I wish they would give conjugal visits back to lifers

[LadyBell]

Missouri doesn't have family visits and I'm not sure if Missouri has ever had in the past? Hey all they need to do is allow my husband and I to lock ourselves in the bathroom for 10 mins. We're not asking too much here, just 10 mins LOL!

[caribbeanblue77]

Originally Posted by LadyBell

Missouri doesn't have family visits and I'm not sure if Missouri has ever had in the past? Hey all they need to do is allow my husband and I to lock ourselves in the bathroom for 10 mins. We're not asking too much here, just 10 mins LOL!

....we would even be satisfied if they gave us the broom closet in the VR for a few minutes....ha ha....

[jeffsbaby]

Hey all~
I am not in cali but, I would love to help out anyway that I can! I am not sure how to even start something here. I am just now finding out who my local officals are. I have been working on his case a lot and trying to write letters and what not. I am new to all this!!!!! I have learned that I have a voice tho. Just tell me what I need to do and I will report for duty. I want them to get the visits back no matter where they are!!!! LIFERS CHICKS ARE UNITED!!!!!

BTW...ChunkY I am with ya gf. Show that club that likes us extra meat girls and I am there!!! I almost fell of the bed from laughing so hard at your post!

[caribbeanblue77]

This question might sound strange...but can our men do anything about this as well?? (Like writing letters to the right people) (Sorry, if that might sound a little naive)

[DiscreetWoman]

I know its within your right to say conjugal visits should be allowed for lifers, but I dont think that will ever happen. The thing that bugs me about that is, the women can get pregnant and with the man in prison, the welfare comes into place. You can thank that Tex Watson, one of the killers in the Manson clan, for getting conjugal visits taken away. he had like 3 or 4 children with his wife, and she collected welfare the entire time and the victims families were outraged and petitioned to get them taken away, and it worked. I kind of resent the conjugal visits for lifers because of the welfare thing, sorry.

[I'mTei's]

I'm trying to bit my tongue here to remain respectful but I think you're totally missing the point here.
So are you saying no one should be able to bare children based upon certain income conditions or factors? Therefore, your argument is not really with lifers being able to have family visits. By the way, they are called "family visits". Also, please know that "family visits" are a way to continue family ties with siblings and not just about "baby making".
Also there are two States that do allow family visits for lifers so, it's already happening.

Originally Posted by DiscreetWoman

I know its within your right to say conjugal visits should be allowed for lifers, but I dont think that will ever happen. The thing that bugs me about that is, the women can get pregnant and with the man in prison, the welfare comes into place. You can thank that Tex Watson, one of the killers in the Manson clan, for getting conjugal visits taken away. he had like 3 or 4 children with his wife, and she collected welfare the entire time and the victims families were outraged and petitioned to get them taken away, and it worked. I kind of resent the conjugal visits for lifers because of the welfare thing, sorry.

[I'mTei's]

I wish some of the same people that get so angry over or disapproving over women getting what 200.00 or 300.00 from the government to house or feed their children when their husband/boyfriend is incarcerated and unable to help with the family because the system which contains him will not release him, even though he/she has already paid their debt to society and overly paid their dues...I wish the same people could get angry or disapprove a system that GETS PAID THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS a year to house and feed those incarcerated that don't need to be incarcerated. We have people serving life sentences on their third strike for stealing food..REALLY! Housing inmates is a multimillion dollar business and that's where your tax dollars are going but folks are worried about having babies by those that are incarcerated and receiving welfare. Lets focus our attention on releasing those that have served more than their share of time and as result they can be out working and being the bread winner of the family. Climbing off of my soap box.

[JKB's Girl]

Originally Posted by DiscreetWoman

I know its within your right to say conjugal visits should be allowed for lifers, but I dont think that will ever happen. The thing that bugs me about that is, the women can get pregnant and with the man in prison, the welfare comes into place. You can thank that Tex Watson, one of the killers in the Manson clan, for getting conjugal visits taken away. he had like 3 or 4 children with his wife, and she collected welfare the entire time and the victims families were outraged and petitioned to get them taken away, and it worked. I kind of resent the conjugal visits for lifers because of the welfare thing, sorry.

So, using this same logic, I guess none of the other inmates that are not lifers that get family visits, their wives are never on welfare.....is that right???? Just the lifer's wives, is that correct????? If this is your reasoning, I would hope you have some facts to back this up.....

Look, I don't think that the conjugal visits are ever going to happen for lifers in most states and it has nothing to do with welfare and everything to do with the fact that most people are so self-righteous and have no understanding of the prison system and what we go through, no understanding that allowing these visits would promote good behavior and strengthen family ties, and are just plain mean spirited enough to think that because they are in prison they deserve nothing.

