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  #1  
Old 09-26-2012, 07:29 PM
Willove Willove is offline
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Default Texas - State of oil, cattle and revenge

I need urgently to vent, and I apologize in advanced if I become too harsh in words.

There are so many execution dates set recently, especially in Texas. I feel this wearing me out, slowly but surely. I get so angry and sad every time I have to read there has another state-approved murder taken place. Not only that a human being get killed just on decision of other humans; what makes it all the worse is the inconceivable cruelness of these procedures, at last shown by the killing of Cleve Foster.

Only debating “humane methods of execution” is ironic and cynical. However, the way how condemned men are treated before they finally are put to death is nothing else but torment. Torment is against the law just as “inhumane” methods. Even in Texas. Mr. Foster was two times prepared to die, was led to the death chamber, and received absolution by a chaplain, before he’s got a last second stay. This procedure is commonly known as mock execution. Pure torture, cruel and undignified, as well as the decades-long persistence between life and death.

Texas is an awful, vengeful killer state without any sign of human dignity. This state is not civilized, just as other states that even today impose the death penalty. America, that brags about it’s alleged humanity, and pretends to keep human rights, is in this regard on the same low level as states like North Korea, China or Pakistan.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willove
Texas is an awful, vengeful killer state without any sign of human dignity. This state is not civilized, just as other southern states that even today impose the death penalty..
Okay. I was with you until this part. What makes the southern states that have the death penalty less civilized than the northern or western states that have the death penalty?

I'm sorry. I know I'm nitpicking. It just bothered me.

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Old 09-26-2012, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RainyCola View Post
Okay. I was with you until this part. What makes the southern states that have the death penalty less civilized than the northern or western states that have the death penalty?

I'm sorry. I know I'm nitpicking. It just bothered me.

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You're right, of course. Sorry. I've to correct - strike off the word "southern" in my post. Probably I was just too tired - over here it's already 2:30 am ....
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:49 PM
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I am a proud Texan and am very proud that we impose the death penalty and actually go through with it, unlike California. I don't know why that state even bothers giving killers the death penalty, only to let them die of natural causes behind bars before the appeals are allowed to run out.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:56 PM
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I do not believe in the death penalty but then again I have never wore any shoes that acquired me to believe in the death penalty. I feel your frustration about Texas and as I speak I am hoping my Fiance' hurry home because I am ready to move out of this state. I think if someone was to harm my family, I would want them to suffer the rest of their natural life, not be interrupted by putting them to death. I know prison is hell so if you hurt my family knowing you will be there for life is good enough for me. This is just my opinion.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:36 AM
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Ericaburke is proud to be a texan. Part of a crooked good ole boy system where the death penalty is used to win elections. Unlike CA who actually makes damn sure they are executing the guilty instead of whoever texas can happen to pin it on. Texas who gives potential death penalty cases to lawyers that have no clue or budget to defend these men yeah id be proud of that...texas who leads human beings to death like cattle regardless of there innocence. In Texas they want you dead before innocence can be proven and God forbid one of your crooked prosecuters and pd have to admit they were wrong. You know how proud them good ole boys can be...if you did your homework perhaps you would have read LWOP is less costly than capital punishment. Maybe one day you will get a knock on your door saying one of your loved ones is in this situation then you would be singing a different tune and don't say that would never happen to you because none of us thought it would happen to us. Your comments are hateful and unsupportive but your entitled to your opinion and I will respect that....I just can't fathom anyone being proud of killing anyone! Who says that? I pray your love ones never find themselves in this situation...have a blessed day
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:42 AM
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You're right, of course. Sorry. I've to correct - strike off the word "southern" in my post. Probably I was just too tired - over here it's already 2:30 am ....
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:25 AM
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Willove View Post
I need urgently to vent, and I apologize in advanced if I become too harsh in words.

There are so many execution dates set recently, especially in Texas. I feel this wearing me out, slowly but surely. I get so angry and sad every time I have to read there has another state-approved murder taken place. Not only that a human being get killed just on decision of other humans; what makes it all the worse is the inconceivable cruelness of these procedures, at last shown by the killing of Cleve Foster.

