Does the sentence for your loved ones fit the Charges?

[Anne Morris 87]

I, really cannot explain whay I have always felt this way since I was twelve years, but I have always felt that the sentence the does fit the charges.

How do you feel about your loved one receiving a life sentence for what they did? Was Justice served, when your loved one recieved a life sentence?

[~Christina~]

Originally Posted by Anne Morris 87

I, really cannot explain whay I have always felt this way since I was twelve years, but I have always felt that the sentence the does fit the charges.

How do you feel about your loved one receiving a life sentence for what they did? Was Justice served, when your loved one recieved a life sentence?

hell no! he may have to do the rest of his life cause he did 3 felonies (no murder cases)..he might get parole, but in ca.? it's more likely he won't, or not the first time up anyway. idk it's just mind boggling the laws that state has

[hizgirl123]

Originally Posted by ~Anthonys_Lady~

hell no! he may have to do the rest of his life cause he did 3 felonies (no murder cases)..he might get parole, but in ca.? it's more likely he won't, or not the first time up anyway. idk it's just mind boggling the laws that state has

Just a matter of time before the 3 strikes law changes. Hang in there.

Those sentences are crazy!!!

[Anne Morris 87]

Originally Posted by ~Anthonys_Lady~

hell no! he may have to do the rest of his life cause he did 3 felonies (no murder cases)..he might get parole, but in ca.? it's more likely he won't, or not the first time up anyway. idk it's just mind boggling the laws that state has

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry, he got a life sentence and I agree that the laws in California are Crazy, especially the 3 strikes law. The three strikes law definitely needs to be changed!

[IrishFire]

I think it has something to do with my Irish heritage, because I love a good debate... Not arguing, bickering, or personal attacks. With that said, and the admittance that my understanding of the three strikes are limited, what is it that you feel should be changed with the three strikes law.

I think we could all agree that to sentence a shoplifters to life in prison is incredibly ridiculous. But, how about someone who has been charged repeatedly for home invasion? Carjacking? Exposing himself to children at the park (or God forbid, doesn't stop at that), what about walking into a convenience store and sticking a gun in your mother's face, demanding she hands over the cash? What if the gun isn't real? What if the real gun isn't loaded?

Is there a specific crime that you, as a law abiding citizen, who goes to work everyday to put food on the table for your family, finds suitable to "three strikes, you're out?"

Maybe your mom AND those who love her, would have never known the terror of having to stare down the barrel of that gun had this guy been taken off the streets earlier.

Maybe your daughter or son would not have to endure a lifetime of nightmares had this man been locked up BEFORE he graduated from indecent exposure, to molestation.

May God protect us from ever having to experience any of the above.

[Anne Morris 87]

Originally Posted by IrishFire

I think it has something to do with my Irish heritage, because I love a good debate... Not arguing, bickering, or personal attacks. With that said, and the admittance that my understanding of the three strikes are limited, what is it that you feel should be changed with the three strikes law.

I think we could all agree that to sentence a shoplifters to life in prison is incredibly ridiculous. But, how about someone who has been charged repeatedly for home invasion? Carjacking? Exposing himself to children at the park (or God forbid, doesn't stop at that), what about walking into a convenience store and sticking a gun in your mother's face, demanding she hands over the cash? What if the gun isn't real? What if the real gun isn't loaded?

Is there a specific crime that you, as a law abiding citizen, who goes to work everyday to put food on the table for your family, finds suitable to "three strikes, you're out?"

Maybe your mom AND those who love her, would have never known the terror of having to stare down the barrel of that gun had this guy been taken off the streets earlier.

Maybe your daughter or son would not have to endure a lifetime of nightmares had this man been locked up BEFORE he graduated from indecent exposure, to molestation.

May God protect us from ever having to experience any of the above.

Vilolent offenders like rapist, murderers, and child molesters should fall under the three strikes law! I want to add that I have had a gun aimed at my head before and it is a very frightening experience. Unfortunately, this was not done by just the common everyday citizen that passes you by on the street but by an officer, who definitely did not conduct himself in a proper manner, when he stopped me for a traffic ticket!