Because of this type of thinking, we concentrate our efforts on him making parole, this will hopefully someday get him home to me where we can have all the conjugals we want.

[DiscreetWoman]

I am entitled to my opinion and based on reading other threads and responses about women wanting to bare a child with their lifer, there are numerous people that object to this. Most of these guys are serving LIFE for murder, a sex crime, or a violent crime of some sort. The three strikes law applies to only a few out of these and prison is punishment-allowing conjugal visits is making prison much better for the inmate and yes, the children suffer if there are any and that sucks- so, "keeping the family together" is the point of conjugal visits- how about staying out of prison? I cant think of a better way to raise a family than not putting yourself into the position of getting a life sentence. Someone is not thinking about their children when theyre committing felonies. Yes I do object to a women continuing to reproduce because she can,,if husband is a lifer and she has very little financial means of support, she has no business having another child. There are lots of women who have no business reproducing, (overworked CPS is proof) and I don't think it's wise or good for the child for a woman, whose partner is incarcerated, to continue having children if she has to turn to public assistance. Hey, if she is educated and has a great job and can support them, fine- but I think this is a very small percentage of these women-you seem to think its ok to rely on public assistance. You and I both know, conjugal visits will result in more pregnancy and likely increased welfare rolls. I have a pen pal who is a lifer,,I think about the two deceased victims and I dont think he should be allowed any conjugal visits nor should he be released anytime soon and he knows my feelings on this. I choose not to have any romantic involvement because it's not fair to me or him. If youre going to stay committed to someone serving life, that goes with the territory- the seperation and the alienation. The kids are already suffering, believe me.

[JKB's Girl]

The vast majority of the lifers that are being supported in this particular forum were boys when their crime was committed, they were first time offenders.....I doubt seriously they were thinking about starting a family, most of them were in the depths of drug addiction, alcoholism when the crime happened. Average age for most of them was about 17, 18 years of age.

Let me give you a for instance, my man.....18 years old, convicted and guilty of first degree murder. First time offense, completely out of character for him......came from a good home......got mixed up in drugs and alcohol, boom........wrong people, wrong time, he ends up in prison for the rest of his life. Me, I was too young, couldn't handle it.....I waited 26 years I waited, I waited til I already had my children, they were grown and gone before I made contact with him. By that time he had made more of his life than nearly anyone else I knew outside of those fences.....and had I had the opportunity to have children with him, you bet I would have. I would have been able to take care of any child I had without a penny's assistance from the state. Now, I'm not advocating having a child without a father to help raise them every day, but I certainly understand these women longing to have a part of themselves with the man they love to continue on the legacy of love that exists between the two of them. They don't do it with the sole intent of milking any welfare system.

As far as denying conjugal visits simply because they are lifers.....that is just ludicrous. The other inmates in the few states that do get conjugal visits are no more deserving than the lifers. For us, if we got them, there would be no children conceived, I can no longer have children. You have something against us being able to have some time alone every few months????? Why would you have something against us having a weekend here and there......It doesn't take away from the fact that they are in prison......it gives them further incentive to be productive, behave properly, it re-affirms bonds between husband and wife, it is conducive on so many levels, I cannot begin to go into all of them here.

As far as your "staying out of prison" argument, when they are already in for life, that argument is rather pointless now isn't it????

I feel sorry for your penpal and the fact that you have no compassion for this man because of the crime committed. You see, here in this forum, we see past the crime, we see the man. We see the punishment for what it is and what it has done. They have had more taken from them than you can possibly know. To allow them one or two days of some kind of "normalcy" is not too much to ask.

Be careful, should you end up falling in love with your penpal as so many before you have done......then I'd bet your attitude about conjugals would change in a New York minute.

[I'mTei's]

First off, I never said it was ok or not ok for a woman to live off of public assistance. You know why I didn't? Because it is NONE of my business. I can careless what another person CHOOSES TO DO. Why? Because I'm focusing more on my business and handling MY BUSINESS. If you have a problem with anyone being on public assistance than that's your opinion but WRONG forum to address the situation. You are very judgmental being that you are dealing with someone that is incarcerated. How did your visit go? You came to this forum strictly to voice your judgment on the situation. Please reread the original post because your stance in this discussion is rendered moot. I will wait while you look up at that word.

