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EddysWife · #1 09-25-2004, 09:36 AM

I know how I feel. They're abominable.

I was reading an article out of Ohio about why they refuse to implement conjugal visitation there; I would assume the same old tired arguments are what we would hear in Minnesota as well - worrying about pregnancy, STD transmission, smuggling contraband, expenses involved in setting up "trailer" facilities.

But somehow, some way, the states that DO have trailers got them. So it really isn't THAT outlandish of an idea that perhaps we could work toward trailers ourselves, or at least visiting conditions that do more to promote healthy family relations than what is currently the status quo. I'd like to write to whoever is in charge of visiting policies in Minnesota, and to start with, get someone to tell me how on earth the current visiting rules are in any way promoting anything close to family relations. Ask them their take on the trailer visits in place in some other states and what makes Minnesota so different that we cannot follow a successful model such as what's in place in New York.

I just really don't understand the current visitation rules (brief hug and kiss, then no contact...no bathroom breaks even for little children....no vending machines, no toys, no NOTHING) and I would like to see those of us who visit facilities in Minnesota speak up and work to make conditions more of a promotion of healthy family bonding. Thoughts, anyone?

FrozenInMinn · #2 09-25-2004, 12:04 PM

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear. I do agree with you 100% that we need change within the visiting.

The sad part is, the people we need to change the policy are going to be

1) Commissioner of Corrections can change any policy

2) she may have to go through legislation for that, and
she is going to have to get OSI (office of special investigations and security) to
go with it. And sadly they don't want to endanger their job, and they own't put
their own neck out on the line for anyone much less their jobs. Minnesota has a lot
of issues with contraband coming in and a lot of it comes in through employees be it
state or Best Foods workers. To have special visits like you are saying would be
even more of a risk to promote contraband coming in to the facilities.
Sadly, I don't ever see it happening, but the best way to go about it honestly
would be to contact your local state representative in your district and push him.
I just don't see them doing it, especially if they do it in one facility then they would have to do it in all of em within the state, and they would be opening a can of worms of lawsuits if they didn't do it in all.

Visitation used to be a whole lot more lax, You used to be able to hug and kiss your visitor, hold their hand during the visit. But you can thank those visitors before us for demolishing this, they took advantage of it. The sad part is that when the DOC does have something good going on, it only takes the actions of a few to try to exploit it and do wrong, to make them take it all away. That is the reason why visitors can not use the restrooms now. Visitors were planting contraband within the restrooms, the inmate cleaner would come in and get the contraband, bring it to the inmate, (of course he always gets his cut too) and thus we have the new policy. A lot has been taken away within the Minnesota department of corrections, and Sadly but truely it isn't going to be the end of the taking, its only the beggining, Minnesota is a good place within the US to do time, but it is only going to get worse...

Peter

EddysWife · #3 09-25-2004, 12:19 PM

Peter:

Maybe those before us took advantage and thus the DOC clamped down. But no one can tell me that New York, Mississippi, California, etc, hell, EVERY other state, did not and does not have this problem. Yet their visiting conditions are light years better than ours, up to and including FRP's. So how do THEY deal with the heightened security risk, without blowing it for everyone else?

The whole contraband thing, has far more to do with state and food service employees than it does visitors. So, an inmate cleans the visitation restroom. Now that right there is a no-brainer. Don't HAVE inmates cleaning bathrooms that are accessible to visitors. One hole plugged.

It comes back to, how do other states that HAVE FRP's deal with it? I find it hard to believe that it's a working project in one state and completely impossible in another. I would imagine that if an FRP was found to be a source of contraband, the inmate loses FRP's and the visitor(s) banned from the facility for a period of time.

I'm sick and tired of the same old excuses that Minnesota keeps pulling up for why the visit policy here is so strict, and yes, it IS only going to get worse until people quit being complacent and saying "oh well, that's the way it is". Because it doesn't HAVE to be that way. Perhaps change won't occur during OUR tenure within the system-Eddy has 6 years left- but perhaps starting to speak out now will enable families down the road to have the visits that 49 other states take for granted, and maybe even FRP's that a few states are enlightened enough to have.

PatitoDeHule · #4 09-26-2004, 01:46 AM

Go get 'em, Kim.

rottn · #5 09-26-2004, 03:29 AM

Kim,
The Commissioner of Corrections need to hear these reasons. They are very valid and if you were to write to her and state the same issues you have stated here, there might be a chance that the matter will be looked into. If you think you might want to do this, let either Peter or myself know and we will get you the mailing information.