Only debating “humane methods of execution” is ironic and cynical. However, the way how condemned men are treated before they finally are put to death is nothing else but torment. Torment is against the law just as “inhumane” methods. Even in Texas. Mr. Foster was two times prepared to die, was led to the death chamber, and received absolution by a chaplain, before he’s got a last second stay. This procedure is commonly known as mock execution. Pure torture, cruel and undignified, as well as the decades-long persistence between life and death.

Texas is an awful, vengeful killer state without any sign of human dignity. This state is not civilized, just as other states that even today impose the death penalty. America, that brags about it’s alleged humanity, and pretends to keep human rights, is in this regard on the same low level as states like North Korea, China or Pakistan.

I so love your words!!!! Exactly my thoughts, I couldn't have said it any better and I applaud you!!!! Thank you!
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RainyCola View Post
Okay. I was with you until this part. What makes the southern states that have the death penalty less civilized than the northern or western states that have the death penalty?

I'm sorry. I know I'm nitpicking. It just bothered me.

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I also agree with you....
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:41 AM
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i agree with Billysbutton how can anyone support the death penalty in any state or anywhere when it is so corrupt and inhumane. The USA sickens me with their hypocritical legal system and tries to provote itself as being a leading country in human rights a free society what a joke. anyone who has researched into the legal system surrounding death row knows that judges can be bribed, state appointed lawyers are paid wether the person they are supposed to be helping lives or dies, people are convicted by statements from co-defendants/ false witnesses who are trying to save their own lives. People are convicted and put to death with no real evidence and vital evidence is kept from defendants that could prove their innocence by the courts. How can this be allowed to continue? it is just one big money machine it seems no-one in USA is interested in justice or the truth!
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:26 AM
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I live in California.
I hate the dp and one reson is the innnocent that get executed and then their loved ones are told,oopps....
I just read someones opinion that the dp needs to be carried out since it hepls leverage a plea out of murderers who don't want to be executed.
It also helps motivate those who have bodies buried to disclose their locations.
Too bad those that are actually innocent are those that are likley to refuse a plea and unless you can afford a OJ type defense team,you just might very well get convicted.
Don't believe California cares about innocence or guilt as much as a conviction rate.
Yes,we have many people in our liberal state that are anti-dp but we also torture many,many people in shu and Ad. Seg units and don't give a damn about human rights.
My condolences to those who have lost loved ones to the dp.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:26 AM
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@Ericabourke

It's world wide known that justice in this state is neither fair nor just. Evidence are often not legally recognized or even totally ignored, procedural errors are the order of the day, and the law mostly works in favor of well-financed people than of poor blacks for example. Welcome to racist Texas! To err in the side of death; Texas rather kills 10 innocents before it saves an offender. As in the dark age, they believe in the Lord's mercy, who takes the innocent into heaven, if he only believes in the only true religion.

The cruel repeated stays of executions in the last second is nothing else than another sign for the inhuman cynism of the legal system .Technical questions, officialism, nothing else. Life in Texas is worth nothing, just as little as justice. So you may be proud to be a Texan, ericabourke, even if there's no reason to be proud.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:46 PM
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@Personal thought for Pro-DP people
I'm Japanese,and for capital punishment system,I feel shameful about my own country.

If capital punishment is perfect system in ethical and legal way,I don't feel like this.at least,I feel a little less.

Many people thinks those punishment is far from their life,but many things going wrong.
Capital punishment "killed"young father who lost his 3 daughter in accidental fire.
And when robbery went wrong and co-defendant killed police officer,fear of his life,
A getaway driver who never been crime scene also getting death penalty.

I've heard on TV,many Texas people said Murderer should be killed.

Someone is responsible as "killer"of innocent people.How should they treated,in your opinion?

And the person did it political reason,to get your vote.I hope you to know truth,before give your vote for a person who used human life as his political tool.

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:14 PM
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--This was a post against to treat Asian Countries less civilized.
In fact many countries are mess,but same to Texas,good-hearted people are fighting.much harder than in U.S.
--I just wanted to tell it--
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:50 PM
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My, my. Look at us judge all people in an entire region with such a broad brush. Don't we all just hate it when it's us being hit with the brush?