[caribbeanblue77]

I think another problem is that (I can only speak about Germany, I don't know about the US) there are hardly any partime jobs for single moms from which you can make enough money to support a child. I'm not only talking about food, I'm talking about education etc. Plus there are not enough kindergardens and schools were the kids can eat, take a nap and stay until the afternoon, so that the mom can take a full position. I don't see anything wrong with the mother working and the government paying the money that is missing...I mean, I have been paying into the pot for 14 years...so it's a giving and taking. I decided to wait until my 30s to have a child because I wanted to have a PHD at least in order to get a good job. I'm 32 now, and I don't feel ashamed that the government might have to help me out a little bit when I'm a single mom in the future...

[caribbeanblue77]

I also think they should look into each and every case of the lifers individually, look at their behavior over the past few years, look at the transformation they have been going through and then decide whether that person should get these kinds of visits. I just wish they would understand that they are not dead yet, and it is not enough to just administer them

[DiscreetWoman]

Since youre in Germany, Caribbean, are you aware of the financial situation the US is in? The states are broke!! Including CA, AZ, Michigan, etc.. I work for the state and every state agency is in dire straits right now- unemployment benefits are at risk in AZ because the jobless rate is so high and most of these people are out of work due to NO fault of their own and they're going to be affected by the state being broke. Our Governor, as well as California's Governor, are making cuts to education, and other public programs. Californians are getting IOU's for their tax refunds- do you think its fair for the state to pay out Welfare assistance to mothers who cannot afford their kids? Especially a woman who chose to have a child with a husband thats incarcerated? It is not fair to the child or to the system and my stance will not change. I am for making cuts to the welfare system to prevent teachers from being out of work and unemployment from being cut. Conjugal visits for llifers will lead to increased welfare rolls, that I guarantee.

[JKB's Girl]

Discreet,

Please explain to me the difference between lifers in CA that are denied conjugals and the other inmates in CA that can have them??? What about the five other states that have conjugal visits, can you provide statistics on how this population that have the rare privilege of conjugals has been linked to an increase in their welfare rolls????

You keep saying LIFERS should not have them...... WTH????

[alwyslearning]

Originally Posted by DiscreetWoman

Since youre in Germany, Caribbean, are you aware of the financial situation the US is in? The states are broke!! Including CA, AZ, Michigan, etc.. I work for the state and every state agency is in dire straits right now- unemployment benefits are at risk in AZ because the jobless rate is so high and most of these people are out of work due to NO fault of their own and they're going to be affected by the state being broke. Our Governor, as well as California's Governor, are making cuts to education, and other public programs. Californians are getting IOU's for their tax refunds- do you think its fair for the state to pay out Welfare assistance to mothers who cannot afford their kids? Especially a woman who chose to have a child with a husband thats incarcerated? It is not fair to the child or to the system and my stance will not change. I am for making cuts to the welfare system to prevent teachers from being out of work and unemployment from being cut. Conjugal visits for llifers will lead to increased welfare rolls, that I guarantee.

Wow what a box - you are not comparing apples to apples. You are entitled to your thoughts. Ladies these are the oppositions we would face and have to hurdle, but it can be done

[PTO-110524]

Originally Posted by DiscreetWoman

I am entitled to my opinion and based on reading other threads and responses about women wanting to bare a child with their lifer, there are numerous people that object to this. Most of these guys are serving LIFE for murder, a sex crime, or a violent crime of some sort. The three strikes law applies to only a few out of these and prison is punishment-allowing conjugal visits is making prison much better for the inmate and yes, the children suffer if there are any and that sucks- so, "keeping the family together" is the point of conjugal visits- how about staying out of prison? I cant think of a better way to raise a family than not putting yourself into the position of getting a life sentence. Someone is not thinking about their children when theyre committing felonies. Yes I do object to a women continuing to reproduce because she can,,if husband is a lifer and she has very little financial means of support, she has no business having another child. There are lots of women who have no business reproducing, (overworked CPS is proof) and I don't think it's wise or good for the child for a woman, whose partner is incarcerated, to continue having children if she has to turn to public assistance. Hey, if she is educated and has a great job and can support them, fine- but I think this is a very small percentage of these women-you seem to think its ok to rely on public assistance. You and I both know, conjugal visits will result in more pregnancy and likely increased welfare rolls. I have a pen pal who is a lifer,,I think about the two deceased victims and I dont think he should be allowed any conjugal visits nor should he be released anytime soon and he knows my feelings on this. I choose not to have any romantic involvement because it's not fair to me or him. If youre going to stay committed to someone serving life, that goes with the territory- the seperation and the alienation. The kids are already suffering, believe me.

You certainly have a right to your opinion that inmates should not have conjugal visits but your facts are wrong.