EddysWife · #6 09-26-2004, 08:09 AM

Lisa, I've got the bit in my teeth, and between this issue and demanding the return of a Parole Board in Minnesota I'm going full speed ahead. I've never been one to contact senators and representatives, but being the wife of a non violent drug offender certainly has lit the fire of the activist within me. I would love to get whatever contact information you and Peter could provide. I'm going to work up a petition and ask everyone to sign it. I'm going to write the media. I'm going to research visitation policies in all 50 states to draw up the comparison to ours. I'm going to thoroughly research the way in which FRPs were enacted in the states that do have them and find out exactly how they are run and how they deal with the "risks" involved in such a program. Then I'll put it together and present it to whomever I need to, and keep presenting it until they hear me.
A very good friend of mine has an appointment with a MN-DOC warden next month and will be discussing these issues with him as well.
I do not accept "won't happen" as an answer. I do not accept "I don't see it happening". They probably said the same thing in the mid 1800's regarding freeing the slaves, women's rights, and the automobile.

Daviewmaster · #7 09-26-2004, 08:26 AM

I would love to help out in any way I can, Kim! Let me know if you need anything, I will let you know if I find anything. By the way, you should research how even Shakopee runs their visits. When I was in college I did a piece on Shakopee and if I remember right, they have a program where the kids can stay over! Don't quote me on that, it was awhile ago...

PatitoDeHule · #8 09-26-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddysWife

Lisa, I've got the bit in my teeth, and between this issue and demanding the return of a Parole Board in Minnesota I'm going full speed ahead. I've never been one to contact senators and representatives, but being the wife of a non violent drug offender certainly has lit the fire of the activist within me. I would love to get whatever contact information you and Peter could provide. I'm going to work up a petition and ask everyone to sign it. I'm going to write the media. I'm going to research visitation policies in all 50 states to draw up the comparison to ours. I'm going to thoroughly research the way in which FRPs were enacted in the states that do have them and find out exactly how they are run and how they deal with the "risks" involved in such a program. Then I'll put it together and present it to whomever I need to, and keep presenting it until they hear me.
A very good friend of mine has an appointment with a MN-DOC warden next month and will be discussing these issues with him as well.
I do not accept "won't happen" as an answer. I do not accept "I don't see it happening". They probably said the same thing in the mid 1800's regarding freeing the slaves, women's rights, and the automobile.

You know I'm with you on this, Kim, even if Minnesota visitation rights aren't my top priority (as you know, my kid's in the federal pokey).

The controlling regulations can be found here:
http://www.doc.state.mn.us/DOcpolicy...302.1001rw.htm and here:
http://www.doc.state.mn.us/DOCpolicy2/html/DPW_Display.asp?Opt=302.100.htm

As you can see, these are DOC policies controlled by the Commissioner of DOC. The corresponding statutes (referenced int he links) are very broad. One possible way to work on this will be through the Commissioner. It may help to enlist Pawlenty's aid in that, but I don't think we're likely to right now.

Another route is to talk to our representatives and senators. I haven't got any response yet from our senators. As I've mentioned, I have talked to our rep, and he is interested. We will meet shortly after the election mainly to discuss the implications of the fund shortage.

My younger daughter also has a date with our rep's opponent for this election at a restaurant bar at MOA. Mostly social, of course, but he has her list of questions on this subject and they are going to discuss it.

I have no hope for the current legislature, and very little for the next two years. But stay with me and let's find about getting in touch with your rep and senator.

Take care.

FrozenInMinn · #9 09-26-2004, 12:19 PM

I am on board as well, You are 100% right about other states having this and MN should as well. It is a cause worth fighting for, I would like to be able to change visiting in general. There are so many things in general wrong with the way visitation is held.
The visitor nor the inmate should not be punished and have a visit cancelled just because one or the other needs to use the restroom. And to promote a healthy relatoinship inmates and visitors should be able to have some physical contact. Thats just to name a few....
I do think like I said before that the way to start, or where to start is going to be with the commissioner, and the state reps.
Daviewmaster is correct in that shakopee has a visiting policy like no other. I was last informed that shakopee did infact have a visiting schedule with their children and did have overnight visits. I will try and make a phone call this week to find out if this in fact is still currently going on.