[Beachhouse]

I don't think there should be a three strikes law. And I don't agree with singling out people's crimes as worse than others. I do think people that purposefully set it to harm others should have harsher punishments than others. Like jack the ripper should get life. I don't know enough about other types of crimes to even speculate if they should or shouldnt but I'd prefer if people can get chances and learn how to become better. I may be idealistic but I don't like the idea of locking most the people that are away for life.

Also how can you take someone off the streets before they commit the crime. Indecent exposure isn't a reason for life in prison, either is whatever the guy did before he graduated to possibly using a gun. That's saying your going to put them away because they "might" do those things down the road. At least this is how this sounds as I read it and it's late so forgive me if I read it wrong.

[Rachel C]

With Kyle he totally believes that he deserves life in prison ( murder) me on the other hand have my doubts.
I'm not going to go into specifics about his crime but it was definitely not a crime of passion. It was based on an antidepressant that was given to him as a child that made him snap. You don't do what he did when you're thinking sane and rational. He even went to the dr the day before and told the doctors he was having homicidal thoughts and instead of taking him seriously and monitoring him they upped his dosage and sent him out the door!
Do i think he deserved a slap on the hand ,no but did he deserve life? In my heart I don't think so. I'm sure that many people disagree with me and I feel for the victims families but Kyle shouldnt have been the only one led responsible for his crime...think about it.

[IrishFire]

Anne, I can not even imagine the what you experienced. You must have been terrorized! I can only imagine what your loved ones went through. They must have felt impotent, especially when your assailant was someone who is supposed to serve and protect! I am truly sorry you had to go through that.

Beachhouse, I do feel that one crime is worse than another. I would much rather live next to a guy who stole a flat screen from Wal-Mart (there was a woman who did that here. Kinda crazy to steal a large ticket item from someplace that has more security than most police stations), then to living next door to someone who pulled a gun on an innocent citizen for the contents of their wallet, not knowing if it was $5.00 or $500.00.

And I definitely believe in second chances, I am not the same person I was in high school, I'm not even the same person I was 5 yrs ago! But, how many chances are they entitled to? In my opinion, it's a crime that the PTB think that the answer to the over crowding in the prison system is to build more prisons, rather than provide programs to not only address their underlying issues (there is a huge drug related population in prison. They steal, by whatever means, to support their drug habits), or they offer no educational training. You take a 17 (or 30 or...) year old, who was standing on a corner, making more money in one day then most of us make in a week, and let him walk out of the gate with no alternatives but to work for minimum wage, putting in 40 hours a week or go back to that corner. I know what I'd choose.

And, research shows (I will post the url as soon as I find it), that someone who has "gotten away" with their crime, more often than not, escalate, particularly when substance abuse is the underlying cause. We can try to change the system that "houses" these people, but until then, how do we deal with those who continue to break the laws? Ignore them until they face a victim who resist, and out of pride (sadly that happens, most often when they have a partner), or desperation, they use the gun? Do we wait until the guy in the park decides that "watching" the child isn't enough anymore? Peeping in the windows is no longer satisfying, so he lays in wait until the single mother puts her children to bed, then crawls through the window while she showers, and another victim becomes a statistic.

I don't have all the answers, heck, I don't even know all the questions, but I know the system is broke. And, it shames me to say that I never really "cared" or was even aware of the failure of the DOC, until it touched my life.

We come to PTO for support. MANY, of our brothers and sisters here got their education the way that I did. Hopefully, we take advantage of this time by trying to change the wrong. Otherwise, all of this heartache is for nothing.
Sorry for the endless post. :-)

Beachhouse, I have always respected and admired your strength and opinions here on PTO. God bless us all as we endure this nightmare.

[IrishFire]

Rachel, we posted at the same time, but wanted to respond, because you make a valid point. If your man crime is in direct correlation with the medication, I'm not sure if he deserves to be in prison at all. His criminal background, if any, may have played a role in his sentencing (not that I agree, but w/the information given here it's difficult to know), particularly when it comes to the discussion of the 3 strikes law.