Don't we all hate hearing how all felons are lower than dirt? Don't we hate it when people judge us by the acts of others? Dont we hate hearing that murderers are all monsters?

Aren't we all so very understanding and protective of the ones that murdered in our families, and by some pretty horrific means? Like it or not, agree with it or not, "murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. As long as the DP is legal, by definition it is not murder.

Interesting, that we can so easily take part in a double standard such as this. And a bit sad, too.

How can we ask or ever expect others to not judge if the the things we are heard saying the loudest are our own judgements of others?

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:17 PM
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Until a few years ago, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, Texas classified an executed offender's cause of death as "homicide." Then they decided to not call a spade a spade and changed it so they could class the death as "execution."

Law speak or not, and I don't mean this just for Texas, execution is still the taking of another human life. If we want to consider it murder, homicide or whatever, we are allowed to do just that. If we feel anger towards the system in place in Texas or wherever else it's okay.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
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As long as the DP is legal, by definition it is not murder.
Oh, interesting. Have you e.g. ever heard about "Jim Crow Laws"? According to these it was "legal" to discriminate black people. It was established law...

So be careful to use "legal" as a sufficient reason.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:13 PM
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I don't think anyone ever said it wasn't the taking of a life, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I was just pointing out how fast we can be moved to generalizing, and judging people we've never met.

Yes, we can call things whatever we like to make us feel better. Laws can be changed, though, so I always lean toward changing the law to make it better rather than to just call it something I like better. Whatever works.

And yes, it's as Ok for us to be mad at the system, and I suppose be mad at everyone in an entire state as is it for everyone in the state to be mad at people who end up on death row... isn't it (assuming they were, I suppose)?

Again - just pointing out that it's not just "them" that judge.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:36 PM
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Willlove,

OK, speaking as a Brit, living in Australia, and one who has many friends and loved ones in Texas - I have to say that your accusations are offensive to me.
Whilst I understand your anger, dismay and frustration it is not appropriate to include the whole of Texas in your accusations.

I have spent a lot of time in Texas and can actually say that Texans are amongst the nicest people I have ever met.

Just because the system in Texas behaves in one way, does not mean that all Texans (every man, woman and child) do the same.

Please be aware that you need to be a little more specific when you direct your anger. Challenge the status quo, protest against the system and fight for change in the establishment but please do not make such a broad, sweeping insult.

The issue of capital punishment and the moral character of a state's people (who are just like you and me) are not connected.

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Old 10-12-2012, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
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Willlove,

OK, speaking as a Brit, living in Australia, and one who has many friends and loved ones in Texas - I have to say that your accusations are offensive to me.
Whilst I understand your anger, dismay and frustration it is not appropriate to include the whole of Texas in your accusations.

I have spent a lot of time in Texas and can actually say that Texans are amongst the nicest people I have ever met.

Just because the system in Texas behaves in one way, does not mean that all Texans (every man, woman and child) do the same.

Please be aware that you need to be a little more specific when you direct your anger. Challenge the status quo, protest against the system and fight for change in the establishment but please do not make such a broad, sweeping insult.

The issue of capital punishment and the moral character of a state's people (who are just like you and me) are not connected.

Rachel
Rachel,

I think it's evident that I accuse Texas' administration, and not "the Texans". Re-read my posts, all I've written relates to the Texas justice system; I never talked about "Texans". Not even my response to @Ericaburke was a generel accusation, but was the answer of her personal statement.

I agree, the title of this thread is misleading, and if you think it's necessary, feel free to change it.

I reject the assumption of not being able to distinguish. If you had the impression I would judge a whole population including children, you're wrong. It was not my intention, and if I'm misunderstood by my insufficient use of English language, I apologize.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyCola
Until a few years ago, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, Texas classified an executed offender's cause of death as "homicide." Then they decided to not call a spade a spade and changed it so they could class the death as "execution."

Law speak or not, and I don't mean this just for Texas, execution is still the taking of another human life. If we want to consider it murder, homicide or whatever, we are allowed to do just that. If we feel anger towards the system in place in Texas or wherever else it's okay.
At least,in 2005,I saw one Death Certificate and written "Homicide" .