Here's a place to start though

Joan Fabian, Commsisioner of Corrections
1450 Energy Park Drive
Suite 200
Saint Paul, MN 55108-5219

(651) 642-0282 Commissioners Office
(651) 642-0414 Fax Number for Commissioners Office

May want to look into the Policy and Legal Services Office for DOC Policy's. I'm not for sure if they deal with all the DOC Policy's but I did find this number for them

Policy and Legal Services
651-642-0297

The Minnesota DOC main switchboard phone number and fax is

651-642-0200 Phone
651-642-0223 Fax

If you need any other phone numbers or addresses please let me know by either posting here or PM me.

Peter

PatitoDeHule · #10 09-26-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Haugen

Daviewmaster is correct in that shakopee has a visiting policy like no other. I was last informed that shakopee did infact have a visiting schedule with their children and did have overnight visits. I will try and make a phone call this week to find out if this in fact is still currently going on
Peter

Shakopee's policy comes under a diffferent reg than the rest of the system:

Shakopee's policy
It also has a separate citation in the statutes (I think it's sec. 241.01, but it will be referenced in the link, anyway.

EddysWife · #11 09-26-2004, 01:16 PM

Bob: The links to the DOC's policies and directives aren't coming up for me, I keep getting errors

EddysWife · #12 09-26-2004, 02:02 PM

Okay I went to the DOC's website and found the policies and directives section and read through them. It certainly does seem as though Shakopee falls under a different category than the other facilities, as it pertains to visitation, namely with children. Hmmmmmm......

PatitoDeHule · #13 09-26-2004, 02:19 PM

Sorry, Kim. I see that you're right. I don't know how to link (if it's even possible) to their catalog search. It has some PHP options I don't understand.
Here's how you can do it:

Select the link:
DOC Policy Manual Search

Under Catalogs, select "Policies"
Under Match Type, select "Exactly"
Under Search for, enter "visit" (without quotes)
<enter>

That will give you a list of about 30 hits. For regular visiting stuff, click on "302.1001 - visiting" and on "302.100 - visiting"

For the separate Shakopee regs (if you care), click on "204.0901SHK - Parenting/Family Program"

I notice that one is signed by the Warden Dingle, whereas the visiting policy one is signed by Erik Skon, Assistant commissioner. Also, the 302.1001 only applies to Red Wing and is signed by Supt. Zanders. This would suggest that the Wardens have the power to override DOC. This might be something else I can ask Warden Crist when I talk to him.

OMG, I've got so much research still to do on this.

EddysWife · #14 09-26-2004, 02:55 PM

Got it, Bob, thanks! I wasn't getting nearly that many results when I ran my search....yes there is a TON of research to do. Wish my dang printer worked. Going to get my daughter's 3 ring binder out (Lord knows SHE isn't using it! ) and try to get printer going so I can get some material together and organized. Then I'm going to gather as much information as I can from other states and their visitation policies and how they differ from ours.
Probably a good thing I am unemployed at the moment, this is going to be a full-time job in and of itself LOL!

PatitoDeHule · #15 09-26-2004, 04:49 PM

Kim, if you can get all that into a Word doc or some such, e-mail it to me. I'd like to see it too.

EddysWife · #16 09-26-2004, 06:48 PM

What were you interested in seeing, Bob? The stuff about different states' visiting policies? I've gotten info on Medium in W VA and Texas thus far LOL.....

PatitoDeHule · #17 09-26-2004, 07:51 PM

Don't do it special for me, but if you collect all the states visiting regulations, I'd love to see the comparison if you can e-mail it to me.

Here's a resource if you really want to do it:
State Corrections Agency Directory Website

Daviewmaster · #18 09-27-2004, 05:28 AM

I would love to see this bullsh*t stop--my husband got in trouble in visiting just last week--for having his feet on my chair! There is just one male guard who is really petty about this stuff--at Faribault, it seems to all depend on who is working--my son sometimes can even sit on his dad's lap, and he's 10, while other times he can't even sit on the chair next to him! It just depends on who is behind the desk! How's that for regulation! I would get more consistency flipping a coin!

EddysWife · #19 09-27-2004, 06:14 AM

Tina, is Larry in medium at Faribault or minimum? Just wondering about the visiting rules in minimum here.....is it essentially the same as in medium,close, and max? or are you allowed a bit more intimacy, is it better for the kids. Sounds like it's not much better *sigh*

EddysWife · #20 09-27-2004, 06:54 AM

Bob, I will definitely share what I find out about other states. This morning I've gotten info from California, level 4, and they're a lot more lenient than we are too. Of course Cali gets trailer visits too, for inmates not serving a life sentence. The states' DOC websites, as a rule, do not have much information on visiting rules as far as the "thou shalt nots" - just on hours and check-in procedures and that sort of thing. I am pretty sure I'll get more information from family members who've experienced visitation firsthand.