You may want to consider a civil lawsuit, against the doctor (and I use that terms loosely), who increased your man's dosage when he reported homicidal side affects. The drug company may also be held liable.

(off topic, you may be able to Google the name of the drug and "class action lawsuit." There may be similar cases as yours.

[Anne Morris 87]

Originally Posted by IrishFire

Anne, I can not even imagine the what you experienced. You must have been terrorized! I can only imagine what your loved ones went through. They must have felt impotent, especially when your assailant was someone who is supposed to serve and protect! I am truly sorry you had to go through that.

Thank you, Irishfire, for you sympathy!

[Anne Morris 87]

Originally Posted by Rachel C

With Kyle he totally believes that he deserves life in prison ( murder) me on the other hand have my doubts.
I'm not going to go into specifics about his crime but it was definitely not a crime of passion. It was based on an antidepressant that was given to him as a child that made him snap. You don't do what he did when you're thinking sane and rational. He even went to the dr the day before and told the doctors he was having homicidal thoughts and instead of taking him seriously and monitoring him they upped his dosage and sent him out the door!
Do i think he deserved a slap on the hand ,no but did he deserve life? In my heart I don't think so. I'm sure that many people disagree with me and I feel for the victims families but Kyle shouldnt have been the only one led responsible for his crime...think about it.

I am terribly sorry to hear about what happened to Kyle! The Doctors most certainly did, do him wrong by increasing his dosage, after he share with them that he was having "homicidal thoughts," and I do feel that it would be in his best interest to seek legal counsel. I am sorry that he received a life sentence and I hope that things get better. Hang in there.

[gimava]

[quote=Anne M[CENTER] [/center]orris 87;6770925]I, really cannot explain whay I have always felt this way since I was twelve years, but I have always felt that the sentence the does fit the charges.

How do you feel about your loved one receiving a life sentence for what they did? Was Justice served, when your loved one receive

depending on the color of your skin decides how much time you serve that's the reality of the legal system I feel bad it usually exceeds the time that many more fortunate people would get I plan on filing writ of habeas corpus for my man because I feel that at a minimum needs to be looked at in his case there is case law that says determinate sentencin is illegal if the judge uses the upper sentence term I write court reports so that's my opportunity to advocate for those that don't know how to maneuver through court in my mans case the supreme court ruled that there has to be a jury trial in cases where the upper term sentence is used I work for a system also and I have seen first hand how people are treated I right court report and get to advocate for others now I am gonna do the same for my man

[Anne Morris 87]

Originally Posted by Anne Morris 87

I, really cannot explain why I have always felt this way since I was twelve years, but I have always felt that the sentence does not fit the charges.

This is a correction of the original posting for this message! Sorry

[Beachhouse]

Originally Posted by IrishFire

Anne, I can not even imagine the what you experienced. You must have been terrorized! I can only imagine what your loved ones went through. They must have felt impotent, especially when your assailant was someone who is supposed to serve and protect! I am truly sorry you had to go through that.

Beachhouse, I do feel that one crime is worse than another. I would much rather live next to a guy who stole a flat screen from Wal-Mart (there was a woman who did that here. Kinda crazy to steal a large ticket item from someplace that has more security than most police stations), then to living next door to someone who pulled a gun on an innocent citizen for the contents of their wallet, not knowing if it was $5.00 or $500.00.

And I definitely believe in second chances, I am not the same person I was in high school, I'm not even the same person I was 5 yrs ago! But, how many chances are they entitled to? In my opinion, it's a crime that the PTB think that the answer to the over crowding in the prison system is to build more prisons, rather than provide programs to not only address their underlying issues (there is a huge drug related population in prison. They steal, by whatever means, to support their drug habits), or they offer no educational training. You take a 17 (or 30 or...) year old, who was standing on a corner, making more money in one day then most of us make in a week, and let him walk out of the gate with no alternatives but to work for minimum wage, putting in 40 hours a week or go back to that corner. I know what I'd choose.

