Everything I do is for our family!!!!! If he doesn’t realize how much I love him, then he has a problem!!!!! So, I believe I don’t have to prove anything and he believes that I do have to prove something!!!!!

[Woody's Girl]

I guess you took that literally.... I was not just saying you "ANYBODY" we think we are living this way and it is all good, cause a person acted as if the way we wanted them to act and BAM our lil world comes tumbling down... Okay, that may be how I should have said it,,, But all the rest of what I said I still stand by it 200%, and now you say he has a mental problem huh? A sociapath, and you knew none of this.......This further proves my case......You married this man right, had no idea, he never let you know this....

Originally Posted by HeSoHandsome

WoodysGirl I don't live in my own lil world so there goes your BAM theory. I just don't live in this world the way a lot of society does. When you're eclectic and different or are in a situation that is different, society just don't know what to make of that. But people always do come up with something. With anything, except just being accepting and embracing. Society.

I

[lyteeydlwyr]

I think that the fact that everyone of us women have stood by our men through their bids--whether it's the first, second or whatever, is proof enough that we love them. It takes a strong woman to do time with a man.

[HeSoHandsome]

Originally Posted by Woody's Girl

A sociapath, and you knew none of this.......This further proves my case......You married this man right, had no idea, he never let you know this....

Woodys, I hear your efforts to diagnose my case but because you don't know my case, you are mistaken. If this was my first bid with my husband and if I made him my whole world, then your BAM theory would apply but because that is not the case, that is why in the case of me and him, what you've said does not apply. Now it does apply to others, just not to us.

I never said I didn't know any of this -- you said that. I knew something was wrong day one, and I told him day that one, but I didn't know EXACTLY and FACTLY what it was. And because the sociopath himself believes that there is nothing wrong with them or with their way of thinking, there was nothing for him "to tell me." According to the way a sociopath's mind works, they believe "maybe there's something wrong with YOU, but ain't nuthin at all wrong with me." There's something about the sociopath and the word wrong when it comes to their self. As time passed along the way through now I pointed things out to him as they occurred, and while he acknowledged those things he did not know why he did them, which is characteristic of the disorder.

So I knew something was wrong with him when I married him but I chose accepting him over rejecting him. There was a love there and we wanted to explore it more, so we went for it and that is why we got married. I confidently told him that as helpmeet I was going to help him identify the cause of his behavorial disorders (indicative on his record) so that the working process of fixing it can then begin, restoring some sort of normalcy to himself. I did not marry him based on "when he get out", but on love and how we will live our life daily, in or out of prison. When I married him I accepted him and all that comes with that territory and that's why I don't get all depressed and bummed out when things don't go right.

So we just flowed with it, and I didn't go looking for things because I knew whatever was there, over time, it would surface.

I know I cannot fix him, but I can help him to help himself because I believe he first has to line himself up to be ready to receive the blessings that God has in store for him. God works on an order that He set up, not on any order that we set up. His Word tells us all that we need to know on how to do this thing called daily living, and how to do it well.

PhillyG, I'm relating to what you said, and have considered taking the same approach (withholding the physical expressions of my love). My husband, too, cannot be convinced of things, unless his grandmother (who raised him) says it. I attribute that to the "manipulative" characteristic of his disorder. It seems as if my husband's subconscious won't let himself be convinced because he knows what he does to convince others. So it seems like if he allows himself to be convinced, that he's let someone else do to him what he likes to have the upper hand in.

He has, however, consistenly told me two things -- that while I can't convince him of anything that I have convinced him that I am the best wife in the world (by way of my actions). And that if I don't get the tatoo it's okay because he'll just get them for me on him, meaning him adding my name more on him to make up for the ones of him that I don't put on me.

He knows he met his match when he met me. Men love a challenge and I keep plenty of that in our marriage by not mapping things out so easy for him. There's always a new challenge with me as wife. He's the one with the disorder, but with a wife like me he never knows what to expect. There is no routine because I am not routine.

Men get a thrill out of victory, and sociopaths thrive on thrills gained by victory. In plain English, because they epitomize losers and wrongs instead of accepting that and working to better theirselves, they create a fantastic out of this world persnality, living it out because it feels better than their own personality. And me, I love and welcome a challenge too, which was also one of the reasons I accepted his proposal. I knew this marriage would be the ultimate challenge for me.

My belief rests in my faith that with God on my right, Jesus on my left and a band of angels around me I and we can surpass the odds, that in the end THE VICTORY SHALL BE MINE!! The key is I've gotta stay in it until the end, I can't give up because if I give up, then I automatically lose.

Sorry this is so long, but because I know there are others here who are in my shoes (but not you Dr. WoodysGirl ), I am basically posting this with the hopes that those people, if anything, at least gets some understanding out of the subject "my husband is a sociopath".

I believe that any woman who has been swept off her feet and feel that her relationship is the best that she's ever had -- that no other can compare to it -- read up on "sociopath behaviors" because they're out there. Actually, many are in prison, coming out of unstable homes and debilitated environments. Because way deep down they have trouble facing their own self, many do self medicate with drugs and or alcohol to mask what they feel deep down, resultantly living their lives in and out of prison.