JAM29 · #21 09-27-2004, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddysWife

I know how I feel. They're abominable.

I was reading an article out of Ohio about why they refuse to implement conjugal visitation there; I would assume the same old tired arguments are what we would hear in Minnesota as well - worrying about pregnancy, STD transmission, smuggling contraband, expenses involved in setting up "trailer" facilities.

But somehow, some way, the states that DO have trailers got them. So it really isn't THAT outlandish of an idea that perhaps we could work toward trailers ourselves, or at least visiting conditions that do more to promote healthy family relations than what is currently the status quo. I'd like to write to whoever is in charge of visiting policies in Minnesota, and to start with, get someone to tell me how on earth the current visiting rules are in any way promoting anything close to family relations. Ask them their take on the trailer visits in place in some other states and what makes Minnesota so different that we cannot follow a successful model such as what's in place in New York.

I just really don't understand the current visitation rules (brief hug and kiss, then no contact...no bathroom breaks even for little children....no vending machines, no toys, no NOTHING) and I would like to see those of us who visit facilities in Minnesota speak up and work to make conditions more of a promotion of healthy family bonding. Thoughts, anyone?

I would like to see trailer visits. what are the types of vists that are allowed and what do i face at visitation time from st.cloud to the other prison because im looking at 5yrs.you can also pm me.

EddysWife · #22 09-27-2004, 09:08 AM

St. Cloud is the receiving center, where you'll get your orientation, custody classification, all that good stuff. Visits will be allowed in St. Cloud and they are as I've described....your contact visits consist of a 1 to 2 hour time frame...I think that applies in St. Cloud anyways as it does in Rush City, Lino Lakes, etc. Physical contact is limited to a brief hug and kiss on the cheek at the beginning and end of the visit. Other than that, it's hands off. I have never visited in St. Cloud, but I would guess the seating is the same - sitting across from the visitor, aisle style, no table between you. No vending machines, no bathroom breaks or the visit will be terminated. Children have to adhere to a very strict code of conduct, which I think is about the worst part of it, because children are CHILDREN and don't comprehend the boundaries very well, especially toddlers and preschoolers.
It sucks, but it's what we have to deal with. And it's the reason I'm taking on the issue to try to implement change.

FrozenInMinn · #23 09-27-2004, 10:18 AM

I know when i was at stillwater minimum before i went to ICWC I noticed that visits were much more lax, Holding hands, sit next to each other, you can even order pizza and have it delivered for your visit. Quite different from anything Ive ever seen within the DOC...

EddysWife · #24 09-27-2004, 10:28 AM

Now that's more like a visit, Peter!!!! It's funny, the more I talk with other family members/friends of inmates around the country, the more I see the inadequacy within our own system and the unfairness of it all. I would expect minimum to have a more lax visitation, of course, but when I speak with someone from another state and their maximum security prison visitation policies are more like our minimums, it boggles my mind!
I'm not sure what all the differences are between level 1 minimum and level 2 minimum, other than one I think is fenced and the other isn't.....

PatitoDeHule · #25 09-27-2004, 10:50 AM

It does sound like the DOC regulations are enforced quite differently from facility to facility, and of course there are going to be differences from C/O to C/O in how they enforce them. You know, some of them are actually human.

We notice this in the fed system too. My daughter is allowed physical contact (no sex, of course) throughout the visit. BUT she is allowed to use the restroom once an hour on the hour only. She is not allowed to feed the baby. In our August visit one C/O objected because the baby shook a rattle and babbled (just babbled). Too much noise. Next day, the baby had a good visit (we can visit Friday, Saturday, and Sunday--3 visits each trip). Colette fed him and changed him--both against the rules. It was the first time she'd ever changed her own baby.

Kim, apparently in some states there's a DOC policy manual that pretty well spells out the visiting regs like in Minnesota. In others there seems to be no such thing or they give very general guidelines and apparently the facilities do their own. Note that in Minnesota both Red Wing and Shakopee have their own regs.

Peter, your comment about the pizza surprises me. The DOC regs seem to spell stuff out much more specifically than that. Does Stillwater have a different set of regs that aren't in the policy manual? This is the sort of thing I am interested in finding out before I get into some deeper discussions about this stuff.