3 strikes lifers number in the tens of thousands across the country. In California alone there are over 4,500 NON VIOLENT 3 strikes lifers and close to 30,000 total 3 strikers. That's just in California.

~~~~~~

Now, this forum is for SUPPORTING those of us who love a lifer. If this thread continues to veer off topic, it will be closed. This thread is not about welfare, state economy, or personal bias against inmates.

Back on topic about how we might work to get family visits (conjugal) back for lifers, please. No more back and forth and no more NON supportive posts.

[caribbeanblue77]

I'm very well aware of the economic situation of the US because the same goes for almost every country right now. Germany is not doing any better. Don't forget that our economy is connected to the US economy. Everybody is trying to cut down costs. My bf told me how this is starting to affect the prison as well (his prison is still considered the best in MA). So, my idea is to come up with a plan how to pay for conjugal visits. This is definitly going to be one argument why they don't have those visits anymore. The prison needs to accomodate people, more staff is needed to guarantee for safety etc..and this all costs money....Of course they would have to charge people for these visits. I would be more than willing to do that if the prisoners could also benefit from this money (better food, better health care, opportunities for education, trained stuff to take care of the prisoner's rehabilitation). Maybe somebody has more concrete ideas...or maybe this idea is totally stupid, I don't know..

[carnie]

CRAZY!!!!!! My husband has been in for 22+ yrs. Then we had familiy visit & visits 6 days a week. A LOT of us have lost f/v and now were down to 2 days a week visit. I have been involed in every effert to get back our f/v. And any new one that comes along, I will be there too. Never,Never give up. I do understand its a long up hill battle. I do know to do this kind of time faithfully and visit ( i visit every visiting day) and raise kids, ( We have 3 all are out of the house now) You can not make it on welfare. I dont know one lifers wife who is on welfare! Most have or had (retired now) very good jobs. Most are nurses, teachers, lawyers, Who put there self threw school. Also these visits are for FAMILIES. Not every lifer is guility, and most of them did commite their crime at avery young age. Cailf just NOW is starting to find them suitable. And sacto. wonders why the prisons are over croweded!!! Good Luck to every one, and bless all of you.

[carnie]

Originally Posted by JKB's Girl

The vast majority of the lifers that are being supported in this particular forum were boys when their crime was committed, they were first time offenders.....I doubt seriously they were thinking about starting a family, most of them were in the depths of drug addiction, alcoholism when the crime happened. Average age for most of them was about 17, 18 years of age.

Let me give you a for instance, my man.....18 years old, convicted and guilty of first degree murder. First time offense, completely out of character for him......came from a good home......got mixed up in drugs and alcohol, boom........wrong people, wrong time, he ends up in prison for the rest of his life. Me, I was too young, couldn't handle it.....I waited 26 years I waited, I waited til I already had my children, they were grown and gone before I made contact with him. By that time he had made more of his life than nearly anyone else I knew outside of those fences.....and had I had the opportunity to have children with him, you bet I would have. I would have been able to take care of any child I had without a penny's assistance from the state. Now, I'm not advocating having a child without a father to help raise them every day, but I certainly understand these women longing to have a part of themselves with the man they love to continue on the legacy of love that exists between the two of them. They don't do it with the sole intent of milking any welfare system.

As far as denying conjugal visits simply because they are lifers.....that is just ludicrous. The other inmates in the few states that do get conjugal visits are no more deserving than the lifers. For us, if we got them, there would be no children conceived, I can no longer have children. You have something against us being able to have some time alone every few months????? Why would you have something against us having a weekend here and there......It doesn't take away from the fact that they are in prison......it gives them further incentive to be productive, behave properly, it re-affirms bonds between husband and wife, it is conducive on so many levels, I cannot begin to go into all of them here.

As far as your "staying out of prison" argument, when they are already in for life, that argument is rather pointless now isn't it????

I feel sorry for your penpal and the fact that you have no compassion for this man because of the crime committed. You see, here in this forum, we see past the crime, we see the man. We see the punishment for what it is and what it has done. They have had more taken from them than you can possibly know. To allow them one or two days of some kind of "normalcy" is not too much to ask.

Be careful, should you end up falling in love with your penpal as so many before you have done......then I'd bet your attitude about conjugals would change in a New York minute.

You said it perfect!!!!

[SthrnGirl77]

If you are comparing lifers vs non-lifers, I think you've got it backwards. In my experience the lifer wives/girlfriends on average seem to be more educated and self-sufficient (myself included) than those who are with someone who is not serving life. I've never been on welfare, nor will I ever be. I don't care if people get welfare as long as they're not playing the system and it does make me mad that people do. That's one of the many reasons I vote.