And, research shows (I will post the url as soon as I find it), that someone who has "gotten away" with their crime, more often than not, escalate, particularly when substance abuse is the underlying cause. We can try to change the system that "houses" these people, but until then, how do we deal with those who continue to break the laws? Ignore them until they face a victim who resist, and out of pride (sadly that happens, most often when they have a partner), or desperation, they use the gun? Do we wait until the guy in the park decides that "watching" the child isn't enough anymore? Peeping in the windows is no longer satisfying, so he lays in wait until the single mother puts her children to bed, then crawls through the window while she showers, and another victim becomes a statistic.

I don't have all the answers, heck, I don't even know all the questions, but I know the system is broke. And, it shames me to say that I never really "cared" or was even aware of the failure of the DOC, until it touched my life.

We come to PTO for support. MANY, of our brothers and sisters here got their education the way that I did. Hopefully, we take advantage of this time by trying to change the wrong. Otherwise, all of this heartache is for nothing.
Sorry for the endless post. :-)

Beachhouse, I have always respected and admired your strength and opinions here on PTO. God bless us all as we endure this nightmare.

I completely think that for 99.9% of the people in prison better programs and intensive programs could and would be a far better answer to prison. It drives me insane that they put a kid in juvenile hall then maybe at 18 they end up in prison and they are put with the 26 yr olds that been in and out since 18. And with the 40 yr olds and so on that have been in and out. What are they exposing these young 18yr olds or even first time offenders to by doing this? They are not teaching the young ones how to be a productive member of society, they are perpetuating the cycle. They will learn how prison works and how to get by in their but they won't learn how to be productive and contributing members of society out here. I personally think first time offenders and young new or newer offenders should not be with the habitual offenders. Unless the older offenders have been trained and taught with programs to instruct the young ones how to prepare for their return to real life. Maybe lifers mentoring guys I don't know but its like you take the same path to work every day and always trip on that darn lose stone. Do you really think one day you won't trip? The stone won't be lose? No, unless you drastically change your path it's the same outcome each and every time. Same with prison.take someone take their freedoms and life away and not replace it with the outcome or options you want them to have and you get a never ending cycle. I hate it!

I never knew about any of this until it touched my life and someone I love. I feel bad about it but now I do share the things I've learned and it breaks my heart.

[Anne Morris 87]

I agree with you 100 percent and thank you for posting this message!

[Sadie1984]

I posted this on another thread, but I think any "mandatory" laws are rediculous. Every single case should be looked at independently and judged based on his or her actions. I have a friend who was charged with 2nd degree murder so he received life without parole at the age of 19. If you just look at those facts, you get one picture; however, the full picture is that 2 friends called him to go with them to go on a drug run which he shouldn't have done but he did. Then they pulled over to use whatever they got and the two guys got out and went ran to a store and shot 2 people. Even though the evidence proved that he did not have anything to do with the murder/robbery or knowledge of the event that was going to take place because of the mandatory charge of 2nd degree murder he received the mandatory LWOP sentence. Every person involved should be held responsible for his or her own actions and their sentences should follow according to that.

[uk599905]

Originally Posted by Sadie1984

I posted this on another thread, but I think any "mandatory" laws are rediculous. Every single case should be looked at independently and judged based on his or her actions. I have a friend who was charged with 2nd degree murder so he received life without parole at the age of 19. If you just look at those facts, you get one picture; however, the full picture is that 2 friends called him to go with them to go on a drug run which he shouldn't have done but he did. Then they pulled over to use whatever they got and the two guys got out and went ran to a store and shot 2 people. Even though the evidence proved that he did not have anything to do with the murder/robbery or knowledge of the event that was going to take place because of the mandatory charge of 2nd degree murder he received the mandatory LWOP sentence. Every person involved should be held responsible for his or her own actions and their sentences should follow according to that.

I see you're pretty new to this site, with only 6 posts.