And I saw in recent TV,Wall's Unit Warden told same.

I'm sorry if I bring discussion my personal emotion,and confused you all with my strange English.

Even still puzzled why Texas exclude itself to follow Supreme court's decision..

K.Tokyo,Japan

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Old 10-12-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
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@Ericabourke
Life in Texas is worth nothing, just as little as justice. So you may be proud to be a Texan, ericabourke, even if there's no reason to be proud.
To put it nicely, you are out of line in your generalizations and comments about Texas and it's people. And, for the record, I do not accept your "apology in advance"

I definately dont share your passion in regards to this issue. Either way. I have mixed feelings about it like a lot of people. It is one of those controversial issues where there is so much grey area and basically it's just not one of the issues at the top of my priority list.

I'll be the first to admit...you do NOT wanna be outside of the law in this state. There is no doubt our system is flawed though to what degree is debatable, but even when it does work the way it should, Texas is generally not real sympathetic towards criminals. To commit a murder in this state is definately the last thing you want to do. And you want to know some real truth? I don't know many Texans who aren't prepared to defend their home and family....So hypothetically speaking...If someone came into MY home to rob me, and attempted or succeeded in harming my children in the process.... Let's just say, they would be fortunate if they made it to a courtroom let alone death row. I'm not going to say anything more about the topic of DP because I am torn on my feelings about it. To err is human, and there is not room for error when you're talking life and death. On the other hand, if I had lost my child or loved one to a cold blooded murder, I really can't say I would be opposed to DP. Guess that makes me a big Piece of Texas Sh***.

Most of us don't rely on the system cause we KNOW its broke...

I'm sure this post wont last long sorry mods...

Oh yeah, have you ever actually been to Texas? I'm guessing the answer is no, based on the little knowledge you have about it.

I see you are from Germany? Hmmmw what do I know about Germany? Do I need to go any further?
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:58 AM
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Okay. As someone who was originally offended by the post at first (as evidenced above) I have to defend the original poster. I know English is not their first language, so maybe that's why I kind of read into the whole thing differently.

I rage against Texas as much as other people do, but it has nothing to do with the citizens of Texas. I have been to that state countless times since I was a kid - many, many trips to Galveston and South Padre for beach fun, Houston and Brownsville to visit friends and family, and if I could pick up today and run away from home I would run straight to Austin. And, of course, I've made many trips to Livingston. I love the people of Texas and have never once been treated like I wasn't family. Some people find the friendliness weird. I find it endearing. Then again, I'm southern so I treat everyone like family too. I have nothing against the people of Texas. I don't like their criminal justice system. I don't like Louisiana's justice system either. BUT I do know that both states are on the same wavelength when it comes to punishing their criminals - Louisiana is just less likely to send a convicted murderer to death row unless is was a very, very vile act. They aren't quick to send someone who murdered during an armed robbery to death row. Then again, everyone here knows that if you're convicted of murder that's it for you - no chance of parole here. But I digress. I'm rambling.

After I relaxed and stopped being offended, I realized that the OP is from Germany and, while the English is great, they obviously don't know how to properly express in English. That is not a knock! I don't think OP meant any ill will to the people of Texas, just the justice system. The flawed justice system. But.... The justice system everywhere in this country, not just states with the death penalty, is flawed. Nowhere in the world is it perfect.

I do want to address one thing LittleWing said, though. The "one-sided censorship" is here because it is a support site, not a place for people who are opposite in our thinking to come here and attack us and/or our loved ones. I don't know why people get upset about the fact we don't debate the death penalty here. I mean, would people in the sex offender forum appreciate debate there? Would people appreciate others going on the MWI forum and chastising them or their loved ones? No. So please - ride your high horse away.

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:10 PM
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I edited that out of my post even before u so kindly asked me to leave because I knew it wasn't fair. I've been a member of this forum for awhile and have a great deal of respect for the man who started it and the admin and mods... They do great job. My post was a reaction and what I meant by that statement was in frustration to the fact that her insulting post was not removed. I believe she knew what she was saying as she apologized for it in the first paragraph but continued with offensive judgmental generalizations.

And I liked your post btw just disagreed with that
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