Like others that have posted, my guy was only 16 when he went in and he was a first-time offender. I don't judge him. I look at the man he has grown into and who he is today. Everyone else (society) can cast the stones . We will all be judged one day by the same standards we judge other people by. I don't think you can really do anyone in prison any good if you don't have forgiveness and compassion in your heart.

[wisteria139]

I would love to help any way I can to get FV reinstated for lifers. My husband was just a kid when he was convicted; he is not the same person he was. It is a shame to not allow him a chance to have that sense of normalcy at least one weekend every few months. They have so little to look forward to. We were just having this discussion a couple of weeks ago, he said himself that if he knew he was elgiible for familly visits, he would make sure he was doing all the right things. He wouldn't want to mess that up for his family. So let me know what I can do.

[LovingGLJ]

Originally Posted by I'mTei's

First off, I never said it was ok or not ok for a woman to live off of public assistance. You know why I didn't? Because it is NONE of my business. I can careless what another person CHOOSES TO DO. Why? Because I'm focusing more on my business and handling MY BUSINESS. If you have a problem with anyone being on public assistance than that's your opinion but WRONG forum to address the situation. You are very judgmental being that you are dealing with someone that is incarcerated. How did your visit go? You came to this forum strictly to voice your judgment on the situation. Please reread the original post because your stance in this discussion is rendered moot. I will wait while you look up at that word.

I love this comment!!!!

O and by the way when a PERSON recieves aid they sign a paper stating that if they are to bare any more children they will NOT recieve anymore aid....Ok let me explain....

If I apply for welfare for me and my 2 children and then me and my LIFER go and have a FAMILY VISIT and I get pregnant I CANNOT ADD ON THE NEW BABY AND RECIEVE BENEFITS!......Hope that makes you "smile!"...

[Peach&Cream]

Originally Posted by DiscreetWoman

I am entitled to my opinion and based on reading other threads and responses about women wanting to bare a child with their lifer, there are numerous people that object to this. Most of these guys are serving LIFE for murder, a sex crime, or a violent crime of some sort. The three strikes law applies to only a few out of these and prison is punishment-allowing conjugal visits is making prison much better for the inmate and yes, the children suffer if there are any and that sucks- so, "keeping the family together" is the point of conjugal visits- how about staying out of prison? I cant think of a better way to raise a family than not putting yourself into the position of getting a life sentence. Someone is not thinking about their children when theyre committing felonies. Yes I do object to a women continuing to reproduce because she can,,if husband is a lifer and she has very little financial means of support, she has no business having another child. There are lots of women who have no business reproducing, (overworked CPS is proof) and I don't think it's wise or good for the child for a woman, whose partner is incarcerated, to continue having children if she has to turn to public assistance. Hey, if she is educated and has a great job and can support them, fine- but I think this is a very small percentage of these women-you seem to think its ok to rely on public assistance. You and I both know, conjugal visits will result in more pregnancy and likely increased welfare rolls. I have a pen pal who is a lifer,,I think about the two deceased victims and I dont think he should be allowed any conjugal visits nor should he be released anytime soon and he knows my feelings on this. I choose not to have any romantic involvement because it's not fair to me or him. If youre going to stay committed to someone serving life, that goes with the territory- the seperation and the alienation. The kids are already suffering, believe me.

I work for scammers, scum’s of the earth who deserve to be in prison (God forgive me, I'm no better to pass judgment)... they are RICH WEALTHY FOLKS though and get away with too much. Vast men and woman are out here free working the system, don't act like you dont do it on your taxes, ppplease!

There are a few great highlights in your posts on this and I agree with you in areas about welfare which is why I brought up the idea of the cdc placing a price on lifer family visits ~ I know that doesn’t sound fair, but no one said life would be.

[LamontLover]

Originally Posted by gonzowifey27

What do we have to do to get these visits back. Our loved ones need there family visits to keep them going. There would be less tention if they had those visits. To me the lifers need them the most. I dont feel it is fare that everyone is being punished for someone else mistakes.That happen in the 90s we are now in 2009 almost 2010 they should give them a shot to get them visits again everyone is not the same.

I had to come to the begining of this posting because I was reading some off the wall comments concerning this. My heart is broken in too many pieces as it is, and then to have someone with screwed-up facts & emotions to come & post here-I just cannot fanthom ANYONE having a PenPal who's serving This Sentence & then come here and say things things they did. If one choses NOT to support loving & accepting our decisions to love our LifeLovers, then SHAME ON THEM! This LifeLove is unlike anything you've ever experienced and if alloowing CV's will enhance that love for life, then WHAT CAN WE DO?
My Hazelnut's Federal...no CV's for us, but at least I get to just share his oxygen a few times a year.
Delphine...lovesicksilly