Firstly, welcome to PTO

Secondly, and more importantly, you say "he received life without parole at the age of 19"... was he under 18 when the crime happened? I know this sounds stupid, but it could be that he received LWOP at 19.. but was under 18 when the crime happened. If so, it's now un-constitutional to imprison minors to LWOP for a crime they didn't actually participate in.. (and yeah.. I know... it's f*cking ridiculous to even say that...but it's far too frequent an event that those "along for the ride" get LWOP even though the has no knowledge of a crime in progress/conspiracy/ or intent)

This really isn't the thread to discuss your friends LWOP. I hope you start a new thread. And, again.. welcome.

[JKB's Girl]

He earned his way inside the fences, no doubt about it, but........does it do any good to say the deserved what they got? Does it change the fact that whether serving life with or without parole that many have shown that they are deserving of a second chance, not in my mind, but in so many that are uneducated about the system it does. There is much too much mindsets of lock them up and throw away the key, and much of that thought process begins with thinking that the sentence fits the crime and never thinking outside of those lines.

My lifer like so many others went inside at a very young age....but because he was 18 he was considered an adult. So ridiculous, I don't know of any 18 year old that I know that thinks like an adult.

Anyway, does his sentence fit the charge, yes, it does.

[gingers]

Originally Posted by Beachhouse

I completely think that for 99.9% of the people in prison better programs and intensive programs could and would be a far better answer to prison. It drives me insane that they put a kid in juvenile hall then maybe at 18 they end up in prison and they are put with the 26 yr olds that been in and out since 18. And with the 40 yr olds and so on that have been in and out. What are they exposing these young 18yr olds or even first time offenders to by doing this? They are not teaching the young ones how to be a productive member of society, they are perpetuating the cycle. They will learn how prison works and how to get by in their but they won't learn how to be productive and contributing members of society out here. I personally think first time offenders and young new or newer offenders should not be with the habitual offenders. Unless the older offenders have been trained and taught with programs to instruct the young ones how to prepare for their return to real life. Maybe lifers mentoring guys I don't know but its like you take the same path to work every day and always trip on that darn lose stone. Do you really think one day you won't trip? The stone won't be lose? No, unless you drastically change your path it's the same outcome each and every time. Same with prison.take someone take their freedoms and life away and not replace it with the outcome or options you want them to have and you get a never ending cycle. I hate it!

I never knew about any of this until it touched my life and someone I love. I feel bad about it but now I do share the things I've learned and it breaks my heart.

I wandered over here to read some of the threads, and I thought about a conversation I had today with my LO. He spoke about his time done, and said that he just 'couldn't believe that places like that exist'. He started talking about how there just has to be some better way. There is no rehabilitation and no help, treatment, nothing.

Maybe we wouldn't need a three strikes law if a little investment went into working towards keeping recidivism in check.

[Beachhouse]

Originally Posted by gingers

I wandered over here to read some of the threads, and I thought about a conversation I had today with my LO. He spoke about his time done, and said that he just 'couldn't believe that places like that exist'. He started talking about how there just has to be some better way. There is no rehabilitation and no help, treatment, nothing.

Maybe we wouldn't need a three strikes law if a little investment went into working towards keeping recidivism in check.

I obviously agree completely. It would save money in the long run. Which is the only way anyone would listen I think.

[classycrazy]

Absolutely NOT! My husband got a life sentence for robery of an occupied dwelling. The dwelling was his OWN HOME!

[IrishFire]

I hope this is on topic, as a fan of MSNBC LOCKUP program, and the torrential rains we had this weekend, I watched HOURS of Lockup. Yesterday they replayed Lockup Abroad. Places that you would think would have the most deplorable conditions, Russia, Israel, Poland, were amazing. I'm not talking about the facilities, but I'll get to that in a minute, the way the prisoners were treted, regardless of the crime or sentences. At all of them the STAFF was held to a much higher standard. Prisoners were DESERVING of respect. (and the number of staff assaults were so low they kinda looked at one another, "when was that, 5 years ago?" There was less violence throughout the prison period. Private visits were a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT given to every inmate who was well behaved, etc, and a life sentence was rarely life. One guy was very flippantly talking about the murders, and torture he used to keep his drug business booming. Suddenly, a guard shut them down and pulled the dude aside and told him (off camera) that his attitude may cause him to never be released. Camera's back on and he was much more subdued. Even looking at the guard from time to time, looking for guidance. Can you imagine that in any DOC here? Certain deserving inmates were allowed to go home for weekends. The biggest thing is that they do rehabilitation, not housing. Programs are available, guard worked with inmates. Very little knives were found, and when they found the few, they were taken but not written up. They were used for food preparation.

The facilities were not dark scary places. One had a Zen garden and it and the inmates looked very peaceful. Peacocks roamed freely in one yard. There was a swimming pool at one. And even in the Supermax, while every inch was visible to staff, there was a decent sized bathroom w/showers and a door.
I realize smaller countries, less inmates they can do more, or if we did more, could we have less to house? After the last Abroad episode, they showed the preview for the next Lockup here and the difference was so overwhelming. Fights, shackles, no grass, no trees, no wonder these guys stay amped. The noise alone was astounding. And the very first part showed a reality nasty c/o disrespecting an inmate, and the inmate gave it right back.

I swear, if I thought it would impact our prisons here, I would gladly make a monthly donation for every warden, in every prison, in America to see how well rehabilitation actually works. We are quick to judge the inmates who keep returning to prison time after time, where do we accept some of the responsibility? Insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. Maybe we, as a society need to lead the way into a new DOC; this one is damn well flawed.

[IrishFire]

I am thinking this is off the OPs question. I'm not sure what to do with the post on my cell phone. Moderator, I bow to your expertise. Sorry...

[Beachhouse]

Originally Posted by IrishFire

I hope this is on topic, as a fan of MSNBC LOCKUP program, and the torrential rains we had this weekend, I watched HOURS of Lockup. Yesterday they replayed Lockup Abroad. Places that you would think would have the most deplorable conditions, Russia, Israel, Poland, were amazing. I'm not talking about the facilities, but I'll get to that in a minute, the way the prisoners were treted, regardless of the crime or sentences. At all of them the STAFF was held to a much higher standard. Prisoners were DESERVING of respect. (and the number of staff assaults were so low they kinda looked at one another, "when was that, 5 years ago?" There was less violence throughout the prison period. Private visits were a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT given to every inmate who was well behaved, etc, and a life sentence was rarely life. One guy was very flippantly talking about the murders, and torture he used to keep his drug business booming. Suddenly, a guard shut them down and pulled the dude aside and told him (off camera) that his attitude may cause him to never be released. Camera's back on and he was much more subdued. Even looking at the guard from time to time, looking for guidance. Can you imagine that in any DOC here? Certain deserving inmates were allowed to go home for weekends. The biggest thing is that they do rehabilitation, not housing. Programs are available, guard worked with inmates. Very little knives were found, and when they found the few, they were taken but not written up. They were used for food preparation.

The facilities were not dark scary places. One had a Zen garden and it and the inmates looked very peaceful. Peacocks roamed freely in one yard. There was a swimming pool at one. And even in the Supermax, while every inch was visible to staff, there was a decent sized bathroom w/showers and a door.
I realize smaller countries, less inmates they can do more, or if we did more, could we have less to house? After the last Abroad episode, they showed the preview for the next Lockup here and the difference was so overwhelming. Fights, shackles, no grass, no trees, no wonder these guys stay amped. The noise alone was astounding. And the very first part showed a reality nasty c/o disrespecting an inmate, and the inmate gave it right back.

I swear, if I thought it would impact our prisons here, I would gladly make a monthly donation for every warden, in every prison, in America to see how well rehabilitation actually works. We are quick to judge the inmates who keep returning to prison time after time, where do we accept some of the responsibility? Insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. Maybe we, as a society need to lead the way into a new DOC; this one is damn well flawed.

I wish our country would look at ways to try those things that work in other countries.